Cam Install Questions...
12-14-2010, 01:34 AM
#21
heres what ive heard, unless they look very very very bad, you dont have to do it. You also cant do it with the motor in the car, it needs to be disassembled and the bearings are pressed in alot harder then other motors.
with 83k im sure youll be ok.
with 83k im sure youll be ok.
12-15-2010, 01:25 PM
#23
12-16-2010, 09:14 AM
#26
You need to degree the camshaft when you install it to ensure that it is ground properly. We don't perform 100% in house QC on cams for fun - they need to be checked if the customer doesn't want to degree them, and wants the camshaft installed on a specific centerline. That isn't to say it won't run if the camshaft/timingset/etc. tolerances stack up and it isn't where you think it is, but it is worth consideration.
If this is a car that sees no mileage it will be OK for awhile. Otherwise, that is not a cam I would ever consider running in a street car. It is far too aggressive in our experience, but then again we always lean towards running the nicest headwork possible so we can go easy on camshaft aggressiveness.
If you're running stock heads w/ stock valves and no head machining, then you'd better double check all clearances as well when you perform mockup/assembly/degree. Hope that helps, good luck!
If this is a car that sees no mileage it will be OK for awhile. Otherwise, that is not a cam I would ever consider running in a street car. It is far too aggressive in our experience, but then again we always lean towards running the nicest headwork possible so we can go easy on camshaft aggressiveness.
If you're running stock heads w/ stock valves and no head machining, then you'd better double check all clearances as well when you perform mockup/assembly/degree. Hope that helps, good luck!
12-27-2010, 12:04 PM
#27
Thanks for the info Advanced, I wanted to go with a cam that was different. The way LE and Bret Bauer talked to me about the cam, it isnt anything massively special. Just high lift. People talk about doing 1.7 rockers on the cc503 putting it at a .570/.578 lift.
If 1.6's are to much, i can run the cam with 1.5's and be at .569/.566 lift. The the only crazy thing about this cam would be the 108lsa then. I dont think it will be an issue.
Thanks for the heads up on degree'ing it, I think its ground to go dot to dot. I can email and ask though. I assume thats what you meant.
I got a parts list together, its looking pretty budget friendly so far but i havent factor'd in rockers and springs yet. I was going to go with LS7 lifters but i saw some comp cams lifters that are a little bit cheaper. I dont know if the LS7 lifters need a new tray or holders or what. Does anyone know what all i need? or do i just order the GM PN-12499225 and be good?
Thanks!
If 1.6's are to much, i can run the cam with 1.5's and be at .569/.566 lift. The the only crazy thing about this cam would be the 108lsa then. I dont think it will be an issue.
Thanks for the heads up on degree'ing it, I think its ground to go dot to dot. I can email and ask though. I assume thats what you meant.
I got a parts list together, its looking pretty budget friendly so far but i havent factor'd in rockers and springs yet. I was going to go with LS7 lifters but i saw some comp cams lifters that are a little bit cheaper. I dont know if the LS7 lifters need a new tray or holders or what. Does anyone know what all i need? or do i just order the GM PN-12499225 and be good?
Thanks!
12-30-2010, 12:31 PM
#29
Well i got bored and put the cam in the block. Have a problem now though, The cam bolts that hold the timing gear on the end of the cam dont want to thread into the end of the cam shaft, they hit a certain point and i can no longer tighten them with my fingers. Do they make different size cam bolts? the cam had the long dowel pin on the end, are the bolts that would be used on a car with a long dowel pin be different then a car with a gear drivin opti?
12-30-2010, 12:53 PM
#30
Well i got bored and put the cam in the block. Have a problem now though, The cam bolts that hold the timing gear on the end of the cam dont want to thread into the end of the cam shaft, they hit a certain point and i can no longer tighten them with my fingers. Do they make different size cam bolts? the cam had the long dowel pin on the end, are the bolts that would be used on a car with a long dowel pin be different then a car with a gear drivin opti?
12-30-2010, 12:56 PM
#31
all cam bearings are pressed how are therse harder?
12-30-2010, 06:57 PM
#32
Yes the timing chain was on. 2 of the bolts just didnt want to thread in, almost like they were the wrong size. When one of them threaded all the way in no problem i just said screw it and used the socket to get the other 2 all the way in. I was worried they were the wrong pitch/thread or something. but they are all on now and the 2 didnt fight me at all so im confident nothing is wrong...
Thats just the information i have found when searching. They are pressed in in a matter that you cannot change them with the engine in the car. You have to take the engine out and disassemble to do it. Some engines apparently you can do it with the engine in the car.
Thats just the information i have found when searching. They are pressed in in a matter that you cannot change them with the engine in the car. You have to take the engine out and disassemble to do it. Some engines apparently you can do it with the engine in the car.
12-30-2010, 09:07 PM
#33
"LE reccomended patriot gold extreme 8501-bsbc to me'
Then those are what I would run...
When it comes to Heads and Cams when LE and AI talk there is a reason people listen...They are a wealth of knowledge...
