WTF harmonic balancer issues?
If u reuse the stock hub heat that ****** up in an oven on 400deg for 20min then tap it into location on the crank snout..I did.. then, Check this.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...tall-tool.html
Instead of hardened threaded rod(that wasn't locally available) I used a lesser grade from a hardware store with it a combo of greased washers and I used two tall nuts to have the press load spread across more thread contact (forget what they call those nuts) . Worked great
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...tall-tool.html
Instead of hardened threaded rod(that wasn't locally available) I used a lesser grade from a hardware store with it a combo of greased washers and I used two tall nuts to have the press load spread across more thread contact (forget what they call those nuts) . Worked great
Last edited by defaultexistence; Jun 12, 2012 at 02:15 PM.
If u reuse the stock hub heat that ****** up in an oven on 400deg for 20min then tap it into location on the crank snout..I did.. then, Check this.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...tall-tool.html
Instead of hardened threaded rod(that wasn't locally available) I used a lesser grade from a hardware store with it a combo of greased washers and I used two tall nuts to have the press load spread across more thread contact (forget what they call those nuts) . Worked great
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...tall-tool.html
Instead of hardened threaded rod(that wasn't locally available) I used a lesser grade from a hardware store with it a combo of greased washers and I used two tall nuts to have the press load spread across more thread contact (forget what they call those nuts) . Worked great
The easiest thing to do is to get ahold of whoever built the engine. They should have given you a build sheet to tell you of such things. My only ideas are those holes aren't for the engine, but rather to zero balance the damper. If the builders followed stock balance protocol, the engine is indeed externally balanced in the rear via flywheel/flex plate and internally balanced up front along with using a zero balanced damper. People have argued by claiming the holes they see in their damper are indeed to balance the engine, and then state "... but I compared it to another damper and the holes are different." It's crap. Stock dampers need to be zero balanced and the holes will not be in exact locations from one to another. With all this mumbo/jumbo stated, I'd either call the engine builder. If no information can be divulged then I'd take the damper to a machine shop, have it spun to see if it is indeed zero balanced or not.
Is the crank keyed for your damper/balancer?
Is the crank keyed for your damper/balancer?
.. so I can't just bolt the stock one on.....have to get it balance matched by a machine shop to the failed balancer
IF that is possible since the middle of the balancer free wheels and there's no rubber left at all....I'll call up my machine shop guy again and see what he has to say about all this. Nothing is easy with this car
Buy an SFI LT1 balancer from jegs & they balanced the motor but I highly doubt they drilled holes in the balancer when they built the motor The place than manufactured the balancer drilled it lol Call JEGS that balancer will handle 10 or 12000rpm
...it's BOTH internally and externally balanced BOTH FRONT AND REAR if that makes sense 
.....I realize the aftermarket balancer was originally zero balanced BUT per the seller: "I believe they're zero balanced like oem, that one had to have weight removed due to where the weight needed to be to actually balance it out" "The rotating assembly was balanced as one unit. The shop that balanced it needed to add mallory at the front counterweight of the crank, and offset it at the balancer (it was drilled to remove weight)."That particular balancer could not even handle 6500 rpm...I have not been pushing the motor or racing it and the POS came apart. **** keeps getting more complicated...now I NEED a keyed balancer since it is not zero balanced so I guess I can't use the stock one....I'm fucked as far as making my dyno day Monday
I have a headache now.Would this work (once it's balance matched)? How do you know it's not made in China unless you spend big $$ on an ATI?
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...51605/10002/-1
Goddamn communists have tainted our nation's harmonic balancer supplies. Buy American! 
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Verdad Gallardo After doing some research on the internets....I'm not the only one whose Chinese Professional products POS balancer came apart 
:
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2254
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...c.php?t=66536&
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...r-failure.html
On a somewhat positive note however, I just spoke with my machine shop guy about my problems....he recommend the Fluidampr balancer....he said the fluid automatically balances it's self so no drilling the balancer is required
Only problem it's expensive as hell...but still cheaper than getting an ATI and paying to have it drilled/balance matched. What's a good sponsor or who is selling a Fluidampr?
:http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2254
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...c.php?t=66536&
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...r-failure.html
On a somewhat positive note however, I just spoke with my machine shop guy about my problems....he recommend the Fluidampr balancer....he said the fluid automatically balances it's self so no drilling the balancer is required
Only problem it's expensive as hell...but still cheaper than getting an ATI and paying to have it drilled/balance matched. What's a good sponsor or who is selling a Fluidampr? 
