Is it just me...
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Launching!
Joined: Nov 2009
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Is it just me... This is probably the wrong section but oh well. Is it just me or does anyone else think GM should've put the M90 on the RS V6 Camaro's? They already had the supercharger on Grand Prix GTP's since 1997. I think 240 hp would make a really fun car, plus good MPG? I always thought about this.. Only for the RS models though not just a straight up v6. With maybe a T-56 and a lsd not an open diff.
The cost would not justify the means. The 3rd and 4th gen f-bodys are nothing more than parts bin cars. Little to nothing was done so they could maintain an affordable price.
This thread is probably in the wrong section, but...I'm old enough to remember the Turbo Firebird Trans Am. That car was a monster. Yes it was a turbo not a SC, but it just shows that GM probably could have made a SC Camaro/Firebird and if they did, look at the performance they probably could have gotten out of it.
http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/05/p...niversary.html
Reading the article, I forgot that the car was as fast as many modern "Muscle" cars - from the article:
"The turbo Trans Am finally had the grunt to match its looks. Car and Driver managed a 4.6-second 0-60 run; that's still extreme performance today and simply mind-blowing in 1989. It also handled well and topped out at more than 160 mph."
I had a 1997 Camaro, V6, M5 with the Y86 package. It was decently quick for the time, not much slower than Mustang GTs at the time.
http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/05/p...niversary.html
Reading the article, I forgot that the car was as fast as many modern "Muscle" cars - from the article:
"The turbo Trans Am finally had the grunt to match its looks. Car and Driver managed a 4.6-second 0-60 run; that's still extreme performance today and simply mind-blowing in 1989. It also handled well and topped out at more than 160 mph."
I had a 1997 Camaro, V6, M5 with the Y86 package. It was decently quick for the time, not much slower than Mustang GTs at the time.
Last edited by Cheap Guy; Dec 4, 2010 at 09:14 PM.
Why not turbo one? They'd take to boost VERY well. The na GPs have the same motor and they are pumping out lots of boost stock. Or throw in the lower CR (9.5-8.5) rotating assy and that's good for 20 lbs. Plus look under that hood! There's tons of room for a T67. I bet you could use a GP front header for the passenger side and alter it for the drivers.
I've thought about this many times. Actually thinking about it now too...
a cloth V6 with manual everything. build the T5, swap rearends and even with 8lbs of boost you could hit 13s relatively easy/cheap. A couple extra things here and there like rockers and a GOOD rear end, raise the boost to 15-20 and it'll do 10s with LITTLE effort.
Hell there's a turbo kit you can buy from zzp that they all but guarantee the power to run nines on the COMPLETELY stock L67 shortblock and I believe even the heads are stock.
I've thought about this many times. Actually thinking about it now too...
a cloth V6 with manual everything. build the T5, swap rearends and even with 8lbs of boost you could hit 13s relatively easy/cheap. A couple extra things here and there like rockers and a GOOD rear end, raise the boost to 15-20 and it'll do 10s with LITTLE effort.
Hell there's a turbo kit you can buy from zzp that they all but guarantee the power to run nines on the COMPLETELY stock L67 shortblock and I believe even the heads are stock.
You could also do a CSC kit on ...holy crap. ZZP sells an fbody specific kit finally.
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...1145&catid=109
I just came in my pants.
$3k car + $4k kit = mid 12s and appear/sound completely stock outside. Then more mods like heads, cam, bolt ons, all of which are cheaper on the 3800 and way more common and you've got a hell of a car. It'll probably at that point destroy an LT1 mod for mod.
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...1145&catid=109
I just came in my pants.
$3k car + $4k kit = mid 12s and appear/sound completely stock outside. Then more mods like heads, cam, bolt ons, all of which are cheaper on the 3800 and way more common and you've got a hell of a car. It'll probably at that point destroy an LT1 mod for mod.
Last edited by LSWHO; Dec 4, 2010 at 09:55 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo No you don't. You have a car that will inherit the required attention and problems of a single digit car for something that runs maybe low 12's. You want to get into boosted v6's then look to getting a Super Coupe or T-bird with a 3.8L roots. One was at the track last weekend running 10.7's at 127.
