Is 7 quarts overfilling it for a Moroso 20185 pan?
11-11-2011, 04:12 PM
#21
NEGATIVE. The full mark on the dipstick is below the windage tray.
If you've filled the crankcase to a level above the windage tray, it's mark on the dipstick gauge will be above the full mark.
Regardless of oil pan used, the dipstick gauge does not move or change-and neither does the full oil level mark which is dictated by the engine, not the pan.
The oil level indicated on the stick has nothing to do with how much oil you've put into the oil pan to get to the full mark on the stick.
If you've filled the crankcase to a level above the windage tray, it's mark on the dipstick gauge will be above the full mark.
Regardless of oil pan used, the dipstick gauge does not move or change-and neither does the full oil level mark which is dictated by the engine, not the pan.
The oil level indicated on the stick has nothing to do with how much oil you've put into the oil pan to get to the full mark on the stick.
11-12-2011, 10:36 AM
#23
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I don't get why so many don't understand. The stick is on the block and does not move unless you modify it somehow. What kind of pan,filter or cooler you use just means how much more or less oil your adding. Fill and check till your close and run it then let it sit for a min and check. I always run a 1/2 qt low to prevent windage on hard launches or corners but that's what I like.
11-12-2011, 11:32 AM
#24
I don't get why so many don't understand. The stick is on the block and does not move unless you modify it somehow. What kind of pan,filter or cooler you use just means how much more or less oil your adding. Fill and check till your close and run it then let it sit for a min and check. I always run a 1/2 qt low to prevent windage on hard launches or corners but that's what I like.
It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp... especially considering the people who make the pans for a living will tell you the same exact thing.
11-12-2011, 12:42 PM
#25
Village Troll 
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I don't get why so many don't understand. The stick is on the block and does not move unless you modify it somehow. What kind of pan,filter or cooler you use just means how much more or less oil your adding. Fill and check till your close and run it then let it sit for a min and check. I always run a 1/2 qt low to prevent windage on hard launches or corners but that's what I like.
11-12-2011, 01:07 PM
#27
I also don't get why so many don't get this.
The oil level below the crankshaft and windage tray is a set height and does not change regardless of what pan, it's capacity or type of windage tray might be installed.
The "filled" level of oil in these engines is just above the oil level sensor. This is below the windage tray.
Again guys, the level needs to be maintained regardless of how deep or the capacity of the pan.
Install whatever pan you choose to. Fill the engine with oil (slowly to allow it to all trickle/drain down to the pan) then check it's level on the STOCK dipstick gauge.
When at the full mark, you've put in enough oil to be where the engine needs it.
Start the engine. Run a bit. Shut it down and wait a bit to let the oil level normalize. Check the dipstick gauge again. It dropped because of an oil cooler or the filter got filled? Top off until the gauge reads at the full mark.
The oil level below the crankshaft and windage tray is a set height and does not change regardless of what pan, it's capacity or type of windage tray might be installed.
The "filled" level of oil in these engines is just above the oil level sensor. This is below the windage tray.
Again guys, the level needs to be maintained regardless of how deep or the capacity of the pan.
Install whatever pan you choose to. Fill the engine with oil (slowly to allow it to all trickle/drain down to the pan) then check it's level on the STOCK dipstick gauge.
When at the full mark, you've put in enough oil to be where the engine needs it.
Start the engine. Run a bit. Shut it down and wait a bit to let the oil level normalize. Check the dipstick gauge again. It dropped because of an oil cooler or the filter got filled? Top off until the gauge reads at the full mark.
11-12-2011, 01:24 PM
#28
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
I don't get why you don't get this. I would suggest getting a 242t pan, filling it to Canton's six quart recommendation and see what your dipstick says. Next, fill it to full mark, get a mechanical oil pressure gauge, do some acceleration runs and see what happens. Just as simple as that.
11-12-2011, 06:19 PM
#29
I also don't get why so many don't get this.
The oil level below the crankshaft and windage tray is a set height and does not change regardless of what pan, it's capacity or type of windage tray might be installed.
