The truth about off the shelf converters?
12-06-2012, 08:35 PM
#42
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thanks guys, lots of good info here!!!, so i have a question, what would be the first suspension mod would you guys do? i really want just a 12 second car right now, and want to build and plan it correctly. Thanks for the information, and from what im hearing its not hard to get these cars to hit 12's with minor bolt on's. I might just save for a good converter, and next year take it to the track and get to know the car. what are the usual times 1/4 mile wise for a bolt on, stock stall, and 4.10 gear car? be it with my MT ET's and maybe some BMR suspension stuff.
12-09-2012, 01:11 AM
#43
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thanks guys, lots of good info here!!!, so i have a question, what would be the first suspension mod would you guys do? i really want just a 12 second car right now, and want to build and plan it correctly. Thanks for the information, and from what im hearing its not hard to get these cars to hit 12's with minor bolt on's. I might just save for a good converter, and next year take it to the track and get to know the car. what are the usual times 1/4 mile wise for a bolt on, stock stall, and 4.10 gear car? be it with my MT ET's and maybe some BMR suspension stuff.
But for the sake of this thread, I would say your torque converter regardless of what company you choose, is one of the single most important aspects of the performance of your car. I crew on a couple nitrous grudge cars and the faster of the two was leaving a ton on the table. Changed from a local converter to a big name converter and made all the difference.
Car started reacting to changes, 60 ft better on every track, left smoother, and one of the more obvious tuning aids that tuners have at their disposal, 1/8th mile slip went down into the low single digits. Now when we make small changes in the tune at the track since the converter is closer to correct for the car, we can actually see those small incremental changes turn into big incremental changes.
No one said you have to just pick one torque converter manufactuer but if you pick one and your car performs how you think it should, leave it in there.
FWIW the converter in the car now is a PTC.
12-11-2012, 12:24 AM
#45
Well, I can tell from those comments that you have little to no experience with Yank. Using "lose" (sic) and 3600 Yank in the same reference, unless you're not talking about the SS, tells me right away you've never driven one. I have a direct comparison between a Coan (very high quality converter) 3000 and a Yank SS3600, and they drove almost identically, so yes a 3200 Coan will feel a bit looser. and yes, a slower 60' from either of those.
I'm not kidding myself; don't you be swinging from those PTC/Coan nuts :p
Yank builds a lot of custom converters. If you're really trying to go fast and ever deal with them, you'd know that. Like I already said, PTC and Coan are excellent too, but no they're not on a level above Yank
Not a Yank nutswinger and don't even run one in my car right now. I was addressing the OP's questions. Did you notice he's a "heads/cam car or less"? For what he wants, Yank is the "above average" choice. Maybe you could help more in a thread better matched to your "serious drag racing" expertise.
I'm not kidding myself; don't you be swinging from those PTC/Coan nuts :p
Yank builds a lot of custom converters. If you're really trying to go fast and ever deal with them, you'd know that. Like I already said, PTC and Coan are excellent too, but no they're not on a level above Yank
Not a Yank nutswinger and don't even run one in my car right now. I was addressing the OP's questions. Did you notice he's a "heads/cam car or less"? For what he wants, Yank is the "above average" choice. Maybe you could help more in a thread better matched to your "serious drag racing" expertise.
I'm curious... Since Yank is so much better than PTC/Coan, why don't you hear about them outside of ls1tech more often? They are HUGE on here, not so much outside.
If XXX is a better choice than Yank for a "serious" car, why wouldn't I choose XXXX for my bolt on car?
Yank makes an extremely nice converter and you always get what you pay for. However, from my experience, they don't 60' as hard as some of the others mentioned. I will say they are extremely efficient and are a tad bit tighter which is good for a DD. But I like my 60'.
Far as the guy arguing with Pat, I saw your build thread about the incomplete car. Now it doesn't say what the old setup was but can we assume the 7.3s at 95mph were a 3500lbs heads/cam LS1 setup? If so you are telling a guy with a 300lbs heavier LT1 heads/cam car that is faster he doesn't know what he is talking about
.
The single most impressive application of a 4L60E I know of uses a Vigilante, that would be Jeff Green's 4400lbs low 9s monster of a car, but I am sure Vigilante is just cheap stuff for heads/cam cars too right?
.The single most impressive application of a 4L60E I know of uses a Vigilante, that would be Jeff Green's 4400lbs low 9s monster of a car, but I am sure Vigilante is just cheap stuff for heads/cam cars too right?
Fwiw... I would recommend a Vig before a Yank. Don't assume so quick next time.
12-11-2012, 11:23 AM
#46
lemons, Just go back to the original post in this thread and hopefully you can see where I was coming from with my suggestions for him.
He's by no means talking about a "serious" setup or a race car.
I think I've already acknowledged those brands you mentioned make great converters. They just don't cater as much to very mild setups and thus they don't get as much feedback on what works best in those setups.
