Alright well...heres what I need help with, this is what im dealing with as of right now. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Last track outing brought back so/so times of 13.3x @ 104.x. 2.0 60' @ ~2600DA, add more throttle and it would spin, any less and it would get worse...thank you oh wonderful track prep. To put things in perspective a friends 439rwhp mustang was running 12.8's @ 112mph on et streets.

So its a 226/232 .606/.603 108lsa cam, stock heads, stock bottom end, heads have never been off engine. Running patriot 8401 springs, trickflow pushrods, ls7 lifters and comp ultra pro mag 1.6 rockers. Exhaust is jet hot long tubes, hooker off road y and magnaflow catback. 3500 tci converter thats somehow still alive, 3.23 rear end, nt555r's out back. Also Ls1 SLP intake conversion. PCMforless tune. Suspension is LG motorsports coilovers, pavlock lca's, I thought a 2.0x 60' with 200lb/in rear springs was actually the only good thing about the outing..apart from not blowing my engine.

I retuned the car to shift at 6000-6100 and it completed the shift around 6200 or so. I just wanted to get some test runs to make sure it wasnt gonna blow up since it was my first cam install.

I for one think my MPH is low, the time isnt bad considering the mph, but I thought I should be atleast around 108 or so. DA corrected it wouldve been a 12.9 @ 107run I think, but lets face it, the time on the slip is the time you ran.

All of this brings me to the next step...

option 1 - I have a innovate mtx-l wideband, not installed yet, that I was told by one tuner reads off and isnt really a good measure of a/f, and told by another tuner "it reads good enough to get an idea of what you need to do". I think tuner 1 is right in saying if you dont know your exact a/f ratio, then its not really worth using as a measure. Dyno run is 100$ for 3 runs to get an a/f reading, then I can go to either tuner and get retuned and hope I pick up power. One tuner is 50$, one is ~300$

Option 2 - set shift points to 6500 again and go back to the track and see if I pick up 4mph. Getting retuned will probably set my shift points back to around 6500rpm as well. the 6000-6100 was just a test run

Option 3 - Drop to 1.5 rockers and see if anything better happens. I knew .606/.603 might not work going into this and was prepared to drop to 1.5's which puts lift at .568/.565, more in the stock lt1 head flow range.

Option 4 - Ditch the cam and go to a more friendly cam, honestly considering the hotcam, its going faster then my cam right now anyways lol.

option 5 - stop bitching and get the car to 60' under 2.0x lol.

anyways thanks for reading and thanks for your opinions. I'd like to see how other people would handle this.

 

Man I figured some people would have some input on this. If it was your car what would you do, thats all Im wondering.

 

I'd scan-data log the car to see if there is a problem, it could be the tune. Then try option #2 with some real tires.

 

The lift is not going to hurt "because it is too much for the heads" it might hurt in that that doesn't really seem like enough spring. If you pick up ET/MPH by going 1.5s I would guess it was because you delayed float.
I also find your lift funny in the face of a recent post about .530 being about max with reasonable seal clearance. https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...clearance.html

Your stall brand is at best hit and miss, pretty much considered junk for the 4L60E and your gear is hurting you too, never getting near the top of the powerband in third. If you couldn't hook though then I guess you need to start with chassis work before you worry about a decent stall, gears might help you hook a little though, I know that sounds odd but I think you will enjoy the car more with 3.73-4.10 anyway so do it.

The tune I would question and try and verify AFR.

If you can keep the cam under control I would try and stick with it.
Get a copy of Datamaster and a cable, it is free for the first 20 uses. If the airflow goes haywire at the upper rpms then that is an indication of float.

 

That cam is very aggressive and shifting below the power curve is killing you. I think you definetly need to raise your limiter to 6500. Gears are definetly hurting you as im sure LE requests to run it with 373 or 410s.

 

I would say gears, and a dyno tune. If your stall is giving you problems get a better one. Maybe get some bigger injectors. That is a lot of cam for a otherwise stock engine. Bigger isnt always better...but, since it is already in there i would upgrade other things and eventually you will get where you want to be.