The "filled" level of oil in these engines is just above the oil level sensor. This is below the windage tray.
Again guys, the level needs to be maintained regardless of how deep or the capacity of the pan.
Install whatever pan you choose to. Fill the engine with oil (slowly to allow it to all trickle/drain down to the pan) then check it's level on the STOCK dipstick gauge.
When at the full mark, you've put in enough oil to be where the engine needs it.
Start the engine. Run a bit. Shut it down and wait a bit to let the oil level normalize. Check the dipstick gauge again. It dropped because of an oil cooler or the filter got filled? Top off until the gauge reads at the full mark.
The oil level below the crankshaft and windage tray is a set height and does not change regardless of what pan, it's capacity or type of windage tray might be installed.
The "filled" level of oil in these engines is just above the oil level sensor. This is below the windage tray.
Again guys, the level needs to be maintained regardless of how deep or the capacity of the pan.
Install whatever pan you choose to. Fill the engine with oil (slowly to allow it to all trickle/drain down to the pan) then check it's level on the STOCK dipstick gauge.
When at the full mark, you've put in enough oil to be where the engine needs it.
Start the engine. Run a bit. Shut it down and wait a bit to let the oil level normalize. Check the dipstick gauge again. It dropped because of an oil cooler or the filter got filled? Top off until the gauge reads at the full mark.
11-13-2011, 05:23 PM
#32
OK guys, here it is:
I decided because of how strongly the differing opinions were defended, I took the time and trouble to speak to a few folks who earn their livings in motorsports.
Two guys own a racing machine and head porting shop, they mostly work on big and small block Chevys, LS engines and Ford and MOPAR V-8 engines. They also have race cars and have been in the business 25+ years. Their work has been showcased several years ago I think in Super Chevy.
The other guy owns and operates a racing shop, runs full body and rail drag cars as well as building the same for others. In business 35+ years.
They all agree. The oil level is set by the design of the engine block and should not be changed regardless of pan used. Larger capacity pans allow more oil in the sump but where the top of the oil level is a constant.
They’ve gone on to say that Canton pans aren’t that great and are not as prevalent at the track in professional level racing as they are in “bolt on street applications”. None of these people use or recommend Canton pans although they occasionally use some of the unique adapters and fittings Canton offers. They’re saying Stefs Fabrication and Moroso pans are the better choice.
They’ve also said that this is why they and many other pro racing shops don’t bother with websites and online forums because there’s too many big sounding people making big noise about things when they really don’t know what they’re talking about. These guys all do say one thing: Messing with the oil level is a mistake.
I have a Canton pan on my Monte’s big block. It’s been on it since the late ‘80's. It’s been a long time but I do recall having some issue with it at the time. Today, if ever I take it all apart again, it’ll get a Stefs. I used a Stefs pan on my ‘94 Formula.
My thoughts at this point? If you for some reason feel changing the filled oil level in your engine is the correct move to make, do so. If the pan maker tells you to change the filled oil level, then listen to them. Or, you could maintain the oil fill level that the engine was designed to have. However, you should be aware that changing the pan to a deeper or higher capacity pan or the use of a aftermarket windage tray (which GM calls an “oil deflector” which they installed on every LT1 & LS engine) does NOT change the factory designed oil fill level.
I’m not here to anger or **** off people. As I’m almost 50, I have no patience for sophomore or childish games and bullshit. Be aware that I’ve been wrenching on Chevy’s longer than many posters on LS1tech have even been alive.
Internet advice is just that-advice. In real world use, unless you operate a racing shop of your own, consult an experienced pro-level racing engine builder, just like I did today to post all this.
Tiger, eh? Old enough to remember “put a tiger in your tank”?
I decided because of how strongly the differing opinions were defended, I took the time and trouble to speak to a few folks who earn their livings in motorsports.
Two guys own a racing machine and head porting shop, they mostly work on big and small block Chevys, LS engines and Ford and MOPAR V-8 engines. They also have race cars and have been in the business 25+ years. Their work has been showcased several years ago I think in Super Chevy.
