302 or 327 LT1
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From: Orlando
302 or 327 LT1 Just out of curiosity. Can someone explain to me why a SBC 302 would make more power then an 302 LT1? I thought LT1's are easier to make more power since the reverse flow cooling. Affording higher CR and more power. What is it about the Gen 1 SBC thats better then the LT1 when it comes to small cubes. Ive heard a factory SBC 302 is rated to 290hp but actually made 340-360hp. I know a 302 lacks torque, but I thought LT1's were made as the successor of the SBC. Seems like it was the predecessor. 
Stop listening to old-heads. The modern LT1 is superior in every way to the old SBCs, including the LT-1. Even though is doesn't have double hump heads, a 750 Holley, dome pistons.
Stay away from car show 'experts' and uncles who used to have the old cars. Their addled memories have added at least 100HP to those old musclecars.
Stay away from car show 'experts' and uncles who used to have the old cars. Their addled memories have added at least 100HP to those old musclecars.
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From: Orlando
Google gross HP(pre-1972) versus net HP and you will will find that the old engines are down 50-100 HP if dynoed to today's standards. Plus, the manufacturers would outright lie about the HP numbers back in the 1960s. Car Craft(I think) did a dyno comparison of the 60's engines to the 90s engines a few year ago and the 60's were not what they were promised to be.
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From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
Google gross HP(pre-1972) versus net HP and you will will find that the old engines are down 50-100 HP if dynoed to today's standards. Plus, the manufacturers would outright lie about the HP numbers back in the 1960s. Car Craft(I think) did a dyno comparison of the 60's engines to the 90s engines a few year ago and the 60's were not what they were promised to be.
Hence the 425hp rated ZL1 BBC that was known to lay down closer to 550+HP then rated 425
Yes a modern day LT1 will walk a 70s LT1
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Either way, the 90's cars were also usually lighter than their 70's counterparts, have better suspension/handle better, more effecient/economic, and have higher top speeds.
Most factory late 60's/early 70's f-body's were 15-16 second cars with a 350 if I'm not mistaken.
Everybody has heard of the "conservative estimate" big block cars from back then and heard they made 50-100 more hp than advertised, and seem to apply that to every motor now from that era.
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[QUOTE=MasterTomos;16742287]I remember a head to head test that was conducted within the last few years of a 90's LT1 and a 70's LT-1. They were both run without accessories, and with headers I believe, and made within 5-10hp at the flywheel to each other if I'm remembering right.
I seen the LT-1 vs LT1 engine dyno They used a 750cfm carb instead of the real 780cfm Holley But the Horsepower was really close Maybe 3 to 5hp difference The 70 LT-1 had more Torque though!!! A 70 to 73 Camaro with a class hood weighed 3150 or 3250 if I remember right LoL Being born in 72 Ive got that Cant Remember **** LoL The BIGGEST difference WAS TIRE Technology!!! Yeah a 4th gen will eat em up in the handling dept
My Dads 73 Z28 had less horsepower than the 70 1/2 but would still do 106 in the quarter with old Bias-ply N50s on the back & skinnies up front Full interior, stock 3.73 posi & Turbo 350 No stall AND Dad wonders why Im an F-body nut LoL
You can build a 302 LT1 with the baby lt1 crank & bet if you used a cam similiar to what was in the 69 DZ302 the LT1 heads would make more power Same with a 4th gen The 70 LT-1 got a pretty big Solid Flat Tappet cam Factory LoL My Uncle also had a Buick GS Stage II & if I remember right that was the fastest muscle car in the quarter mile Bone Stock!!!!!!! I could Argue puttin Vortec heads on an old LT-1 LoL
Funny **** is a V6 stang will Smoke an old Boss 302 stang LMFAO Furd guys HATE THAT
I seen the LT-1 vs LT1 engine dyno They used a 750cfm carb instead of the real 780cfm Holley But the Horsepower was really close Maybe 3 to 5hp difference The 70 LT-1 had more Torque though!!! A 70 to 73 Camaro with a class hood weighed 3150 or 3250 if I remember right LoL Being born in 72 Ive got that Cant Remember **** LoL The BIGGEST difference WAS TIRE Technology!!! Yeah a 4th gen will eat em up in the handling dept
My Dads 73 Z28 had less horsepower than the 70 1/2 but would still do 106 in the quarter with old Bias-ply N50s on the back & skinnies up front Full interior, stock 3.73 posi & Turbo 350 No stall AND Dad wonders why Im an F-body nut LoL You can build a 302 LT1 with the baby lt1 crank & bet if you used a cam similiar to what was in the 69 DZ302 the LT1 heads would make more power Same with a 4th gen The 70 LT-1 got a pretty big Solid Flat Tappet cam Factory LoL My Uncle also had a Buick GS Stage II & if I remember right that was the fastest muscle car in the quarter mile Bone Stock!!!!!!! I could Argue puttin Vortec heads on an old LT-1 LoL
Funny **** is a V6 stang will Smoke an old Boss 302 stang LMFAO Furd guys HATE THAT
Last edited by warriorcustoms; Sep 22, 2012 at 12:56 PM.