 

Lol, I dont know, I saw that thread but didnt take it much to heart. Car has been running fine, if .530 was the case cc306 cars would be screwed, along with alot of other people with cams running lift higher then .530.

As far as valve float I dont know if Im experiencing any or not, the 8401's are a good spring. I couldnt run the 8501's due to install height, but LE said the 8401's would be fine when I told him about the issue. All that being said, I have a cable and tunerproRT, I may try to download datamaster this weekend and see whats up, its probably a better program, tunerpro is glichy. Ive datalogged a few times with it to check for knock and just see whats going on.

What airflow data do I look at to see if I have float? IF datamaster can datalog I may do a run or two this weekend and log it.


It also seems like upgrading gears is being said alot. The car did go through the traps at a pretty low rpm. The converter would lock up and the rpms would drop under 5500, maybe even to 4700-4900rpm I cant remember exactly.

The cam is aggressive, that much is forsure. Thats why Im wondering if I should just throw a hotcam in it and be on my way. It would eliminate some things on its own. Noone has really had luck with this cam, so its not something that suprises me.

Thank you for your input! Given me alot to think about.

 

I would not pull the cam, if you find indication that it is floating I would change springs and or rockers first, cheaper and less effort.

Next time at the track maybe consider touching the brakes enough to activate the switch and keep the converter unlocked, it will probably go faster.

Far as what to look at in datamaster AFGS air flow grams per second is what you will look at.

 

What will AFGS show me if there is float vs not? This is good information when I really dont want to go to a dyno.

I also dont know if there is a better spring that can be installed at stock height, It doesnt seem like its valve float but hell ive never experienced it either. another couple hundred of rpm may show different though.

I will check it out this weekend. I might get the wideband installed to finally to see if I can get an idea of what my a/f is at.

 

First.. If you have a wideband, why in the hell do you not have it installed, if you dont know what your afr's are doing and are suspect???

Second.. Yes, the high lift MIGHT be causing a slight power loss. The heads would have to be flowed to be sure. But like others have said, the high lift and larger cam might be causing float issues.

With having a stock bottom-end i wouldn't shift further than 6200. Any more is just asking for a spun bearing.

might be time for a rod upgrade or something else...

 

The "importance" of having heads flowed to get cam spec'd is pretty much a myth. I mean it is just a 23 degree SBC head. The argument can even be made that by going a little past the peak flow of the head you cause the valve to spend more time in peak flow much like we do with shifting a car, you rev past peak to spend more time near peak. Not exactly the same because a shift doesn't drop all the way to zero power like a valve does close completely but it is a workable analogy.


Far as what AFGS will do it it is floating you will just see the number go haywire.

 

Another member on here aswell as myself have had issues with LEs cams and not sufficient springs. I was running a PAC 1518 1.800 130lb seat and was going to use the Patriot 8501 Xtremes as Lloyd wanted to see 155lb seat pressure. Since the Xtremes are on mass back order i called LE to see what he would want me to run. He sent me a DIY kit with Crane 99893 sbc springs and lt1 spec retainers and locks. These springs setup at 1.800 gave me 150-155lb seat and now my car pulls all the way to 6500. Before it would pull to 6100 and die.

 

Its a mail order tune, its a given that its rich and theres power on the table, but as to why its not installed yet is basically because ive been busy and the car isnt where I am. Need to take the y pipe off and take it in to get the bung welded in.

I wouldnt be installed @ 1.800. I would be at 1.7x..whatever stock heads are. I forget the installed height with these springs on a stock head. IF I am seeing valve float perhaps LE can help me out with some springs or Im just going to switch cams to something more friendly, down time is not an issue and I think I could do it in a weekend this time around anyways. I'm starting to lose faith in this cam. The springs are 135 @ 1.800, With the shorter install height I think im closer to 142-145 or something. closed pressure is 375lbs. Ive been focusing more on the fact that they are not broken, since thats what 2 other people who ran this cam had problems with.

Saturday I will hopefully get the wideband bung welded in, and get a datamaster run to see whats going on. Then go from there.

