LT1 Brainstorm
ok so in case someones still reading this, im going to go with replacement ls7 lifters. I even heard some dealerships will sell them for cheaper than most online stores, so im gonna have that checked out.
Im still not sure exactly differs between 2 valve relief pistons and 4 valve relief, but it looks like 2 valve is the way to go for now.
Also, i was thinking since im getting forged pistons and rods, would i be able to get away with a bigger cam than the cc503? Im definately gonna get a stall/gears and ported heads in the future, and im already replacing most my valvetrain.
I was looking at the lunati voodoo 60122 (231/239@.050 .535/.550 110). I understand ill sacrifice power untill i get my heads and stall, but what worries me is that the rpm range is from 2400-6500 and i dont know if thats safe on my setup. what do you guys think?
And if not the lunati, which other one might you guys recommend?
If im going forged internals, im thinking why not use a cam that takes advantage of that
Im still not sure exactly differs between 2 valve relief pistons and 4 valve relief, but it looks like 2 valve is the way to go for now.
Also, i was thinking since im getting forged pistons and rods, would i be able to get away with a bigger cam than the cc503? Im definately gonna get a stall/gears and ported heads in the future, and im already replacing most my valvetrain.
I was looking at the lunati voodoo 60122 (231/239@.050 .535/.550 110). I understand ill sacrifice power untill i get my heads and stall, but what worries me is that the rpm range is from 2400-6500 and i dont know if thats safe on my setup. what do you guys think?
And if not the lunati, which other one might you guys recommend?
If im going forged internals, im thinking why not use a cam that takes advantage of that
In general, a 2-valve relief piston is for.....2 valve heads. And the same for 4-valve relief pistons. LT1 heads are 2-valve.
The valve reliefs allow the piston to travel higher/get closer to the combustion chamber (more compression), or if your block is decked and you need the room to not smack valves.
The lunati cam seems alright, but I think there are better options out there. For building a custom motor, a custom grind cam is always a good call. Call Lloyd Elliot or the folks at Advanced Inductions. They can recommend a cam profile for you.
Forged internals have NOTHING to do with camshaft size. You can build a bottom end with whatever crap parts you can find, you can still run a big cam with it. Forged internals strengthen the bottom end for super high compression, nitrous, or forced induction.
As far as the lifters are concerned, if you want new...you have to go with LS7 lifters. They are also the factory replacement for LT1 lifters (now discontinued).
As far as rod lenght, im gonna go with 6.000in over 5.700 instead. Apparently theres not much of a difference, and 6.000 seems the way to go.
Im still not sure if i need 2valve reliefs or 4valve reliefs for the pistons. I couldnt find much info on that, so if anyone can chime in, itll really help out.
Heres what im looking at...
crank- stock
pistons- Mahle SBC550030F05 (forged flat 4.030 includes rings)
rods- Scat Pro Comp I-Beam 26000716 (4340 forged 6.000" 7/16 bolt diameter, includes arp bolts)
rod bearings- ???
main bearings- ???
For the bearings it all depends on the crank's condition, so i still dont know what size ill be using.
So know my questions are,
1) do i need 4 valve or 2 valve reliefs for the pistons? (and whats the difference)
2) will OE ls7 lifters work with my setup? (if not which ones will)
3) as for my bottom end, am i missing anything?
Thanks for the help so far!
Im still not sure if i need 2valve reliefs or 4valve reliefs for the pistons. I couldnt find much info on that, so if anyone can chime in, itll really help out.
Heres what im looking at...
crank- stock
pistons- Mahle SBC550030F05 (forged flat 4.030 includes rings)
rods- Scat Pro Comp I-Beam 26000716 (4340 forged 6.000" 7/16 bolt diameter, includes arp bolts)
rod bearings- ???
main bearings- ???
For the bearings it all depends on the crank's condition, so i still dont know what size ill be using.
So know my questions are,
1) do i need 4 valve or 2 valve reliefs for the pistons? (and whats the difference)
2) will OE ls7 lifters work with my setup? (if not which ones will)
3) as for my bottom end, am i missing anything?
