been thinking of doing a cc503 swap on the ol' lt1

but first and foremost i have questions

first!
lake county, indiana is unfortunately an emissions required county...
and i was hoping someone with the cam installed could please please tell me its passable...
even with some slight modification

second!
is there a standard pushrod length with the cam swap or am i best to measure and buy specific? also, with the anticipation for 1.6's being a variable

third!
why do i keep hearing that a cam swap should come hand in hand with a 3000 stall? honestly im not exactly sure that i know everything that a stall converter does benneficially... or does at all aside from locking up at a specific rpm

lastly,
specifically directed to the DIY guys like myself whove already tackled this beast..

what should i look out for? ive done my fare share of reading to have a pretty good idea as far as what needs done, but i figured itd be best to compile information from everyone whos "been there done that" as im sure everyones run into a struggle somewhere along the line.

all help is much appreciated so feel free to post any helpfull info

thanks
kyle

 

When did any county in HoosierLand go Smog Test?!?!? LoL Unless your like a suburb of Chicago type of deal. I havent lived in Indiana for a long while, Grew up in New Castle If its where the just plug in for codes Your tuner can delete anything Thatll fail ya BUT if its a Sniffer test thats a little harder. Im sure someone will chime in.

 

lake county is the furthest northwest, closest to chicago.. and the worst part about it, i live about 10 miles from "newton co" which is non emissions..

if i didnt work in chicago heights i would make the move and cam the holy crap out of the TA hah..

and where im at, any pre obd II car has to be run on the sniffer through a different seiries of speeds and accelerations.. makes life difficult.. i actually aquired a 200$ "false registration' ticket thanks to this

in my book, thats a full set of pro mags down the drain

 

I did it in the spring and it isn't a bad task. Follow Shbox's write up to a T and you will be fine. WWW.shbox.com as far as emissions I have no idea. As far as the stall goes: do you absolutely need one? No, myself and numerous other people are on stock stalls but you will love like a little more with a stall in a cammed car. I think a stock car would benefit from a higher stall as mine always seemed to want to drag through the brakes. Now its especially noticed but I deal just fine. Some day it'll get done. For now I would worry about gathering all the necessary parts for the cam swap. Don't skimp now, you don't want to do it twice.

 

That was my plan, but I'm on a budget so getting everything gathered up will probably be the most drawn out task, especially with plans for new rockers, pushrods, guide plates, ect..

 

having been there and done that in the wrong order myself I am going to tell you to do the stall FIRST as it will gain you more than the cam will if you kept the stock converter.

I did the cam as one of the first mods so I have first hand experience as to why you really should do heads, gears and stall BEFORE the cam. I gained almost nothing from the same swap, then as I added those other things the gains were huge because the car needed them even more than it had with the stock cam.

 

The heads are already ported/polished, done before I owned the car so I couldn't tell you where the work was done. And I do plan on going to a 373 rear but I have to do some reading to figure out whats all inclusive and whether or not to keep the 10 bolt

That being said, the reason I want to do the can swap now is, as I already plans on pulling the rockers, springs and pushrods.. Why not go through the entire valve train and swap lifters and cam also

 

why swap the lifters atall?
Guys have more trouble with replacement lifters than they do 15+yo stock original. I mean if the budget is there to blindly replace everything you touch great but if working on a tight budget then I would not replace good lifters. This is one of the things that gives the LT1 such a bad name people get conned into replacing all kinds of stuff they could have reused and put the money into something useful.

 

If you're already there, that deep, you might as well spend the extra $120 for some new LS7 lifters. You're strengthening everything in the valvetrain besides one thing, what do you think will fail first? Just because its fine now doesn't mean it won't fail when you put it under the pressure of stiffer springs and all new hardened valvetrain.

 

thank you blind goober you just proved what I was saying.
Based on what documented evidence are the LS7 lifter stronger or better?


If you had half a brain you would see the LS7 lifters are failing more often than original stockers. The belief they are "stronger" or "better" is BLIND and baseless. They are the current GM replacement so if someone needs new lifters they are the decent budget choice. That in no way makes them better or stronger as the vast majority ASSume.

Let me guess you will blindly buy new valvecover gaskets when the stockers are fine to reuse. Then you will BELIEVE(in my best southern evangelical voice) that the stock timing chain is weak and you "need" to replace it with a gen 1 chain and electric waterpump that flow less than stock. Almost nobody breaks the stock chain even reusing them on cam swaps though I will say a fresh stocker is a better idea and maybe an oversized cloyes gear to address the slack most find worrysome. people get some baseless idea in their head and before you know it it spreads like a disease and people spend money on things that are upgrades in myth only and neglect the parts they should have spent money on.