No you don't. You have a car that will inherit the required attention and problems of a single digit car for something that runs maybe low 12's. You want to get into boosted v6's then look to getting a Super Coupe or T-bird with a 3.8L roots. One was at the track last weekend running 10.7's at 127.
The L36/L67 blocks are amazing, and their aftermarket is incredible.
Turbo'd series 2 motors can EASILY make 400-500whp with very little if any bolt ons while running stock heads/cam/and completely stock shortblock.
Step over to a grand prix forum and ask around. They have so many advantages from the start.
Imagine building your LT1 to handle 20 psi. How much would it cost to build just the motor?
The L67 can be purchased for $800 in perfect working condition and can/has/does handle over 20 psi AS IS. That's your entire bottom end built for a fraction the cost.
Throw that into the firebird and push 20 psi through it with a couple fuel upgrades, springs and a tune and you've got over 500whp plus the cost of the car itself for less than $10k
Top that with ported stock heads and turbo cam for under $1400 with some rockers total that to $1500k and you've got the capability of 600+
The tuning capabilities are the same as the LSx.
Last edited by LSWHO; Dec 5, 2010 at 01:23 AM.
Assuming the other claims are true (also interested in some sort of example) and beyond the $4k upgrade to the motor you still have a junk 2 piece driveshaft, rear drum brakes, a 110mph speedo, a 5 speed manual or a craptacular automatic, as well as a handful of suspension components that won't stand up to any kind of real power.
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Seems a lot of guys have a lot of misconceptions about V6 f-bodies. Like I mentioned above, if you get one with the Y86/Y87 package, it's basically a Z28 with a V6 - four wheel discs, dual outlet exhaust (
- just like the Z), Z28 suspension (steering, deCarbon shocks, roll bars), posi, 120 mph speedo, etc. and IIRC a single piece aluminum driveshaft. I use to go to an f-body forum and guys were doing some helluva things to these cars. Another plus is that although the 3800 II is an older design, GM did such good work on it that it was more updated and more reliable than the LT1, i.e., it had a TRUE and RELIABLE electronic ignition system (coils, no opti). In fact, the 3800 outlived the LT1 by about ten years and was used in most of GM's most reliable cars.
How do I know? Because I had one and it was one of BEST cars that I've had. It was lighter than my LT1, so it handled better, and was actually easier to work on and parts were easy to find (not that I did any major performance upgrades). The same mods for the LT1 (cai, exhaust) worked just as well on the V6.
Why didn't more people do it? Frankly, most people when they think of "muscle" or "pony" cars (Camaro, Mustang) think V8, and V6 are chick cars = not worth modding. GM and Ford are trying to change peoples minds right now with the current Camaro/Mustang.
- just like the Z), Z28 suspension (steering, deCarbon shocks, roll bars), posi, 120 mph speedo, etc. and IIRC a single piece aluminum driveshaft. I use to go to an f-body forum and guys were doing some helluva things to these cars. Another plus is that although the 3800 II is an older design, GM did such good work on it that it was more updated and more reliable than the LT1, i.e., it had a TRUE and RELIABLE electronic ignition system (coils, no opti). In fact, the 3800 outlived the LT1 by about ten years and was used in most of GM's most reliable cars.How do I know? Because I had one and it was one of BEST cars that I've had. It was lighter than my LT1, so it handled better, and was actually easier to work on and parts were easy to find (not that I did any major performance upgrades). The same mods for the LT1 (cai, exhaust) worked just as well on the V6.
Why didn't more people do it? Frankly, most people when they think of "muscle" or "pony" cars (Camaro, Mustang) think V8, and V6 are chick cars = not worth modding. GM and Ford are trying to change peoples minds right now with the current Camaro/Mustang.
For the same price I can get an LT1 into 12s NA and still have more potential mods to install to go faster(instead of already being boosted and needing big bucks to go any quicker).
Hell, you could do a budget turbo build on an LT1 and smoke those mid-12s with ease for a similar price - a running LT car is ~3500 all day around here.
Hell, you could do a budget turbo build on an LT1 and smoke those mid-12s with ease for a similar price - a running LT car is ~3500 all day around here.