Thanks for the help so far!
1. You do not want a 4 valve relief piston all this is doing is increasing combustion volume and dropping you're effective compression ratio. A 2 relief piston is what you need.
2. I would not build a 6" rod 355, no need to move the pin up the piston more and also it will be tougher on the rotating assembley and block........I'm not a fan of 6" rod 3.48" stroke motors.
3. The Scat I beam 8740 bolts will be plenty for your motor
4. As you say the bearings will depend on the condition of the parts, you will prob end up being .010 under.......
5. Yes you need an oil pump and pickup.
6. The LS7 lifters are a good choice
PM me for more info if you'd like....
Mike
Thanks for the help guys.
Now get this, i called my local chevy dealer to get the price on ls7 lifters, and after waiting for around 15 minutes, he tells me theyre $215 (TWOhundred&fifteen) EACH!!! That equals $3440 for all 16!
im sure he made a mistake so i asked if he was sure, but didnt feel like being a jerk and just told him nevermind. Now im considering slanging ls7 lifters outside the dealership to make enough money for my build. 
Thats good to know, so if i were to get either the lunati or 503, will the springs handle them well? Springs im looking at= Patriot Performance 8501
Also, i plan on getting a custom cam the same time i get my heads ported, so thatll be in the future depending on how much i spend on my bottom end and valvetrain now. For now ill just stick with an off-the shelf cam. Reason i asked over the lunati, is because i heard they make really good cams for being non-custom grind. The voodoo 60121 seems to be a little underpowered compared to the cc503 and the lunati 60122 seems much bigger. So far seems like the cc503 might be my best bet. I just wanted to try something a little different since everyone seems to have a 503.
So my next step is looking for an oil pump and gaskets.
Mike, sent you a PM
Now get this, i called my local chevy dealer to get the price on ls7 lifters, and after waiting for around 15 minutes, he tells me theyre $215 (TWOhundred&fifteen) EACH!!! That equals $3440 for all 16!
im sure he made a mistake so i asked if he was sure, but didnt feel like being a jerk and just told him nevermind. Now im considering slanging ls7 lifters outside the dealership to make enough money for my build. Also, i plan on getting a custom cam the same time i get my heads ported, so thatll be in the future depending on how much i spend on my bottom end and valvetrain now. For now ill just stick with an off-the shelf cam. Reason i asked over the lunati, is because i heard they make really good cams for being non-custom grind. The voodoo 60121 seems to be a little underpowered compared to the cc503 and the lunati 60122 seems much bigger. So far seems like the cc503 might be my best bet. I just wanted to try something a little different since everyone seems to have a 503.
So my next step is looking for an oil pump and gaskets.
Mike, sent you a PM
Yeah, kinda sucks, but i think its hilarious that the lifters cost more than my car 
Bad thing is that theyre the only chevy dealership where i live. its a small city so they take advantage i guess. Im just gonna get em through gmparts directs, or even some used ones will do.
Bad thing is that theyre the only chevy dealership where i live. its a small city so they take advantage i guess. Im just gonna get em through gmparts directs, or even some used ones will do.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. $215 is for a WHOLE SET. If they're a better price at your dealer, order them.
There are a lot of people selling used LS7 lifters on here, but beware...you're buying used parts from people you don't know.
There are a lot of people selling used LS7 lifters on here, but beware...you're buying used parts from people you don't know.
gmparts has the same set for around half the price. Thats why im not even gonna bother with the dealer. I just heard someone say they bought their ls7 lifters from a dealer for i think 80 something dollars for the whole set, so I figured it wouldnt hurt to ask for my dealerships price. boy was i wrong.