 

Wow, way to be a complete Dick. I like how you did the ASSume thing though, very very original and adorable. Relax man your blood pressure is measurable from here. Sorry for recommending he do the lifters while he's there.

 

now i may not be the most informed poster on here and you've prolly helped me out a time or 2.. infact i know you have. But your just a plain old dick quite often and your not the only one... so dont take it personal ya just need to relax and people need to quit arguing

If you dont agree with someone then by all means say it but dont go arguing about this stuff. In the end it just makes all parties look like idiots.

 

Where is the documentation of LS7s being a way to "strengthen" the valvetrain?

They are the inexpensive replacement these days, nothing more, it is blind assumption that they are better and frankly if one reads the forums you will see more instances of them failing than stockers despite many times more cars out there with original lifters.

Are you going to focus on me being a "dick" or are you going to try and come up with a single shred of evidence to support your assumption?

Maybe I am a dick but that doesn't make you right about what parts are upgrades, though focusing on my bluntness is a common tactic for the wrong to avoid admitting their mistake.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY reason the LS7 lifters are pushed as a necessary replacement is that they are used in the LS7. Before those came around nobody bothered replacing lifters that passed inspection despite stock lifters always being inexpensive. Then someone figured out that the same PN that is used in the LS7 fit the LT1 and was the superseding part number for the LT1 and the MYTH about their vast superiority began and now everyone wants to buy them for no good reason.

I am not saying they are bad, I am saying they are the current OEM replacement and that there is no evidence I have seen of them being any better and I am seeing evidence of them failing more often than original LT1 lifters which could be because of an engineering or manufacturing defect or could be newer cam lobes are to blame or maybe it is just that as the years pass we have more and more incompetent people working on these cars. Probably a combination of all the above.

 

EVEN IF THAT IS SO!

Would I be better off doing the "oem replacement" of ls7 lifters, or sticking to the stock lifters with 165k miles on em?

As said, would the added stress be a future problem with the already used and abused stocks? Tearing it appart twice is mainly what I'm trying to avoid here and also keep in mind that im trying not to break the bank with my project. That being said, I would love to keep what's in there if, and only if, they will handle things just fine

 

I have yet to personally see a stock lifter fail and in 12 years on various forums I can say a stock lifter failure is a very rare occurrence. LS7 lifters seem to be failing regularly.
Based on my experience of having reused 160K mile lifters in a friend's cammed daily driver 7-8 years ago and the engine is still going strong only is now in his wife's daily driver I would reuse stockers so long as they passed a good inspection. She has broken a rocker stud, a few trannies and miscellaneous other stuff and the springs have been changed I think twice but the lifters never got a second look. Think we just put a high pressure spring in the pump and a new stock chain on the existing gears and the damn thing is like the energizer bunny.

 

OK, here is the $Million Question. Stock Lifters need replacing, LS7 are the Stock Replacement Lifters (Which have problems) what do you do? Are there aftermarket Lifters that are good or does no one make an aftermarket lifter for LT1/LS7 Engines?

Joe

 

Short and sweet...inspect the old ones. If u haven't had any tapping problems reuse them. LS7 lifters have had growing number of failures. DONE.

 

Like I said the LS7s are the current stock replacement, beyond them you are looking at more money, maybe GMPP Cadillac racing as middle ground and then you get up into high dollar Morel and such.

So few try the stock replacement aftermarket that we don't have much sample size, I would expect their basic ones to be reboxed stock lifters.

I am not saying nobody should buy the LS7 lifters, I am saying way too many people blindly buy them when their stockers are fine and cut corners somewhere else to buy this not really an upgrade part that the forum has convinced them is magically better.
If you need new lifters and don't want to spend $220-600 then the LS7s are a reasonable choice, just don't believe they are an upgrade because there is no documentation I have seen to suggest they are. If someone has some documentation then I think it would be great for it to be posted.

 

Okay, thank you, I will more than likely be reusing stock lifters.

Now, the deciding factor as to whether or not I'll take on this project is...

Will I be able to pass a sniffer test? It would be pointless to do the work if I can't get the car plated and being my daily driver I have to pass emissions

 

Noone? I've read and read and can't find anyone with solid info saying they've passed.. A lot of people say it will pass with a tune but I havnt been able to find any proof