stumprrp

iTrader: (2)

This may be a stupid thread, but im just curious as to how i read all these dyno sheets of cam only automatic LS1 cars making more unlocked power then my car, and other stroker LT1's. Im talking just regular MS3, ls6 intake, 241 head cars with pretty large converters. I know alot of dynos are higher then others but i still cannot see how a big cube engine with much better flowing heads make the same power as a cam only 347 lol.

FYI - with an unlocked converter, single 3 inch exhaust, and 4.10's my car made 415 RWHP @ 6250 RPM. It now has dual 3 inch and 3.23s so its prob 5-10 hp higher.

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

Yes, they can make that power cam only. Typically though, the power band is very narrow and peaky.

stumprrp

iTrader: (2)

yeah thats basically what i thought, i dont go by dyno numbers by any means but its just something i was pondering.

myltwon

iTrader: (1)

a stroked LT making the same power as a cam only 346 is not very similar. peak power may be the same but average power will be very different let alone torque. the cam only 346 will require more rpm, gear, convertor, etc. to acheive similar results at the track and driveability-wise the stroker LT will be much nicer around town than the stock cube LS

as for cylinder heads, flow #'s aren't everything. you're comparing a 23 degree head to a 15 degree one, decent difference in that alone.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

at the track the narrow peaky powerband won't matter... on the street you will like the bottom end tq of the lt1 better. ms3 cam only ls1's are terrible in the lower rpms... need lots of gear, 4.10+!

Cammed 02

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stumprrp

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I can see this turning into a war, but i definately agree with the narrow power band thing. How about 4.10s in a stroker car? it was alot of fun while i had it but limited to 105 MPH stunk lol.

Golf&GM

iTrader: (22)

Not too sure about the narrow and peaky part. I've been looking around trying to decide on a cam and I'm leaking more toward a cam from EPS a little smaller than the one he used in this thread https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...o-results.html. He made 436rwhp/405tq on stock 241 heads, but he's a 6-speed. The dyno #s and graph are in post #134.

The cam tech and lobe design for the LS1s have really taken off in the past few years. There are cam only cars are cracking 400+rwhp with cams smaller than 230/.650 on stock heads.

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

Has it been to the track?

Golf&GM

iTrader: (22)

I'm not sure, if he did he didn't mention it in his thread. It's hard to find people with the cam I'm looking for that are cam only. Seems the norm is to add unported 243s with the EPS cams. Most of them I've found in the DR section run low 11s.

But then again track times are more about the entire car. For examples, there are cars with bolt ons and weight reduction that are trapping 120mph.

My point is that there is more and more R&D being done every day on LS series engines. Back when I had my LT1 a few years ago it seemed like the aftermarket was dwindling and there weren't many new parts coming out compared to the LS1. Seems like everyday I get on here someone else comes out with an LS1 cam with a different pet name. Sure, an M6 car with a Polluter, MS4, TREX cam will put up huge numbers and be peaky as hell, but there are cams a lot smaller that will break the 400rwhp number all day long and have great driveability. There's just been more time and money spent in developing them.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

rob.........why are we racing dyno's again????!!! dyno numbers mean jack **** in plain english..........remember my old 355......350rwhp 3450lbs 122mph trap speed........or my current setup......470rwhp 3515lbs 133mph trap........i think not.........dyno to dyno is different and everybody talks "peak horsepower" not horsepower curve or usable power.........ahhh im ranting lol but just keep it in mind rob thats all im saying

ROWDYZ28

A4 LS1 base cars with 241 heads, bolt ons, decent size cam, LS6 intake and stall will put down anywhere from 400-430rwh. Seen plenty of them. LS1's are the only way to go. If you say otherwise, then you haven't driven one with the mods listed above. M6 IMO is the only way to go.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

i compeltely understand what ur saying.........they do make great power....i've driven and built plenty of them......i see ur point my bolt on LS2 gto made 380 wheel........im just saying not to get hooked on dyno numbers.......ive seen alot of 500rwhp dyno cars get beat by 450rwhp cars on the street and the track

Go On 3

iTrader: (2)

quik95lt1 is absolutely right.. every dyno reads differently..its a tuning reference and a number to flaunt over the internet, track times dont have much room to lie

Golf&GM

iTrader: (22)

True true true, with track times the only tricky part would be DA. A car that runs mid 11s up in CO could very possibly run mid to low 10s at a sea level track in cold temps. Best and surest way to know who's car is faster is to line 'em up

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I made 370rwhp and ran 7.30-7.32@95-95 with 1.50-.152 short time barely spinning. Race weight was between 3450-3500.
That was with a 226 cam hand ported 317s and an ls6 intake. Granted that Dyno is around 20 low, just giving you an example.

I don't know your 1/8 times op but looks like I would have around .5 quicker et and out trap you by 1-2 mph in the quarter, this is bench racing though.

Like it has been stated, dyno numbers mean NOTHING!! I have beat ms4 cars making 30+rwhp more than me and I have lost to cars with smaller cams than me. It is in the complete setup, cam selection is not one of the biggest ingredients if a car runs what it should. Heads/converter play a much larger role.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

i actually think you guys would be pretty close.......a 7.30 @ 95 puts you around an 11.4 @ 118ish........my old 355 in my car at 3450lbs went 7.20's at 95-96 in the 1/8th and it ran 11.40's @ 120-122 in the quarter.......that car made "350rwhp" and it was 3450lbs........

now im running 6.50 @ 105 in the 1/8th at 3510lbs and with 470rwhp.......

again the dyno #'s are just a tuning tool as said before.......glad we all agree on that lol that can become one hell of an internet argument with alot of people lol

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-raci...s-engines.html

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Well since I spun a bearing it ain't going much of anywhere! Lol hope I can hit a 5.xx with the new setup after some tweaking though!
Op, what is your short time? I'm going to guess a high 1.6 or so. Thought about moving up in converter size?

nitrous2fast

iTrader: (2)

Its all about being relative/similar. If everything closely matches (heads, intake, cam, exhaust, short block) then it will run much better. take for example.... a friend asked comp for the biggest cam he could put in a LS1. They gladly sent him it. I think at the time it had in the neighbor hood of .646 lift, ~110 lsa, and i can't remember the duration? well anyways the cam didn't match his stock non-ported heads, and his short block wasn't ready to take it to 7500 rpms like the cam was designed to preform at. this gave him little torque, and not really a good top end power band, like he should have been able to achieve if he had gotten a smaller cam to match his setup. that being said it still ran pretty well for what it was.

The LS1's will almost always make better cam only power. A better flowing head, fast burning head, and a better system all around.