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[QUOTE=warriorcustoms;16742352] Well ur rite....BUTT Buick GS stage II was not the fast Bone stock Muscle car... It was the 1969 ZL1 11.78 on B/Ply Redlines With leaf-springs bouncing around... LOL The other issue with a 302 LT1 is RPM range .. it would have to be built around a Victor style intake and a cam in the 280 @ 50 range Due to the High revving needs .. I have built several 302-301 " .125 over 283's " and they need the RRRR's a heavy flywheel and a Stick......LOL I had one that would turn 11,300 this is no BULLSHIT .. Google the F@@k out of it...
I remember a head to head test that was conducted within the last few years of a 90's LT1 and a 70's LT-1. They were both run without accessories, and with headers I believe, and made within 5-10hp at the flywheel to each other if I'm remembering right.
I seen the LT-1 vs LT1 engine dyno They used a 750cfm carb instead of the real 780cfm Holley But the Horsepower was really close Maybe 3 to 5hp difference The 70 LT-1 had more Torque though!!! A 70 to 73 Camaro with a class hood weighed 3150 or 3250 if I remember right LoL Being born in 72 Ive got that Cant Remember **** LoL The BIGGEST difference WAS TIRE Technology!!! Yeah a 4th gen will eat em up in the handling dept My Dads 73 Z28 had less horsepower than the 70 1/2 but would still do 106 in the quarter with old Bias-ply N50s on the back & skinnies up front Full interior, stock 3.73 posi & Turbo 350 No stall AND Dad wonders why Im an F-body nut LoL
You can build a 302 LT1 with the baby lt1 crank & bet if you used a cam similiar to what was in the 69 DZ302 the LT1 heads would make more power Same with a 4th gen The 70 LT-1 got a pretty big Solid Roller Factory LoL My Uncle also had a Buick GS Stage II & if I remember right that was the fastest muscle car in the quarter mile Bone Stock!!!!!!! I could Argue puttin Vortec heads on an old LT-1 LoL
Funny **** is a V6 stang will Smoke an old Boss 302 stang LMFAO Furd guys HATE THAT
I seen the LT-1 vs LT1 engine dyno They used a 750cfm carb instead of the real 780cfm Holley But the Horsepower was really close Maybe 3 to 5hp difference The 70 LT-1 had more Torque though!!! A 70 to 73 Camaro with a class hood weighed 3150 or 3250 if I remember right LoL Being born in 72 Ive got that Cant Remember **** LoL The BIGGEST difference WAS TIRE Technology!!! Yeah a 4th gen will eat em up in the handling dept
My Dads 73 Z28 had less horsepower than the 70 1/2 but would still do 106 in the quarter with old Bias-ply N50s on the back & skinnies up front Full interior, stock 3.73 posi & Turbo 350 No stall AND Dad wonders why Im an F-body nut LoL You can build a 302 LT1 with the baby lt1 crank & bet if you used a cam similiar to what was in the 69 DZ302 the LT1 heads would make more power Same with a 4th gen The 70 LT-1 got a pretty big Solid Roller Factory LoL My Uncle also had a Buick GS Stage II & if I remember right that was the fastest muscle car in the quarter mile Bone Stock!!!!!!! I could Argue puttin Vortec heads on an old LT-1 LoL
Funny **** is a V6 stang will Smoke an old Boss 302 stang LMFAO Furd guys HATE THAT
1970 LT-1 353hp @ 5600, 392 ftlbs @ 4100
Late model LT1 350hp @ 5700, 379 ftlbs @ 3800
Both with 1 3/4 long tubes and the LT-1 had a EWP, LT1 had the stock WP.
Our red headed stepchild proved it's the equal of its historic namesake.
Also, up till 1972 they used leaded gas, which is equivalent to unleaded 100 octane. This is why the old 60s motors without reverse flow cooling could run 11.x:1 compression from the factory. The modern lt1s are derived from sbcs, we use the same bottom end, and the 1.94 intake heads then flow similar to our 1.94 heads, it's the factory "corvette 2.02 intake" heads that flowed more than ours. They could also use more radical cam profiles because emissions was not a concern. Where we make up against the 100 octane, 2.02 better flowing heads, and larger cam is in reverse flow cooling, fuel injection, and a better/more accurate distributor. Build an 11:1 compression running on 100 octane unleaded with a similar cam profile to a 1970 lt1 with the same flow numbers in the heads and the fuel injected modern lt1 would wax the floor with the 1970 version.
August 2010 issue of Vette magazine.
