Spiers

iTrader: (7)

Well the springs have been on the car for over a year and about 15k miles and have worked great so far...Ive contacted Lloyd and hoping they will be fine for the 1.7 upgrade

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Thats the thing, the comp 130# that I had on it previously only had 8k mi on them and were rated at .600 lift... with the 1.7's lift was around .570 .580. with the custom xe 230/236, we "assumed" there was room... Lloyd will get ya dialed in tho! Post or pm me what he says please? Im curious to know!

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

How so? how would more lift make power if the heads can't flow it?

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

Good info here...I will be running 1.7s on my 230/236 510/520 cam here soon...I have patriot golds that are good to .660 I'm not sure where you got .675...no biggie just throwing it out there...

Rule of thumb is to stay .025 away from the springs max spring lift...so 510/520 w 1.7 makes it roughly 578/589 so with the gold I will be .070 from bind...I would recommend these spring to anyone Lloyd raved to me about how good they are so that is why I got them....but like you said kinglt I hope they can control the ramp rates.....

Part Number: 109-8501-BSBC

Technical Specs:

Install Height: 1.800"
Max. Valve Spring Lift: 0.660"
Spring Pressure Closed: 155 lbs. @ 1.800"
Spring Pressure Open: 410 lbs. @ 1.140"
Coil Bind: 1.090"
Retainer Material: Titanium

Spring Pressure Open: 375 lbs. @ 1.150"
Coil Bind: 1.090"
Retainer Material: Titanium

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

yea I meant .660 for the extreme golds. They should control the valves just fine... atleast they did for my bros car!
.510 -.520 with 1.7's equals around .570 .580... I thought it was roughly .030 gain in lift for every point increase in rocker ratio. cam card showed .510-.520 w/ 1.5's... .540-.550 w/ 1.6's. anyways close enough.

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

Ok thanks....I wasn't trying to correct you just making sure there wasn't something I was missing......

Thanks....I am def hoping to for the power gain...Looking for bottom 11's next track day all motor....

Maty

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

what heads did your brother have? and do you know what rpm he was shifting at?


Thanks
matt

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Ported stock castings done by Lingenfelter... 2.02 1.60 manley valves, milled 4cc, hand ported, alot better than there old cnc program! He was shifting at 6700. Good luck I think you will hit low 11's!

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

Thanks bud!! I sure hope so....did he see a good improvemnt going to the 1.7 over the 1.6s?

My heads a similar....car went 11.90s already shifting at 5600 because of valve float and a TON of other problems....this was before I switched over to Patriots and efi connection....got to get a tune and head back to the track...

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

Currently I'm on stock springs/rockers/camshaft. I was planning LT4 springs that I have new with 1.6's and the stock cam, but then I also have a spare set of heads that have beehive #26918's on them....so I'm probably going to use those springs and 1.7's instead. I've been advised that the beehives probably will not be enough spring once I swap to the CC503 later if I use the 1.7's...so I will update then.

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

No, those won't work. You will need ones designed for a SBC or LT1. The ratios and stud size may match up, but there are other parameters that don't. For example, I can't use 1.7's made for a Ford on my BBC. There are some exceptions, such as using BBC rockers on 348/409 W-motor big blocks, but those are kinda unique.

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

Yea when you upgrade cams i would def go with the Patriots...they are a great price and quality...

I would use the beehives over the lt4 springs too....


I have some Comp 1.6 Pro Mags for sale with studs if anyone needs a set!!

Matt

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

Although I wouldn't overcam and engine that would see street use, sometimes cams with more lift than the heads appear to accomodate flow wise is beneficial in a race application. Such as classes with stiff head restrictions. You see that alot with claimer drag and dirt track stuff. Alot of them actually "vault" the lifter off the cam to get more lift. It's like controlled valve float. lol Very wierd / technical stuff.

Anyway to answer what you asked, say a head flows 250 @ .400" lift and it increases to 300 @ .600 lift but then just levels out (port stall I think it's called) and hovers around that 300 for .080" to .100" more lift. Well running a cam with more than .600" lift can still be good sometimes because although the heads aren't continueing to increase in flow, they are still flowing that MAX amount longer. PLUS there is the amount of time you are spending in the higher lift ranges below the maximum lift of the cam than you would be with a smaller cam that is taking advantage of those good flow numbers too. I'm not sure I explained that right.

Suppose you wind your engine peaks HP wise at 6,000 rpm exactly....you will almost always run faster if you shift a good bit over that rpm because of the sweet spot it will put you in after the change and the power you are making in the last 1,000 or so rpm before peak power. It's kind of the same thing with the lift and head flow.

Again, it's not how I'd cam my street car, but that is the way I understand it. I'm sure the gurus will expound/correct as necessary.

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

When the time comes for the cam swap I was planning on either the Patriots or the Lunati springs that appear to be very similar. The main difference I see is the Lunatis come with steel retainers instead of titanium and are therefore a little cheaper. I'd rather have the Patriots, but when the time comes my wallet may do the deciding.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Yes the power felt like it peaked slightly quicker, but was alot more violent power range... No data to back anything up because shortly after he installed the patriots springs, the valve seal springs popped off on the driver side... we found some in the oil filter, so he has stepped away from the car for a bit. The tranny is out and heading back to rpm for a freshen... He plans to start working on it again very soon.

Spiers

iTrader: (7)

LE got back with me and said to set the spring up at 1.75-1.74 and get about 155lbs of seat pressure. 135 lbs is not enough for these lobes and a 1.7 above 6000 RPM. Pull the springs and check the height or if for sure they are at 1.8, just slap a .060 shim under them and get them at 1.740.

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

So If you have Patriot Gold Extremes you can just leave them at 1.8 as they already have 155 on the seat...Right?

Your are running the regular Patriots aren't you?

I am just asking because I am running the exact same cam and am stepping up to 1.7s however I have the Gold Extremes installed at 1.78-1.80 as instructed by lloyd...

Spiers

iTrader: (7)

Thats correct I believe you can just leave the Extremes at 1.8 since they are 155#

Yea I have the regular golds which are 135# at 1.8, so now I gotta pull the springs to check height and Im sure Ill have to shim them to get 155#

So now I also gotta order some shims and a valvespring micrometer and a solid lifter to check for pushrod length....chances are Im gonna need different pushrods too

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

Don't forget to make sure you still have plenty of spring travel before
1. coil bind 2. retainer to guide and 3. retainer to valve seal
after you shim those springs .060" because you are effectively shortening the height of the overall set-up.

I don't think it will be an issue at all with your particular springs, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Do you really need to buy a solid lifter to check for pushrod length? I have never heard of anyone doing that on GM hydraulic roller engines. (The lifter part, not checking pr length) Is is a "special" lifter just for this purpose? I don't see how you could use a real solid roller lifter sense they would be a different length than the hydraulic lifter anyway, right?

NewOrleansLT1

The 1.7rr will increase the duration by about 2 degrees over the 1.6rr. For the people looking for part numbers scp-1025 for 1.7 3/8, scp-1026 for 1.7 7/16.