Well heres a small recap of what ive got planned so far:
BOTTOM END
crank- stock
pistons- Mahle SBC550030F05 (forged flat 4.030 includes rings; 2valve reliefs)
connecting rods- Scat Pro Comp I-Beam 25700716 (4340 forged 5.700" 7/16 bolt diameter; includes ARP bolts)
main & rod bearings- depends
oil pump & pickup- still not sure
gaskets-
VALVETRAIN
cam- opened to suggestions (looking at cc503 and lunati 60122)
rockers- NSA pro mags 1306-16
rocker studs- ARP 7/16 (size???)
pushrods- TrickFlow 21407200 (chromemoly 5/16 7.200)
guideplates- comp cam 4800-8 (5/16 raised)
lifters- LS7 replacements
springs- patriot performance Xtreme 8454 (includes titanium retainers and titanium 10 degree locks)
timing chain- lt4????
I still need to fill in a couple blanks, but what do you guys think so far?
Now a couple of questions came up. I plan on getting a CSR EWP, and im wondering if ill need a different type of timing chain other than an OE replacement. Any type i should look at, or avoid??
Also, will i need new valves or am i safe with the current ones i have untill i have my heads ported?
Well heres a small recap of what ive got planned so far:
BOTTOM END
crank- stock
pistons- Mahle SBC550030F05 (forged flat 4.030 includes rings; 2valve reliefs)
connecting rods- Scat Pro Comp I-Beam 25700716 (4340 forged 5.700" 7/16 bolt diameter; includes ARP bolts)
main & rod bearings- depends
oil pump & pickup- still not sure
gaskets-
VALVETRAIN
cam- opened to suggestions (looking at cc503 and lunati 60122)
rockers- NSA pro mags 1306-16
rocker studs- ARP 7/16 (size???)
pushrods- TrickFlow 21407200 (chromemoly 5/16 7.200)
guideplates- comp cam 4800-8 (5/16 raised)
lifters- LS7 replacements
springs- patriot performance Xtreme 8454 (includes titanium retainers and titanium 10 degree locks)
timing chain- lt4????
I still need to fill in a couple blanks, but what do you guys think so far?
Now a couple of questions came up. I plan on getting a CSR EWP, and im wondering if ill need a different type of timing chain other than an OE replacement. Any type i should look at, or avoid??
Also, will i need new valves or am i safe with the current ones i have untill i have my heads ported?
Couple things...
Don't assume that you need 7.20" pushrods. It is ALWAYS best to measure once you have the cam/lifters/heads installed. Valvetrain geometry is something you need to get right the first time. Research how to measure for proper length.
For the guideplates, go with the TFS 30400623-8. These have been known to fit the best in LT1 applications.
If you don't plan on keeping the CPS (which I wouldn't), upgrade to a 95-year timing cover, longer OBDI crank hub, and the Cloyes 3145 double roller timing chain. It's a bulletproof chain that will fit under the stock timing cover with minor trimming. Or if you don't want to do all of that a stock chain will work also. Just make sure you replace the sprockets as well - not just the chain.
I would leave the oil pump alone - just install a GM high pressure white spring. That's it.
Clevite H-series bearings get my vote.
Don't assume that you need 7.20" pushrods. It is ALWAYS best to measure once you have the cam/lifters/heads installed. Valvetrain geometry is something you need to get right the first time. Research how to measure for proper length.
For the guideplates, go with the TFS 30400623-8. These have been known to fit the best in LT1 applications.
If you don't plan on keeping the CPS (which I wouldn't), upgrade to a 95-year timing cover, longer OBDI crank hub, and the Cloyes 3145 double roller timing chain. It's a bulletproof chain that will fit under the stock timing cover with minor trimming. Or if you don't want to do all of that a stock chain will work also. Just make sure you replace the sprockets as well - not just the chain.
I would leave the oil pump alone - just install a GM high pressure white spring. That's it.
Clevite H-series bearings get my vote.
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Verdad Gallardo yeah im definately gonna measure the pushrods. I just put 7.200 for assuming that was stock lenght.
The guideplates you showed me are flat. Will raised ones have a fitment problem? Since im getting non self aligned rockers i figured raised would help out more in the upper RPMs. Not sure if its worth it though.
As far as the timing chain goes, im probably just gonna stick with a stock OE replacement and new sprockets then. Sounds like a cheaper way to go.
