Sleeving an LTX block ?? 
Sleeving an LTX block ??
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,157
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From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
It can be done, i have not used it on a performance application, but the motor is still running fine. In my case the rest of the cyclenders were worn so they installed the sleeve then bored them all .030 over. Have no idea of the limits.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 323
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From: NW AR
It can be done just fine, on a stock 95 LT1 corvette block there was .140" wall thickness between cylinders and .240" thickness the other way. My machinist uses two different styles of liners, one is thicker than the other. I wouldn't sweat it too much if you have to get one done, I had to because the block had sat for years with water in the cylinder and had pitted past .040".
I built a 396cu in LT1 with one sleeved cylinder and I'm not worried at all about it, the machining operation didn't get into the water jacket, the bottom of the sleeve is sitting on a lip, the entire sleeve is press fit in, and the head is bolted to the top of the sleeve.
However to quote Reher Morrison:
"To accommodate a sleeve, the cylinder must be bored to a very large size. This leaves the cylinder walls and deck thin. leading to cracks around the head bolt holes. If the boring tool cuts into the water jacket. the deck is no longer supported and the pressed-in sleeve will almost surely leak coolant in the crankcase. For these reasons, we do not consider cylinder sleeving to be an acceptable repair procedure."
Granted they are building race engines, so I don't think the quote fully applies to you or I building a street car, if you want to know what the sleeve size is that I used I can give my machinist a ring. Also LS engines are all sleeved so it is not like it is bad thing.
I built a 396cu in LT1 with one sleeved cylinder and I'm not worried at all about it, the machining operation didn't get into the water jacket, the bottom of the sleeve is sitting on a lip, the entire sleeve is press fit in, and the head is bolted to the top of the sleeve.
However to quote Reher Morrison:
"To accommodate a sleeve, the cylinder must be bored to a very large size. This leaves the cylinder walls and deck thin. leading to cracks around the head bolt holes. If the boring tool cuts into the water jacket. the deck is no longer supported and the pressed-in sleeve will almost surely leak coolant in the crankcase. For these reasons, we do not consider cylinder sleeving to be an acceptable repair procedure."
Granted they are building race engines, so I don't think the quote fully applies to you or I building a street car, if you want to know what the sleeve size is that I used I can give my machinist a ring. Also LS engines are all sleeved so it is not like it is bad thing.
TECH Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 420
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From: Kempner, TX
[QUOTE=noice;13977925]However to quote Reher Morrison:
"To accommodate a sleeve, the cylinder must be bored to a very large size. This leaves the cylinder walls and deck thin. leading to cracks around the head bolt holes. If the boring tool cuts into the water jacket. the deck is no longer supported and the pressed-in sleeve will almost surely leak coolant in the crankcase. For these reasons, we do not consider cylinder sleeving to be an acceptable repair procedure."QUOTE]
I'd love to have their book but I just can't come to grips with the cost.
BTW, I just dropped off a LT1 block with them a few days ago. I'm having them give it a thorough going over and machining before I begin a stroker project for my son's 96 Vette.
I'm hoping for 415 CID if the sonic testing supports a .060" over bore. If not I'll go .040".
Jake
"To accommodate a sleeve, the cylinder must be bored to a very large size. This leaves the cylinder walls and deck thin. leading to cracks around the head bolt holes. If the boring tool cuts into the water jacket. the deck is no longer supported and the pressed-in sleeve will almost surely leak coolant in the crankcase. For these reasons, we do not consider cylinder sleeving to be an acceptable repair procedure."QUOTE]
I'd love to have their book but I just can't come to grips with the cost.
BTW, I just dropped off a LT1 block with them a few days ago. I'm having them give it a thorough going over and machining before I begin a stroker project for my son's 96 Vette.
I'm hoping for 415 CID if the sonic testing supports a .060" over bore. If not I'll go .040".
Jake
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 323
Likes: 2
From: NW AR
BTW, I just dropped off a LT1 block with them a few days ago. I'm having them give it a thorough going over and machining before I begin a stroker project for my son's 96 Vette.
I'm hoping for 415 CID if the sonic testing supports a .060" over bore. If not I'll go .040".