1970 LT-1 353hp @ 5600, 392 ftlbs @ 4100
Late model LT1 350hp @ 5700, 379 ftlbs @ 3800
Both with 1 3/4 long tubes and the LT-1 had a EWP, LT1 had the stock WP.
Our red headed stepchild proved it's the equal of its historic namesake.
1970 LT-1 353hp @ 5600, 392 ftlbs @ 4100
Late model LT1 350hp @ 5700, 379 ftlbs @ 3800
Both with 1 3/4 long tubes and the LT-1 had a EWP, LT1 had the stock WP.
Our red headed stepchild proved it's the equal of its historic namesake.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_10...e/viewall.html
Also, I was trying to dig up some numbers on the LT1 vs LT-1 weight of the engines themselves. If I'm not mistaken, the LT1 weighs about 550 lbs (fully dressed) but I couldn't find anything on the LT-1.
Still, keep in mind, the LT1 is much more effecient with roughly the same numbers.
Everything I have read indicates our heads outflow ALL the old school production heads except for maybe the Bowtie race head. As we all know an engines potential is in airflow.
LOL The other issue with a 302 LT1 is RPM range .. it would have to be built around a Victor style intake and a cam in the 280 @ 50 range Due to the High revving needs .. I have built several 302-301 " .125 over 283's " and they need the RRRR's a heavy flywheel and a Stick......LOL I had one that would turn 11,300 this is no BULLSHIT .. Google the F@@k out of it...[/QUOTE]
Yeah my buddy had a 283 bored 120 thou & just spray painted the head & block because it raised compression LoL They rebuilt it every week too though That thing would turn 12k all day long Hes a lil older than my Dad
They used to do some crazy **** back in the day When I was just a little ****** LoL IF you cant hook up from shitty tires 1000hp would still get beat!!! & to the guy racin 1st & 2nd gens in V6 4th gens DID They know you were racin LMAO Was prolly a Straight 6 car The 74 & up I can see but any 327 ,350, or big block 67 to 73 I really doubt you smoked em LoL Kinda like a few dudes in school used to say I beat a such & such the other day He was in a Valarie WTF LoL A 3.4 has less than 150hp The 3.8 has 205ish!!! Our LT1 heads & the Vortec head will Out flow Late 80s & Early 90s Nascar heads thats true!!! The LT-1 & 64 vette 327 fuelie was 375hp with a dialed in set up & good tires theyll scoot Believe That The 4th gen LT1 & LS1 are way better when built though Head Tech is leaps & bounds better TODAY!!!
[/QUOTE]Yeah my buddy had a 283 bored 120 thou & just spray painted the head & block because it raised compression LoL They rebuilt it every week too though That thing would turn 12k all day long
Hes a lil older than my Dad They used to do some crazy **** back in the day When I was just a little ****** LoL IF you cant hook up from shitty tires 1000hp would still get beat!!! & to the guy racin 1st & 2nd gens in V6 4th gens DID They know you were racin LMAO Was prolly a Straight 6 car
The 74 & up I can see but any 327 ,350, or big block 67 to 73 I really doubt you smoked em LoL Kinda like a few dudes in school used to say I beat a such & such the other day He was in a Valarie WTF LoL A 3.4 has less than 150hp The 3.8 has 205ish!!! Our LT1 heads & the Vortec head will Out flow Late 80s & Early 90s Nascar heads thats true!!! The LT-1 & 64 vette 327 fuelie was 375hp with a dialed in set up & good tires theyll scoot Believe That The 4th gen LT1 & LS1 are way better when built though Head Tech is leaps & bounds better TODAY!!! 
Hot Rod Magazine built a 302 LT1 in the '90s. They reprinted the article in a 'best of' book I found at my library. Don't remember the numbers but of course it made less hp than the 350.
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From: Orlando
[QUOTE=TURBO10;16742395] 12000rpm? 
in a SBC how is that possible? how well did it hold up?
Well ur rite....BUTT Buick GS stage II was not the fast Bone stock Muscle car... It was the 1969 ZL1 11.78 on B/Ply Redlines With leaf-springs bouncing around... LOL The other issue with a 302 LT1 is RPM range .. it would have to be built around a Victor style intake and a cam in the 280 @ 50 range Due to the High revving needs .. I have built several 302-301 " .125 over 283's " and they need the RRRR's a heavy flywheel and a Stick......LOL I had one that would turn 11,300 this is no BULLSHIT .. Google the F@@k out of it...
in a SBC how is that possible? how well did it hold up? 
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From: POULSBO WA.
It always gets me that the small blocks back in the day, their horsepower was overstated by alot. And the Big Blocks were understated by alot. HuH? I'm sorry lt1 will smoke quite alot of them, stock haha! I think it may be one of the fastest stock rides i have had...other than my L79 67 Nova! 12.6@110