For the OP, any of them outside of the SS series stand a lower chance of delivering, in my humble opinion
He's by no means talking about a "serious" setup or a race car.
I think I've already acknowledged those brands you mentioned make great converters. They just don't cater as much to very mild setups and thus they don't get as much feedback on what works best in those setups.
For the OP, any of them outside of the SS series stand a lower chance of delivering, in my humble opinion
12-11-2012, 07:48 PM
#47
I can speak for the TCI 3500 super streetfighter
I bought one used for a price I cant remember it was so cheap, something like 140 or 155, it came out of a show truck that hardly moved under its own power. It was a craigslist special, and the only thing I had to go off of was the guys word that it was what it was and wasnt abused. I installed it with ARP bolts and used some washers as spacers. Only thing I did was make sure it was properly seated and fuild levels were good, I also threw a cooler on it from Orielly auto parts. I didnt get it checked out or rebuilt or anything lol.
It went down the track quite a bit of times, probably 25 while I had the car. I sold the car, TCI still in it and still driving fine. There was another guy on here who had a tci 3500, he had nothing but good things to say about it till it went, and I think he was unsure if it was the transmission or the converter that went out. So all that being said, I give the tci 3500 a thumbs up, were as 95% of people give TCI converters and transmissions really bad reviews, most of those people havent used the product even.
I was told through email by someone (who is big in the Lt1 game) that if you go to a dragstrip youll find people wont be running half the stuff people on forums say are good (and its true). Certain converters, certain air fuel ratio gauges. Forums are one thing, and people tend to give input on products they have never used becuase of other peoples posts. It becomes a general opinion that yank converters are awesome and nothing beats them, but if you look at 90% of cars at the track, they arnt running yanks. But they arnt running cheap **** either if you know what I mean. And yes yank makes a good converter, but its not the top of the line, best ever, only brand for a ls1/lt1 car converter. One thing with converters is that normally the higher the price, they better they drive when they arnt on the strip. TCI's tend to be very loose, where as yanks tend to drive alot closer to stock even with a higher stall speed from what I hear.
I think the only other converter I used was in a 700r4 and it was an edge racing converter, also no problems out of it.
I bought one used for a price I cant remember it was so cheap, something like 140 or 155, it came out of a show truck that hardly moved under its own power. It was a craigslist special, and the only thing I had to go off of was the guys word that it was what it was and wasnt abused. I installed it with ARP bolts and used some washers as spacers. Only thing I did was make sure it was properly seated and fuild levels were good, I also threw a cooler on it from Orielly auto parts. I didnt get it checked out or rebuilt or anything lol.
It went down the track quite a bit of times, probably 25 while I had the car. I sold the car, TCI still in it and still driving fine. There was another guy on here who had a tci 3500, he had nothing but good things to say about it till it went, and I think he was unsure if it was the transmission or the converter that went out. So all that being said, I give the tci 3500 a thumbs up, were as 95% of people give TCI converters and transmissions really bad reviews, most of those people havent used the product even.
I was told through email by someone (who is big in the Lt1 game) that if you go to a dragstrip youll find people wont be running half the stuff people on forums say are good (and its true). Certain converters, certain air fuel ratio gauges. Forums are one thing, and people tend to give input on products they have never used becuase of other peoples posts. It becomes a general opinion that yank converters are awesome and nothing beats them, but if you look at 90% of cars at the track, they arnt running yanks. But they arnt running cheap **** either if you know what I mean. And yes yank makes a good converter, but its not the top of the line, best ever, only brand for a ls1/lt1 car converter. One thing with converters is that normally the higher the price, they better they drive when they arnt on the strip. TCI's tend to be very loose, where as yanks tend to drive alot closer to stock even with a higher stall speed from what I hear.
I think the only other converter I used was in a 700r4 and it was an edge racing converter, also no problems out of it.
Last edited by trilkb; 12-11-2012 at 07:54 PM.
12-11-2012, 07:58 PM
#48
25 passes on a TCI and you want to say something good? You realize some of us make that many passes in 3-4 trips.
I will agree forum info has to be taken with a grain of salt. LOTS of guys blindly push whatever they have done mistake or not. Which is why I suggest newbs try and get to know the posters and get a feel for what the car really is then look at how it works when considering the validity of a poster's opinions and feedback.
There is an idiot around here who will tell you a 2400stall 12" is good but he has a 13 second stroker with a stick and then you have Pat who has a 10 second NA 3800lbs stock shortblock car. Which one of those folks would you want performance advise from?
I will agree forum info has to be taken with a grain of salt. LOTS of guys blindly push whatever they have done mistake or not. Which is why I suggest newbs try and get to know the posters and get a feel for what the car really is then look at how it works when considering the validity of a poster's opinions and feedback.
There is an idiot around here who will tell you a 2400stall 12" is good but he has a 13 second stroker with a stick and then you have Pat who has a 10 second NA 3800lbs stock shortblock car. Which one of those folks would you want performance advise from?