Jake
I'm hoping for 415 CID if the sonic testing supports a .060" over bore. If not I'll go .040".
Jake
Also I've gotten a 3.875" crank in the block, but I could have gotten up to a 4" in there. It will take a while to clearance. My machinist charged a flat rate for the work so I ended up getting a good deal. He'll have to massage the following.
Connecting rods:
Bolt heads may have to be machined to be shorter.
May have to buy bolts with a smaller head (ARP2000)
Shoulder of connecting rod may have to be massaged to clear the camshaft lobes
Pistons:
Piston skirt may have to be massaged for the crank clearance.
Camshaft:
If the rods don't come close enough to clearing or you have too much lift on the camshaft you will have to get a smaller base circle camshaft.
Block:
Bottom of the cylinders for the connecting rods.
Oil pan rails for the connecting rods
Oil Pan:
Going to be doing some beating with a hammer on the scraper or grinding.
I know people make ~410cu in LT1s so it'll work.
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I'm not looking for a repair. With the Dart block out the window I'd like to find out what the MAXIMUM size bore I can get away with on an LTX block just for the added cubes. I am looking to pick up some cubes going oversquare with the bore. Right now its .030. My last LTX block was .060 and there was considerable flexing going on all the pinston skirts and walls showed wear in different areas over the first few thousand k as we changed the pos canton pan several times. The shoppe I used charged me for sonic testing which I had asked for and it turned out afterwards that the walls were very very thin. they wanted the car out of the shoppe so they told me it was perfect for a .060 over and slapped it all together. Anyhow I learned and the new motor is planned with a .030 so far. I read somewhere a sleeve was just $100 per cylinder heck I would toss it in a hearbeat if I could get a 4.1 or more sleeve in there.
4.060 was an option if the block checked out only because Im not running a bigger stroke. A 4 inch stroke and forget about it I would never even try it. Going thin with the bore and then putting in a big stroke that increases side loads... sounds like a recipe for oil burning.
4.060 was an option if the block checked out only because Im not running a bigger stroke. A 4 inch stroke and forget about it I would never even try it. Going thin with the bore and then putting in a big stroke that increases side loads... sounds like a recipe for oil burning.
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unfortunately the thought you have isn't going to work. In order to do the sleeve it needs a locating lip at the bottom of the bore and a little bit of cyl. wall to support it. Basically keep it where it belongs. If you go and try to put a 4.100" bore sleeve in it, you've removed too much wall material and have now hit the water jacket. since there really is nothing but a press fit at the bottom of the sleeve, and at the deck surface you now have a leaky crankcase. Not to mention the risk of cracking the deck when you tq down the head bolts. Now i know some sleeves have o-rings at the bottom of the bore to help keep coolant out, but it's a mute point if the deck surface and the sleeve cannot keep the water out... You're almost better getting with a company and having them make you a one off block....or pay big bucks and have one machined out of billet aluminum.....
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 323
Likes: 2
From: NW AR
No if he is chasing horsepower, just run on some 110 octane and get your compression up to 13:1 or so and make a solid roller engine.
Sounds like its not going to work either way. My last build was a mess at 388 ci this time around Im @ 370 ci. I figured a bigger bore might bring me up to a cooler number (lol) 
and help the high rpm power of course.
and help the high rpm power of course. I've been tossing around the plans for a 408, then realized if I offset grind the crank and do honda rod journals it effectively brings it to a 4.12 stroke with a 4.030 bore....you get the magic number 409....something that wasn't done in a camaro.....then it comes down to piston rock in the cyl....that would be the only killer of the engine....
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iTrader: (14)
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Harrison Township, Michigan
Hey... most up on your build when there is more done, sounds really interesting. I have heard of people doing 4xx CI LTXs, but there isn't that much out there on them.
Cool thanks for the input guys. Rpms were the way i always chose to make power (8000 rpm) a bigger bore never hurt anyways. it will remain a 370 ci i have honda journals on a callies magnum xl with more xl done to it. 6.2 billet Carillo rods with a .030 over Mahle. I was going to go .040 over but thicker walls are always good for rpm so i decided to stay .030.
comon dart step up please my cc is waiting.
comon dart step up please my cc is waiting.
