How much Gain with UDP & EWP
10-02-2011, 08:05 PM
#21
seriously was that statement necessary?
ok, real world experience. yea i noticed it. i noticed that one charging system trying to support two vehicles. never thought an electric water pump was as significant.
great some useful information. thanks for the tip. i will now proceed to learn something new. couldn't you have just posted this in the first place?
ok, real world experience. yea i noticed it. i noticed that one charging system trying to support two vehicles. never thought an electric water pump was as significant.
great some useful information. thanks for the tip. i will now proceed to learn something new. couldn't you have just posted this in the first place?
I have posted this stuff over and over and over and the vast majority refuse to understand. Look at my join date, been around the block. Paid the $12 to download the SAE documents. I didn't put together a all comforts retained heads/cam b-body that runs faster than most heads/cam f-bodies by being dumb.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; 10-02-2011 at 08:11 PM.
10-02-2011, 10:15 PM
#23
I put on the the underdrive pulley for an ENTIRELY different reason. It slows downs the power steering pump. It increases steering effort marginally(which I like), BUT it's real worth was keeping the power steering from overheating during autocross which I was into at the time. That being said, there was no gain at the 1/4mile track.
Also, the .1 gain from removing the belt is from NOT driving the alternator. The power steering pump only draws 1-2 HP. The AC is free wheeling, but the alternator is dragging down power.
What the same tenth, but don't won't to pull the belt? Put a simple toggle switch on the field wire of the alternator. It gained me 5 rwhp and 10 ft/lbs on the dyno, and the tenth in the 1/4mile.
BTW, my CSI pump has been on the car and trouble-free for a decade. Gained me 8 rwhp and 12 ft/lbs on the dyno.
Also, the .1 gain from removing the belt is from NOT driving the alternator. The power steering pump only draws 1-2 HP. The AC is free wheeling, but the alternator is dragging down power.
What the same tenth, but don't won't to pull the belt? Put a simple toggle switch on the field wire of the alternator. It gained me 5 rwhp and 10 ft/lbs on the dyno, and the tenth in the 1/4mile.
BTW, my CSI pump has been on the car and trouble-free for a decade. Gained me 8 rwhp and 12 ft/lbs on the dyno.
10-02-2011, 10:17 PM
#24
You sit at a desk for a living don't you? No comprehension of how things function, a very sad epidemic.
The electric pump draws far less power from the engine than mechanical because it moves far less water at mid to high rpms, any belief to the contrary is belief in perpetual motion. You can not change forms of energy and get more work back out of it.
The electric pump draws far less power from the engine than mechanical because it moves far less water at mid to high rpms, any belief to the contrary is belief in perpetual motion. You can not change forms of energy and get more work back out of it.
What I do for a living has nothing to do with this thread, although your impression could not be further from fact. Again you stoop to just being a punk *** arrogant self-righteous know it all spouting off crap.
"Cannot change forms of energy and get work back out of it"....ah gearing, leverage are 2 examples of this effect.
A EWP is looking for 7 amps which would, under your $12 downloaded graduate course, draw what… .000000xxx HP more from the engine due to the increased load of an alternator spitting out 135 amps. WTF.
You have an opinion fine but STFU with yourself righteous know it all attitude.
10-02-2011, 10:23 PM
#25
Also, the .1 gain from removing the belt is from NOT driving the alternator. The power steering pump only draws 1-2 HP. The AC is free wheeling, but the alternator is dragging down power.
What the same tenth, but don't won't to pull the belt? Put a simple toggle switch on the field wire of the alternator. It gained me 5 rwhp and 10 ft/lbs on the dyno, and the tenth in the 1/4mile.
I'm surprised no one knows this anymore. Back in the day, us TPI F-guys all did it. We were looking for any tenth we could to beat back those damn 5.0 Mustangs.
Don't believe the alternator can pull that much HP? Next time your in your car with both windows up, press both window switches 'UP'. Your motor will drop in RPM. That is alternator drag on the motor. See how the alternator can pull the HP?
If you don't want to install a switch at the track simply unplug the alternator before a run. Plug in after picking up the timeslip.
10-03-2011, 05:31 AM
#27
The only small gauge wire on the bottom rear of the alt body which can not be reached unless you first remove it assuming you dont have philipino midget sized fingers. Also be ready for a check engine light.
Last edited by wrd1972; 10-03-2011 at 05:36 AM.
10-03-2011, 01:53 PM
#29
And no. I have meaty hands.
10-03-2011, 02:00 PM
#30
IIRC its the DTC50 like you said. Everytime I started the motor without that wire connected, it threw the code. Not sure what would happen if you "disconnected" it with the motor running. Regardless once you have the code, flip your switch closed before starting and your golden.
10-03-2011, 02:12 PM
#31
IIRC its the DTC50 like you said. Everytime I started the motor without that wire connected, it threw the code. Not sure what would happen if you "disconnected" it with the motor running. Regardless once you have the code, flip your switch closed before starting and your golden.