12-11-2012, 10:02 PM
#49
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FWIW OP. Do what I do. I stalk these kinds of threads and then start researching and making phone calls on my own. In the end I'm going to go with a PTC. Guys seem really good to deal with and they are priced right where I need. Take what you want out of your car, listen to guys on here and then read read read and read some more.
12-12-2012, 01:31 AM
#50
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cool guys thanks, i love the debate and all the different view points and reviews and testimonials. Now trilkb funny you should mention tci, i was in the thirdgen forum's and was reading a thread about converters, and one guy claimed, any tci would hurt 1/4 mile times by almost 3 tenths 0.o i was like wtf. Now a local speed shop, and builder swears by TCI, thanks to everyone for advice, and your views im doing lots of research, you guys have no idea how happy i will be once i crack 12's lol
12-12-2012, 07:02 AM
#51
When talking to shops about tranny stuff you need to be VERY specific about researching what they have accomplished with a 4L60E.
A LOT of TH350 and TH400s have been halfassed in garages and lived behind 600hp, and a LOT of "professionallt built" 4L60Es have failed behind 350hp.
Many years ago I made the mistake of trusting a big local tranny shop I thought the motor homes, dump trucks, armored trucks(cash haulers) and old street rods meant something. I told them I was going to put a modded LT1 in the car and wanted the tranny beefed up first. Tranny lasted little more than a year and I didn't even get to modding the car much, when the tranny let go it was only making modest bolton power. When I had a 4L60E expert rebuilt that tranny he found all sorts of things they had cut corners on or just done wrong.
Also consider power is a lot easier to come by with a LT1 than the cars that came before it so when listening to who the third gen guys like with the 700R4(close enough to the 4L60E) consider they are a lot less likely to be putting down the 400+rwhp we do see with many heads/cam LT1s. My second tranny builder who did the tranny 10 years ago tells me he sees TCI as hit or miss with the 4L60E and he built it for what I told him would be a 300rwhp daily driver, when the car became more of a toy and I did a heads/cam setup making 390+rwhp all he had me do was drop the valvebody and redrill the 1-2 feed hole, that was I think 7 years ago.
Before you trust someone with a 4L60E find specific examples of them having this tranny last long term behind good power.
A LOT of TH350 and TH400s have been halfassed in garages and lived behind 600hp, and a LOT of "professionallt built" 4L60Es have failed behind 350hp.
Many years ago I made the mistake of trusting a big local tranny shop I thought the motor homes, dump trucks, armored trucks(cash haulers) and old street rods meant something. I told them I was going to put a modded LT1 in the car and wanted the tranny beefed up first. Tranny lasted little more than a year and I didn't even get to modding the car much, when the tranny let go it was only making modest bolton power. When I had a 4L60E expert rebuilt that tranny he found all sorts of things they had cut corners on or just done wrong.
Also consider power is a lot easier to come by with a LT1 than the cars that came before it so when listening to who the third gen guys like with the 700R4(close enough to the 4L60E) consider they are a lot less likely to be putting down the 400+rwhp we do see with many heads/cam LT1s. My second tranny builder who did the tranny 10 years ago tells me he sees TCI as hit or miss with the 4L60E and he built it for what I told him would be a 300rwhp daily driver, when the car became more of a toy and I did a heads/cam setup making 390+rwhp all he had me do was drop the valvebody and redrill the 1-2 feed hole, that was I think 7 years ago.
Before you trust someone with a 4L60E find specific examples of them having this tranny last long term behind good power.
12-12-2012, 02:45 PM
#52
Hey guys, since i have had my car i did some bolt on's, full exhaust,EWP,1.6rr's,intake,4.10's, and i have a set of weld pro stars with ET radial's, my next step for now before i do some suspension is converter's. I know yank makes great stuff, Edge, circle d, and they are all nice converter's. Yet a little pricey so my questions are as follow's
1. what stall would you guys recomend for my mods
2. why do you guys not like brands such as TCI, Hughes, Boss hog, ATI, B&M and those brand.
I mean some of them are pricey, and i havnt seen anyone use one so i have no feed back from any of these brand's. So why are these converters bad, is it how they are built, do they break, what is so different about these. If anyone can help me out or give reviews about any of them that would be great, or give me solid facts why these are bad converters that would be great. I would love to hear facts, not just that there junk please. thaks guys!!
1. what stall would you guys recomend for my mods
2. why do you guys not like brands such as TCI, Hughes, Boss hog, ATI, B&M and those brand.
I mean some of them are pricey, and i havnt seen anyone use one so i have no feed back from any of these brand's. So why are these converters bad, is it how they are built, do they break, what is so different about these. If anyone can help me out or give reviews about any of them that would be great, or give me solid facts why these are bad converters that would be great. I would love to hear facts, not just that there junk please. thaks guys!!
