constructive criticism welcome
08-04-2011, 02:04 PM
#21
Callies doesn't make a 4" stroke 1pc rear main seal for the gen I or Gen II engine. Now I do like their products, but I'd rather not spend $2000 (quoted from K1, a division of weisco) to get a one off crank should something happen. On the other hand I really like the Callies Magnum XL line, especially because of their weight....34-47 lbs is friggin light! Maybe I'll just bite the bullet since everything else on the damn thing will be custom, I might as well just dump some more coin and really not worry about the RPM factor.....
08-04-2011, 02:07 PM
#22
with that much stroke and plans of 7500rpm+ i would try to reduce the bob weight of the rotating assembly as much as possible...........id look into an ibeam/billet style rod vs. the hbeam design.......the callies compstar I beams are a pretty nice piece......
08-04-2011, 02:12 PM
#23
So the wife told me I can start building an engine....it's going to be slow due to costs of the parts, but I want some opinions.
Block is a stock LT1 and going to have splayed caps on all 5 mains
Eagle 4" stroke crank for a 1pc rear main
H-beam 5.85" rods - brand undetermined
custom 4.030" 18* pistons - brand undetermined
Brodix 18X CNC ported heads
Solid roller - specs to be determined
7/16" 1.6:1 roller rockers - brand undetermined
3/8" pushrods
rocker girdle
I'm thinking total seal rings, and coated bearings.
I'm going to have to use a single plane intake as it would probably hurt me to use a modified LTx intake, so that will most likely be a Brodix intake converted for injection with a 4bbl throttle body. I'm planning on going with the 24x conversion and most likely a th350/400 swap since the little 4l60 in there won't last long. The goal is 750+ at the flywheel and then maybe some spray on it for when I get bored. Believe it of not this is going into a primarily street driven car, that will see occasional track time. Now before everyone says you won't like it on the street, I'm the type of guy that doesn't mind adjusting valves every oil change and changing springs every couple of years. And on top of that, I'm going to convert over to a hydra-boost system since I'm sure the vacuum signal will be near nothing. Plus I only drive my car a couple miles a day, unless something weird happens, so my street driving is far different from most peoples.
Go ahead and nit pick and let me know what you guys think. Please don't bash the fact that it's a 408. I'm looking for constructive criticism.
Block is a stock LT1 and going to have splayed caps on all 5 mains
Eagle 4" stroke crank for a 1pc rear main
H-beam 5.85" rods - brand undetermined
custom 4.030" 18* pistons - brand undetermined
Brodix 18X CNC ported heads
Solid roller - specs to be determined
7/16" 1.6:1 roller rockers - brand undetermined
3/8" pushrods
rocker girdle
I'm thinking total seal rings, and coated bearings.
I'm going to have to use a single plane intake as it would probably hurt me to use a modified LTx intake, so that will most likely be a Brodix intake converted for injection with a 4bbl throttle body. I'm planning on going with the 24x conversion and most likely a th350/400 swap since the little 4l60 in there won't last long. The goal is 750+ at the flywheel and then maybe some spray on it for when I get bored. Believe it of not this is going into a primarily street driven car, that will see occasional track time. Now before everyone says you won't like it on the street, I'm the type of guy that doesn't mind adjusting valves every oil change and changing springs every couple of years. And on top of that, I'm going to convert over to a hydra-boost system since I'm sure the vacuum signal will be near nothing. Plus I only drive my car a couple miles a day, unless something weird happens, so my street driving is far different from most peoples.
Go ahead and nit pick and let me know what you guys think. Please don't bash the fact that it's a 408. I'm looking for constructive criticism.
those heads will need to be converted to run on the lt1 block.......
also ditch the 7/16" rocker idea and run a shaft setup that motor will be no place to be screwing around with a stud rocker.......
08-04-2011, 05:56 PM
#28
Just in the last year a friend had a 750ish HP 40X ci Gen 1 built off a Dart block, wildly custom 23degree heads and intake. I have ideas about what little bits of it cost and you have no idea what you are getting into. I don't know exact numbers because he is not a dyno racer but I know it makes near 750flywheel and I know it goes to 8500rpm. I also know he has a couple sets of lifters so they can be swapped for routine rebuild, betting the custom shaft mounts get rebuilt at least once a year, believe they are only looking at 2000miles out of springs and the cam was tweaked on the spintron for low pressure. He spent more on valves than people here want to spend on heads/cam complete valvetrain and I believe he got the valves near wholesale.
I don't have direct experience but watching a friend go through exactly this and watching his growing pains and having heard prices on a few things I can say conclusively you have no idea what you are in for.
The builder he had in charge of this build is a real professional, like Cup and ProStock stuff.
18 degree will make it a little easier for you but cost, rpm and upkeep are still going to be beyond what you expect and you will need TOP notch support from a very good shop, not an average one and not just a shop with a good internet reputation.
I don't have direct experience but watching a friend go through exactly this and watching his growing pains and having heard prices on a few things I can say conclusively you have no idea what you are in for.
The builder he had in charge of this build is a real professional, like Cup and ProStock stuff.
18 degree will make it a little easier for you but cost, rpm and upkeep are still going to be beyond what you expect and you will need TOP notch support from a very good shop, not an average one and not just a shop with a good internet reputation.