10-03-2011, 08:46 PM
#32
If you pull the belt you bypass spinning the rotating weight of the alternator and the load of the power steering.
The switch idea seems interesting for a car that has a belt driven waterpump so you have to keep the belt on, but for the LT1...........................
The switch idea seems interesting for a car that has a belt driven waterpump so you have to keep the belt on, but for the LT1...........................
10-04-2011, 08:24 AM
#33
Underdrive pulleys with stock idle are likely to cause charging issues too.
A cam with raised idle and you wont see that negative but the only time I really see them being good is if the engine turns big rpms, enough to hurt accessories, or a road race car that overheats the PS system.
Yes folks do use electric pumps on daily drivers, and a FEW of them are man enough to admit it when the failure damages an engine. How many can't admit it?
A cam with raised idle and you wont see that negative but the only time I really see them being good is if the engine turns big rpms, enough to hurt accessories, or a road race car that overheats the PS system.
Yes folks do use electric pumps on daily drivers, and a FEW of them are man enough to admit it when the failure damages an engine. How many can't admit it?
10-04-2011, 08:50 AM
#34
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Again someone not capable of anything resembling basic comprehension.
Ever jump start another vehicle? Notice how the running one's idle hiccups when the connection is made? That is the extra load being pulled from the alternator, on old carbed stuff with no idle control it would lower the idle due to load.
The alternator can not pull a whole lot of load on the engine though rather than hold your hand through this and have you ignore it go out on the internet and search for conversion tables, you can convert amps at volts to HP.
There is SAE published data on the mechanical pump using 11 hp to move 66gpm though the closed cooling system.
The electrics are freeflow rated, being an impeller not a positive displacement pump restriction means a LOT. Many have documented increased cruise temps from the electrics if they view through the pcm rather than the dash.
They have their place, BUT IMO it is for cars looking for that last .1 at the track.
I have put over 250K miles on my LT1 cars all after buying them used, I know my way around this stuff.
Another point for mechanical vs electric is either you should buy TWO electrics so you have a spare, a mechanical gives you more warning and you can get them local 7 days a week.
Ever jump start another vehicle? Notice how the running one's idle hiccups when the connection is made? That is the extra load being pulled from the alternator, on old carbed stuff with no idle control it would lower the idle due to load.
The alternator can not pull a whole lot of load on the engine though rather than hold your hand through this and have you ignore it go out on the internet and search for conversion tables, you can convert amps at volts to HP.
There is SAE published data on the mechanical pump using 11 hp to move 66gpm though the closed cooling system.
The electrics are freeflow rated, being an impeller not a positive displacement pump restriction means a LOT. Many have documented increased cruise temps from the electrics if they view through the pcm rather than the dash.
They have their place, BUT IMO it is for cars looking for that last .1 at the track.
I have put over 250K miles on my LT1 cars all after buying them used, I know my way around this stuff.
Another point for mechanical vs electric is either you should buy TWO electrics so you have a spare, a mechanical gives you more warning and you can get them local 7 days a week.
I have posted this stuff over and over and over and the vast majority refuse to understand. Look at my join date, been around the block. Paid the $12 to download the SAE documents. I didn't put together a all comforts retained heads/cam b-body that runs faster than most heads/cam f-bodies by being dumb.
10-04-2011, 05:36 PM
#35
10-04-2011, 06:46 PM
#36
It is flat-out wrong to tell someone they should leave a public board simply because you dont like his "style" or information that he offers. The information he offers is usually sound and he does have good results to back it up.
It is no secret to anyone here (as well as many other boards) that he is abrasive and arrogant but I suggest you challenge him on your points. I personally think he is a pompous ******* at times for his presentation but I feel compelled to say he has the right to be be here and act that way if he chooses.
It is no secret to anyone here (as well as many other boards) that he is abrasive and arrogant but I suggest you challenge him on your points. I personally think he is a pompous ******* at times for his presentation but I feel compelled to say he has the right to be be here and act that way if he chooses.
10-04-2011, 06:56 PM
#37
It is flat-out wrong to tell someone they should leave a public board simply because you dont like his "style" or information that he offers. The information he offers is usually sound and he does have good results to back it up.
It is no secret to anyone here (as well as many other boards) that he is abrasive and arrogant but I suggest you challenge him on your points. I personally think he is a pompous ******* at times for his presentation but I feel compelled to say he has the right to be be here and act that way if he chooses.
It is no secret to anyone here (as well as many other boards) that he is abrasive and arrogant but I suggest you challenge him on your points. I personally think he is a pompous ******* at times for his presentation but I feel compelled to say he has the right to be be here and act that way if he chooses.
10-04-2011, 11:20 PM
#39
Yes, it will illuminate a 'check engine light' because the alternator isn't charging. But after your 1/4mile run, plug it back in for the drive to the staging lanes and the light go's off. Rinse and repeat.
I should mention this is a mod for non-nitrous motors only. With the load my N2O solonoids and stand=alone fuel tank require, I need to keep my alternator activated. So I haven't used it after installing my nitrous kit.