 

well, got off work early and pulled the y pipe section off and took it to a muffler shop and had the wideband bung welded in. Cant complain for 10 bucks either. I put it on the passenger side pipe, hopefully thats ok, it seems to be the side that is sealed better compared to the drivers side having a few tiny leaks. This weekend should be a good car weekend! Get alot of things figured out I hope.

 

Man Im an idiot. I took the y pipe off to take it to get welded like in above post. Today Im going to put it back on. Well guess what happens when you try to slide the flange back onto the pipe when you put a 02 bung in that sticks out half an inch....IT WONT SLIDE ON!?!?! AMAZING!!!! However could this happen!........

Thinking the only solution is to cut both flange ends off the header and y pipe, then use a band clamp, or else the bung has to come back out, flange slid on and then bung rewelded lol. I wish I used my brain more often.

 

can you notch the flange a little to slide over the bung?

The parts store also should sell 2-piece flanges to replace rusted out ones without cutting the pipe.

 

I thought about notching the flange to get it around, and then I just didnt do it because my mind was set on using a sawzall today I guess. Not even 1/8th the way through I said oh crap...I was going to try and notch it! Its just been an off day.

I ended up buying a band clamp and just cutting the flanges off, it actually is sealed better now too lol. The other side being flanged still makes up for this side, I dont think its going anywhere.

Anyways the wideband is on and calibrated finally. Its working. reads like 13.3-13.5 at idle, and drops to 11 or so driving part throttle...is that normal? I noticed on tunerproRT from an old datalog that I can read "Engine airflow" Id imagine this is the same thing Id read on datamaster right?

Maybe adding some fuel at part throttle would help with all my crappy driveability?

 

Your part throttle is too rich. which is causing some problems. I tend to like my idle afrs in the 14.5-14.8 range. Part throttle i run around 15.1 and richen as i gain load.

 

Sorry had my rich/lean numbers reversed. I would have to add timing to make it more lean right? Or take away fuel....I dont know how to do either haha.

Thanks for the info nitrous2fast. - 14.5-15.1? thats not too lean? I thought you didnt want to be over 13.5 in any condition. I realize a/f ratios fluctuate but under any throttle % wouldnt you want it to not be lean?

I sent an email to see if a retune would address the part throttle A/F ratios or what. I might be able to get some figured out on my own if I keep searching on how to adjust the stuff. Getting this car to be more street friendly would ease any worries on selling it to a new owner, thats forsure. Plus the added power would be nice.

Also what amount of knock is an issue? I see like 3 to 6 sometimes, not often, mostly above 4000rpm. When I do the WOT run it will help to see whats going on up top, could be where the power is going too

 

the tuner who did my tune said that part throttle driving is a commanded 14.7 and it relys on the o2 sensors to maintain 14.7, and it cannot be adjusted. I dont know if thats true or not considering you always hear people talk about street tuning lol. Anyways he says since my car is at 11.0-12.0, something must be wrong with my 02 sensors. I put brand new o2 sensors in with the build, I didnt use extensions, I just spliced and extended them. I did this on my old camaro and it never gave me an issue.

Since the first month or so of the build, I think I have noticed a power loss. The car used to spin 2nd gear from a roll very easily, It barely spins on the 2nd gear shift, I think It did it at the track. 1st gear it blows the tires off but its got a 3500 stall, thats to be expected.

Is there any information that I should look for to see if my o2 sensors are bad? In a datalog are the left and right o2's supposed to be identical? On my log one can say 800 and one can say 300, then sometimes they flip flop with the other one reading higher...is that normal? Under throttle I think they read pretty much the same number but Im not 100% sure since I dont have the datalog infront of me.

If a wire got burnt some how wouldnt it cause alot more driveability issues?

IF the 02's are messed up, that would mean the plugs are fouled to right? The tune hasnt been changed, so all I can think of is the o2's and/or spark plugs are the issue?

I guess I need to check the o2 wires and make sure nothing got corroded. I might switch o2's and use extensions if something happened, I finally have the money to do it right.

Wish I knew a little more about this.