Also will a lt4 TC be any better? I found one for around the same price if not a little cheaper than an lt1 replacement. Unless they are the same ones.
Thanks
The guideplates you showed me are flat. Will raised ones have a fitment problem? Since im getting non self aligned rockers i figured raised would help out more in the upper RPMs. Not sure if its worth it though.
As far as the timing chain goes, im probably just gonna stick with a stock OE replacement and new sprockets then. Sounds like a cheaper way to go.
Also will a lt4 TC be any better? I found one for around the same price if not a little cheaper than an lt1 replacement. Unless they are the same ones.
Thanks
The LT4 ED timing set is a butt-ton of money. Not sure what you're looking at, not to mention the LT4 set is a roller; stock is a bar-link type.
Go with the guideplates that are proven. How did you come about that part number? Remember SBC guideplates differ from LT1 plates.
Go with the guideplates that are proven. How did you come about that part number? Remember SBC guideplates differ from LT1 plates.
the lt4 timing chain part number is 12555887. Not sure how that compares to a GM lt1 replacement one.
The guide plates are http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4800-8/
however i just read that it says "machine work required" I didnt catch that, so thanks ill stick with the trickFlows you said.
The guide plates are http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4800-8/
however i just read that it says "machine work required" I didnt catch that, so thanks ill stick with the trickFlows you said.
I suppose the other questioning I have is...why the forged rods and pistons? It's an N/A build right? I'm being lazy and not reading through the whole thread again. It's early.
If it fits behind the stock cover, you will have no problem with an EWP. Beware, with most EWP's, you need to trim the fan shroud for some clearance.
Couple things...
Don't assume that you need 7.20" pushrods. It is ALWAYS best to measure once you have the cam/lifters/heads installed. Valvetrain geometry is something you need to get right the first time. Research how to measure for proper length.
For the guideplates, go with the TFS 30400623-8. These have been known to fit the best in LT1 applications.
If you don't plan on keeping the CPS (which I wouldn't), upgrade to a 95-year timing cover, longer OBDI crank hub, and the Cloyes 3145 double roller timing chain. It's a bulletproof chain that will fit under the stock timing cover with minor trimming. Or if you don't want to do all of that a stock chain will work also. Just make sure you replace the sprockets as well - not just the chain.
I would leave the oil pump alone - just install a GM high pressure white spring. That's it.
Clevite H-series bearings get my vote.
Don't assume that you need 7.20" pushrods. It is ALWAYS best to measure once you have the cam/lifters/heads installed. Valvetrain geometry is something you need to get right the first time. Research how to measure for proper length.
For the guideplates, go with the TFS 30400623-8. These have been known to fit the best in LT1 applications.
If you don't plan on keeping the CPS (which I wouldn't), upgrade to a 95-year timing cover, longer OBDI crank hub, and the Cloyes 3145 double roller timing chain. It's a bulletproof chain that will fit under the stock timing cover with minor trimming. Or if you don't want to do all of that a stock chain will work also. Just make sure you replace the sprockets as well - not just the chain.
I would leave the oil pump alone - just install a GM high pressure white spring. That's it.
Clevite H-series bearings get my vote.
thanks for all the help so far fellas!
Glad to know i wont need to trim the fan shroud with the CSR. Im gonna go with P series bearing once i find out what size i need.
Also ramair95ta, you mentioned leaving my oil pump alone and just getting the gm performance spring. How will that differ from buying a new oil pump and pickup? I really like the idea that its all under 5 bucks but it kinda sounds too good to be true, if i can safely get away with only replacing the spring.
It seems like the only thing missing are all my gaskets/seals. Ima look into those today.
Glad to know i wont need to trim the fan shroud with the CSR. Im gonna go with P series bearing once i find out what size i need.
Also ramair95ta, you mentioned leaving my oil pump alone and just getting the gm performance spring. How will that differ from buying a new oil pump and pickup? I really like the idea that its all under 5 bucks but it kinda sounds too good to be true, if i can safely get away with only replacing the spring.
It seems like the only thing missing are all my gaskets/seals. Ima look into those today.