The other guy owns and operates a racing shop, runs full body and rail drag cars as well as building the same for others. In business 35+ years.
They all agree. The oil level is set by the design of the engine block and should not be changed regardless of pan used. Larger capacity pans allow more oil in the sump but where the top of the oil level is a constant.
They’ve gone on to say that Canton pans aren’t that great and are not as prevalent at the track in professional level racing as they are in “bolt on street applications”. None of these people use or recommend Canton pans although they occasionally use some of the unique adapters and fittings Canton offers. They’re saying Stefs Fabrication and Moroso pans are the better choice.
They’ve also said that this is why they and many other pro racing shops don’t bother with websites and online forums because there’s too many big sounding people making big noise about things when they really don’t know what they’re talking about. These guys all do say one thing: Messing with the oil level is a mistake.
I have a Canton pan on my Monte’s big block. It’s been on it since the late ‘80's. It’s been a long time but I do recall having some issue with it at the time. Today, if ever I take it all apart again, it’ll get a Stefs. I used a Stefs pan on my ‘94 Formula.
My thoughts at this point? If you for some reason feel changing the filled oil level in your engine is the correct move to make, do so. If the pan maker tells you to change the filled oil level, then listen to them. Or, you could maintain the oil fill level that the engine was designed to have. However, you should be aware that changing the pan to a deeper or higher capacity pan or the use of a aftermarket windage tray (which GM calls an “oil deflector” which they installed on every LT1 & LS engine) does NOT change the factory designed oil fill level.
I’m not here to anger or **** off people. As I’m almost 50, I have no patience for sophomore or childish games and bullshit. Be aware that I’ve been wrenching on Chevy’s longer than many posters on LS1tech have even been alive.
Internet advice is just that-advice. In real world use, unless you operate a racing shop of your own, consult an experienced pro-level racing engine builder, just like I did today to post all this.
Tiger, eh? Old enough to remember “put a tiger in your tank”?
11-13-2011, 05:50 PM
#33
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
Very enlightening. Basically, what I should do, is this- Instead of following my own findings with my own pan, take your word for whomever it is you talked to with all that build cred, fill that sumbitch up to where it says FULL and go crazy. Oh hell, don't worry about windage issues. Even though it's only a six quart pan you should be able to fill it to 7 or more quarts because, the oil level doesn't change. Different style windage tray? Fuggetaboudit! Forget how your oil pressure gauge slams to zero under heavy acceleration. The oil level DOES NOT CHANGE! PERIOD! END OF STORY! ARE YOU STILL HERE? LEAVE! GO FILL THAT BITCH UP TO FULL! NOW! BE GONE!
Just who you are and who you've talked to and how old you are doesn't mean a hill of beans when you are giving out crap information that's nothing more than mere opinion.
Just who you are and who you've talked to and how old you are doesn't mean a hill of beans when you are giving out crap information that's nothing more than mere opinion.
Last edited by SS RRR; 11-13-2011 at 06:12 PM.
11-13-2011, 06:17 PM
#34
Very enlightening. Basically, what I should do, is this- Instead of following my own findings with my own pan, take your word for whomever it is you talked to with all that build cred, fill that sumbitch up to where it says FULL and go crazy. Oh hell, don't worry about windage issues. Even though it's only a six quart pan you should be able to fill it to 7 or more quarts because, the oil level doesn't change. Different style windage tray? Fuggetaboudit! Forget how your oil pressure gauge slams to zero under heavy acceleration. The oil level DOES NOT CHANGE! PERIOD! END OF STORY! ARE YOU STILL HERE? LEAVE! GO FILL THAT BITCH UP TO FULL! NOW! BE GONE!
Just who you are and who you've talked to and how old you are doesn't mean a hill of beans when you are giving out crap information that's nothing more than mere opinion.
Just who you are and who you've talked to and how old you are doesn't mean a hill of beans when you are giving out crap information that's nothing more than mere opinion.
Apparently this genius doesn't think changing the windage tray depth would have an impact on the desired oil level.