[QUOTE=ahritchie;16414595]..... I just spoke with my machine shop guy about my problems....he recommend the Fluidampr balancer....he said the fluid automatically balances it's self so no drilling the balancer is required .....QUOTE]
I have to call bullsh!t on that one. It really sounds to me like you're being led down paths by a crapshooter.
And IF the shop actually balanced that engine by removing weight from the damper, that guy should be kicked in the nuts. I still question whether you got the right answer on that one.
.....QUOTE]I have to call bullsh!t on that one. It really sounds to me like you're being led down paths by a crapshooter.
And IF the shop actually balanced that engine by removing weight from the damper, that guy should be kicked in the nuts. I still question whether you got the right answer on that one.
[QUOTE=bowtienut;16414728] How so? Please clarify. The machine shop guy I talked to did not build the motor...he's a local guy trying to help me fix the weirdo internal/external balance job the seller/buiilder of the shortblock did. He simply recommended the Fluidampr because it should not need any balance match as opposed to any other balancer that would since my balancer was drilled when they balanced the rotating assembly. Are you saying the seller/builder of the shortblock is full of it or the machine shop dude
..... I just spoke with my machine shop guy about my problems....he recommend the Fluidampr balancer....he said the fluid automatically balances it's self so no drilling the balancer is required .....QUOTE]
I have to call bullsh!t on that one. It really sounds to me like you're being led down paths by a crapshooter.
And IF the shop actually balanced that engine by removing weight from the damper, that guy should be kicked in the nuts. I still question whether you got the right answer on that one.
.....QUOTE]I have to call bullsh!t on that one. It really sounds to me like you're being led down paths by a crapshooter.
And IF the shop actually balanced that engine by removing weight from the damper, that guy should be kicked in the nuts. I still question whether you got the right answer on that one.
I wouldn't trust EITHER one of them!
A Fluidamper does NOT provide any balancing......that's just nonsense. It's a damper, not a balancer. You'd be just as well off putting a stock damper on it, or whatever you can get to fit the hub you have.
I would put a neutral balance damper on it and see if there's noticeable vibration. If not, you're good to go. Unlike an unbalance on the crank throw/counterweights themselves, any unbalance at the damper or at the flywheel is going to be more noticeable to YOU than it will be harmful to the engine. Think about it: with a weighted damper, you're actually putting a bending moment on the crank snout to counteract imbalance inside the motor, just so everything OUTSIDE the motor doesn't feel it.
A Fluidamper does NOT provide any balancing......that's just nonsense. It's a damper, not a balancer. You'd be just as well off putting a stock damper on it, or whatever you can get to fit the hub you have.
I would put a neutral balance damper on it and see if there's noticeable vibration. If not, you're good to go. Unlike an unbalance on the crank throw/counterweights themselves, any unbalance at the damper or at the flywheel is going to be more noticeable to YOU than it will be harmful to the engine. Think about it: with a weighted damper, you're actually putting a bending moment on the crank snout to counteract imbalance inside the motor, just so everything OUTSIDE the motor doesn't feel it.
I wouldn't trust EITHER one of them!
A Fluidamper does NOT provide any balancing......that's just nonsense. It's a damper, not a balancer. You'd be just as well off putting a stock damper on it, or whatever you can get to fit the hub you have.
I would put a neutral balance damper on it and see if there's noticeable vibration. If not, you're good to go. Unlike an unbalance on the crank throw/counterweights themselves, any unbalance at the damper or at the flywheel is going to be more noticeable to YOU than it will be harmful to the engine. Think about it: with a weighted damper, you're actually putting a bending moment on the crank snout to counteract imbalance inside the motor, just so everything OUTSIDE the motor doesn't feel it.
A Fluidamper does NOT provide any balancing......that's just nonsense. It's a damper, not a balancer. You'd be just as well off putting a stock damper on it, or whatever you can get to fit the hub you have.
I would put a neutral balance damper on it and see if there's noticeable vibration. If not, you're good to go. Unlike an unbalance on the crank throw/counterweights themselves, any unbalance at the damper or at the flywheel is going to be more noticeable to YOU than it will be harmful to the engine. Think about it: with a weighted damper, you're actually putting a bending moment on the crank snout to counteract imbalance inside the motor, just so everything OUTSIDE the motor doesn't feel it.
Damper Facts:
1.) Most stock dampers are actually tuned absorbers and do not work when the the engine is modified from the original set-up.
2.) The damper is not a balancer. It's job is to control torsional vibrations.
3.) The silicone inside a Fluidampr will not expire and is not effected by temperature change.