"Yes the timing chain was on. 2 of the bolts just didnt want to thread in, almost like they were the wrong size. When one of them threaded all the way in no problem i just said screw it and used the socket to get the other 2 all the way in."
Oh that is scary....
Then those are what I would run...
When it comes to Heads and Cams when LE and AI talk there is a reason people listen...They are a wealth of knowledge...
"Yes the timing chain was on. 2 of the bolts just didnt want to thread in, almost like they were the wrong size. When one of them threaded all the way in no problem i just said screw it and used the socket to get the other 2 all the way in."
Oh that is scary....
12-30-2010, 09:34 PM
#34
yea but the force needed was slightly more then i could get with my fingers, and they went in easier as it went. Scary yes, but i have no reason to beleive they will fail, didnt feel cross threaded or anything. Thats kind of why i got on here to ask lol. When the one went in, guess it was one of the 3 i hadnt tried yet, i said ok maybe they just need some help.
Ive had bolts that dont want to go in due to cross threading or some other issue, wrong size...wrong pitch. the effort required to get these to go in was minimal, just more then my fingers could supply. just one of those situations where the last thing you want to do is try to force something in ya know?
Ive had bolts that dont want to go in due to cross threading or some other issue, wrong size...wrong pitch. the effort required to get these to go in was minimal, just more then my fingers could supply. just one of those situations where the last thing you want to do is try to force something in ya know?
12-31-2010, 12:02 PM
#35
That cam is going to annihilate your valve train unless you spend some money and really set it up well. That's an aggressive lobe that others have had trouble with in the past.
If you want it to be reliable go for 7/16 studs and very good rockers..
The springs are up to the task if you set them up properly... That is key though, don't justtake for granted they will be at the correct installed height..
If you want it to be reliable go for 7/16 studs and very good rockers..
The springs are up to the task if you set them up properly... That is key though, don't justtake for granted they will be at the correct installed height..
12-31-2010, 12:36 PM
#36
I would think something like this
$275 - patriot gold extreme 8501-bsbc - Ask Lloyd what he recommends for spring height
$110 - Comp Hardened push rods - You need to get a checkers so you can find out what length to order
$215 - Scorpion 1.6 NSA roller rockers
$25 - Trick Flow hardened guide plates
$45 - 7/16 ARP Rocker studs
$145 - LS7 Lifters
And if you don't already own and valve spring height tool and a push-rod length checker that is another $60
So there is about another ~$900 in valve train...And that is if you go scorpion rockers...If you go with the COMP Pro Mags you will be over 1k....and there is nothing you can skimp on...
$275 - patriot gold extreme 8501-bsbc - Ask Lloyd what he recommends for spring height
$110 - Comp Hardened push rods - You need to get a checkers so you can find out what length to order
$215 - Scorpion 1.6 NSA roller rockers
$25 - Trick Flow hardened guide plates
$45 - 7/16 ARP Rocker studs
$145 - LS7 Lifters
And if you don't already own and valve spring height tool and a push-rod length checker that is another $60
So there is about another ~$900 in valve train...And that is if you go scorpion rockers...If you go with the COMP Pro Mags you will be over 1k....and there is nothing you can skimp on...
12-31-2010, 03:39 PM
#40
all of this was taken into consideration when i talked to LE and BRE when i was getting ready to purchase the camshaft.
Patriot golds installed at 1.780 is what i need. and also the high end comp ultra? pro mags. This cam swap isnt a weekend thing, the car its going into is a 2nd car that doesnt get drivin much at all.
Im sick of everyone telling me not to run this cam and that its gonna destroy my motor. Ive actually gotten PMS from people not wanting to post bad things in the thread. I originally wanted to run it because it was different, now i want to run it just to shut everyone up
there have been a few doubts, but there have also been ALOT of certaintys. Wrong parts used, parts installed incorrectly, those are certaintys that this cam will eat a valvetrain. Useing the correct parts, and paying the money for them, this cam wont have any issues. I may be going about it the hard way since i really wont make any more power then anyone else but im a big fan of doing things differently.
I appreciate all the info ive been givin and i hope i stll get great info, just tired of hearing the same thing about the camshaft not working. it works fine! just gotta use the right parts with it!
Patriot golds installed at 1.780 is what i need. and also the high end comp ultra? pro mags. This cam swap isnt a weekend thing, the car its going into is a 2nd car that doesnt get drivin much at all.
Im sick of everyone telling me not to run this cam and that its gonna destroy my motor. Ive actually gotten PMS from people not wanting to post bad things in the thread. I originally wanted to run it because it was different, now i want to run it just to shut everyone up
there have been a few doubts, but there have also been ALOT of certaintys. Wrong parts used, parts installed incorrectly, those are certaintys that this cam will eat a valvetrain. Useing the correct parts, and paying the money for them, this cam wont have any issues. I may be going about it the hard way since i really wont make any more power then anyone else but im a big fan of doing things differently.
I appreciate all the info ive been givin and i hope i stll get great info, just tired of hearing the same thing about the camshaft not working. it works fine! just gotta use the right parts with it!