08-04-2011, 09:14 PM
#32
Trust in the fact that the machine shop I use is very good, not even a well known shop on the internet. They are local and build wild stuff that wins. Infact they did a friends 650 hp 406 a few years ago. The true intent is not the rpm range, more the power....too bad it takes rpm to get there. And the real reason for staying n/a comes more from personal taste. Not really a fan of poweradders.
08-04-2011, 09:32 PM
#33
08-04-2011, 09:50 PM
#34
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doesn't seem like you really want criticism, but I'll throw my hat in the ring anyway.
I understand the point to be different by going 408, but if everyone builds a 383 or 396 its probably for a good reason, why mess with a good thing?
the 4" stroke is gonna make you cut the hell out of the oil pan rails on the block if you use a H beam rod and its gonna put a ton of stress on the walls at high rpm.
stud mount rocker arms? a joke after you break the 500hp mark go with T&D shafts or Jesel
Knowing how good ppl are getting 23* heads to flow now days I would save some cash and go with those.
Iam not trying to build your engine for you, this is just my opinion
I understand the point to be different by going 408, but if everyone builds a 383 or 396 its probably for a good reason, why mess with a good thing?
the 4" stroke is gonna make you cut the hell out of the oil pan rails on the block if you use a H beam rod and its gonna put a ton of stress on the walls at high rpm.
stud mount rocker arms? a joke after you break the 500hp mark go with T&D shafts or Jesel
Knowing how good ppl are getting 23* heads to flow now days I would save some cash and go with those.
Iam not trying to build your engine for you, this is just my opinion
08-04-2011, 09:51 PM
#35
If only there was a 15-12 degree heads from the factory that also made a six bolt block with an aftermarket to actually make this power level feasible. Just kidding.
Anyway, you are pretty much describing a Busch Grand National engine. Do a little digging and you will be able to find parts and info on these SB2.2's
My dad and uncle used these on their late model stock cars. And would make upwards of 850hp. These are NOT cheap. And there are WAY better ways to do this, but if you are dedicated to the SB2/LT1 then so be it. Just remember, you are pretty much quadrupling the price for entry by going the Gen2 route rather then the Gen3.
Anyway, you are pretty much describing a Busch Grand National engine. Do a little digging and you will be able to find parts and info on these SB2.2's
My dad and uncle used these on their late model stock cars. And would make upwards of 850hp. These are NOT cheap. And there are WAY better ways to do this, but if you are dedicated to the SB2/LT1 then so be it. Just remember, you are pretty much quadrupling the price for entry by going the Gen2 route rather then the Gen3.
08-05-2011, 07:28 AM
#36
Just in the last year a friend had a 750ish HP 40X ci Gen 1 built off a Dart block, wildly custom 23degree heads and intake. I have ideas about what little bits of it cost and you have no idea what you are getting into. I don't know exact numbers because he is not a dyno racer but I know it makes near 750flywheel and I know it goes to 8500rpm. I also know he has a couple sets of lifters so they can be swapped for routine rebuild, betting the custom shaft mounts get rebuilt at least once a year, believe they are only looking at 2000miles out of springs and the cam was tweaked on the spintron for low pressure. He spent more on valves than people here want to spend on heads/cam complete valvetrain and I believe he got the valves near wholesale.
I don't have direct experience but watching a friend go through exactly this and watching his growing pains and having heard prices on a few things I can say conclusively you have no idea what you are in for.
The builder he had in charge of this build is a real professional, like Cup and ProStock stuff.
18 degree will make it a little easier for you but cost, rpm and upkeep are still going to be beyond what you expect and you will need TOP notch support from a very good shop, not an average one and not just a shop with a good internet reputation.
I don't have direct experience but watching a friend go through exactly this and watching his growing pains and having heard prices on a few things I can say conclusively you have no idea what you are in for.
The builder he had in charge of this build is a real professional, like Cup and ProStock stuff.
18 degree will make it a little easier for you but cost, rpm and upkeep are still going to be beyond what you expect and you will need TOP notch support from a very good shop, not an average one and not just a shop with a good internet reputation.
if 750 hp NA was attainable under 7000rpm you wouldn't see cup cars running around at 9500+rpm...........you WILL have to rev the motor to make that power.......done end of story......
doesn't seem like you really want criticism, but I'll throw my hat in the ring anyway.
I understand the point to be different by going 408, but if everyone builds a 383 or 396 its probably for a good reason, why mess with a good thing?
the 4" stroke is gonna make you cut the hell out of the oil pan rails on the block if you use a H beam rod and its gonna put a ton of stress on the walls at high rpm.
stud mount rocker arms? a joke after you break the 500hp mark go with T&D shafts or Jesel
Knowing how good ppl are getting 23* heads to flow now days I would save some cash and go with those.
Iam not trying to build your engine for you, this is just my opinion
I understand the point to be different by going 408, but if everyone builds a 383 or 396 its probably for a good reason, why mess with a good thing?
the 4" stroke is gonna make you cut the hell out of the oil pan rails on the block if you use a H beam rod and its gonna put a ton of stress on the walls at high rpm.
stud mount rocker arms? a joke after you break the 500hp mark go with T&D shafts or Jesel
Knowing how good ppl are getting 23* heads to flow now days I would save some cash and go with those.
Iam not trying to build your engine for you, this is just my opinion
also its apparent that nobody has even read my advice about large stroke/high rpm issues in the stock blocks.........