4.) An externally balanced assembly should be balanced with only the counterweight or stock damper installed.
I guess I will try going back to the stock balancer/hub and see if there's bad vibration and take it from there....this is such a clusterfuck it's not even funny.
New plan of action New plan:I decided to at least upgrade the damper a little bit over stock since the stock one is nearly 20 years old....I bought the JEGS unit...it will handle 12,500 RPM as added insurance in the event I over-rev it
it is a 6 spd after all. Hopefully should be here by tomorrow and I can bolt it right up to the existing aftermarket hub with the dowl locator. So I won't have to fool with removing the hub and possibly striping the crank threads. Maybe I can make my dyno day after all
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...oductId=757291
If it doesn't shake the car apart from not being balance matched to the POS failed damper....I'm taking it to Alvin at PCM for less to beat the crap out of it for a couple days on the dyno and see what happens...
Both the machine shops I talked to seemed highly sceptical of being able to balance match the POS in pieces to a new one unfortunately.
it is a 6 spd after all. Hopefully should be here by tomorrow and I can bolt it right up to the existing aftermarket hub with the dowl locator. So I won't have to fool with removing the hub and possibly striping the crank threads. Maybe I can make my dyno day after all http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...oductId=757291
If it doesn't shake the car apart from not being balance matched to the POS failed damper....I'm taking it to Alvin at PCM for less to beat the crap out of it for a couple days on the dyno and see what happens...
Both the machine shops I talked to seemed highly sceptical of being able to balance match the POS in pieces to a new one unfortunately.
At work now...it's been on the Fedex truck for delivery since 5:25 this morning lol....patiently waiting to go home and see if the sucker fits right (I think it will looking at your hub; mines identical). All this last minute trouble before dyno day Monday has me anxious/nervous/excited....hopefully everything falls into place before Monday. Pray to the LT1 gods lmao 
Chances are the Jegs is rebranded, based on price I would be concerned it is rebranded Professional Products. I have made no attempt to visually compare then though, never handled either and run stock myself.
Maybe the real lesson here is about just how bad it can be to buy a built engine or car from another enthusiast and just how badly MANY MANY shops do their job.
The engine should be done like stock or completely zero balance external as in no flexplate weight. Any shop that is going to drill a damper to balance one of these is incompetent. Let them work on 40 year old stuff, even that old stuff that was external at the front I believe used a weight so you could transfer it to a new damper should replacement be needed.
The way you have been told this was built and in a position like you are in now with a destroyed damper to try and match the only right way to do it would be to rip out the rotating assembly and rebalance.
I am not arguing with Pat, Pat might be right and the damper might not have been modified, I think either way the guy is an incompetent either by doing things wrong or informing you wrongly about how it was balanced.
Far as the keyed thing the stock crank is keyed, the stock damper hub is not. Far as I know all gen 1 and gen 2 cranks are keyed.
Maybe the real lesson here is about just how bad it can be to buy a built engine or car from another enthusiast and just how badly MANY MANY shops do their job.
The engine should be done like stock or completely zero balance external as in no flexplate weight. Any shop that is going to drill a damper to balance one of these is incompetent. Let them work on 40 year old stuff, even that old stuff that was external at the front I believe used a weight so you could transfer it to a new damper should replacement be needed.
The way you have been told this was built and in a position like you are in now with a destroyed damper to try and match the only right way to do it would be to rip out the rotating assembly and rebalance.
I am not arguing with Pat, Pat might be right and the damper might not have been modified, I think either way the guy is an incompetent either by doing things wrong or informing you wrongly about how it was balanced.
Far as the keyed thing the stock crank is keyed, the stock damper hub is not. Far as I know all gen 1 and gen 2 cranks are keyed.
Can't get it in the hole! This car is going to fight me to death....the JEGS unit came and looks real nice; I weighed them on my bathroom scale for ***** and it was 1.5 lbs heavier. The freakin dowl locator on the PP hub is barely keeping the JEGS damper from seating on the hub Can I get my buddy to bring his drill over and slightly drill it out just a bit to make it fit? The dowl locator hole LOOKS identical but isn't to the failed PP POS. Here's some pics of what I'm working with....I scrached the paint and you can see how it barely does not fit:
Can I get my buddy to bring his drill over and slightly drill it out just a bit to make it fit? The dowl locator hole LOOKS identical but isn't to the failed PP POS. Here's some pics of what I'm working with....I scrached the paint and you can see how it barely does not fit: Last edited by ahritchie; Jun 15, 2012 at 06:04 PM.