valve springs/components questions
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 461
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From: Hastings, Nebraska
valve springs/components questions Alright so I need a set of valve springs, seals, and all other components relative to the springs.
will be used with cam in sig + 1.6 roller rockers, puts lift to ~.544 max
shift at 6100rpm if that makes a difference
I am not really sure what to get here, I need something that is durable because this car is my back up dd/ weekend car, I do drive it quite a bit.
I thought about getting a double spring but im really not sure what to get here.
any suggestions?
also I need to know what all I will need as far as components for recommended spring...
Thanks in advance
will be used with cam in sig + 1.6 roller rockers, puts lift to ~.544 max
shift at 6100rpm if that makes a difference
I am not really sure what to get here, I need something that is durable because this car is my back up dd/ weekend car, I do drive it quite a bit.
I thought about getting a double spring but im really not sure what to get here.
any suggestions?
also I need to know what all I will need as far as components for recommended spring...
Thanks in advance
I have a nice double spring package with all required components for $229 with steel retainers or $299 with titanium retainers. The only catch is the heads must be disassembled and valves remove, and the guides cut for 1/2" seals for the kit to work. If the heads will remain on the car then a Comp 918 with their retainers is about the only other option that I know of.
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/spr...t-engines.html
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/spr...t-engines.html
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: Hastings, Nebraska
I have a nice double spring package with all required components for $229 with steel retainers or $299 with titanium retainers. The only catch is the heads must be disassembled and valves remove, and the guides cut for 1/2" seals for the kit to work. If the heads will remain on the car then a Comp 918 with their retainers is about the only other option that I know of.
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/spr...t-engines.html
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/spr...t-engines.html
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Is this the Comp 304 with 1.6 rockers? Just seems prudent to make sure as there is more to spring choice than just lift capacity but the 304 is mild lobes so it shouldn't be that big a deal.
I would probably just go with the PAC dropin option, just to keep things simple.
If it were a more aggressive cam I would think about some other things but those are mild lobes, low shift point no need to get carried away.
I would probably just go with the PAC dropin option, just to keep things simple.
If it were a more aggressive cam I would think about some other things but those are mild lobes, low shift point no need to get carried away.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 461
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From: Hastings, Nebraska
Is this the Comp 304 with 1.6 rockers? Just seems prudent to make sure as there is more to spring choice than just lift capacity but the 304 is mild lobes so it shouldn't be that big a deal.
I would probably just go with the PAC dropin option, just to keep things simple.
If it were a more aggressive cam I would think about some other things but those are mild lobes, low shift point no need to get carried away.
I would probably just go with the PAC dropin option, just to keep things simple.
If it were a more aggressive cam I would think about some other things but those are mild lobes, low shift point no need to get carried away.
im thinking dual springs because i dont want to break another spring and actually drop a valve ... your right in bringing that up but im just being cautious.
The 304 is so mild I wouldn't think spring breakage a big concern. Have to consider there are a LOT of us running cams up in the .590-.610 lift range and with those sort of cams spring breakage is more likely though we have seen too many breaking at too low a mileage.
Even with something mild like the 304 I would still consider springs to be a maintenance item once you swap away from the stock cam. talk to the spring vendor about when they want you to check them or if you want to just decide to swap them every say 20K if that falls within the vendor's recommendations.
Even with something mild like the 304 I would still consider springs to be a maintenance item once you swap away from the stock cam. talk to the spring vendor about when they want you to check them or if you want to just decide to swap them every say 20K if that falls within the vendor's recommendations.
Get them cryo treated. It's one of those things I wish I would have thought of a head of time.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 461
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From: Hastings, Nebraska
The 304 is so mild I wouldn't think spring breakage a big concern. Have to consider there are a LOT of us running cams up in the .590-.610 lift range and with those sort of cams spring breakage is more likely though we have seen too many breaking at too low a mileage.
Even with something mild like the 304 I would still consider springs to be a maintenance item once you swap away from the stock cam. talk to the spring vendor about when they want you to check them or if you want to just decide to swap them every say 20K if that falls within the vendor's recommendations.
Even with something mild like the 304 I would still consider springs to be a maintenance item once you swap away from the stock cam. talk to the spring vendor about when they want you to check them or if you want to just decide to swap them every say 20K if that falls within the vendor's recommendations.
whats special about cryo-treating springs?
There are benefits to cryo treating some materials in some applications. In the case of valvesprings, I think it's buzzword marketing.
What really enhances fatigue life of springs and guards against breakage are:
1. starting with high quality clean wire
2. polishing
3. shotpeening.
What really enhances fatigue life of springs and guards against breakage are:
1. starting with high quality clean wire
2. polishing
3. shotpeening.
I think nitriding is one of the preferred treatments. Who is offering cryo treatment of valvesprings, haven't seen that one before.
I would tend to trust Pat on the evaluation of what treatments are worthwhile.
I would tend to trust Pat on the evaluation of what treatments are worthwhile.
I went and googled for info on cryo treating valvesprings and came up with this article.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...retainers.aspx
Touches on a few different spring treatments and on how things like NASCAR are using less seat spring pressure than most of us. I wouldn't take it all as gospel but did find it interesting.
Cliff's notes on cryo treating valvesprings was it may have big benifits on cheap springs and not worthwhile on springs made with good quality wire.
Which seems reasonable as the answer to most questions start with "it depends............................"
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...retainers.aspx
Touches on a few different spring treatments and on how things like NASCAR are using less seat spring pressure than most of us. I wouldn't take it all as gospel but did find it interesting.
Cliff's notes on cryo treating valvesprings was it may have big benifits on cheap springs and not worthwhile on springs made with good quality wire.
Which seems reasonable as the answer to most questions start with "it depends............................"
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...retainers.aspx
This method has been proven to work great on brake rotors. Especially cross drilled rotors.
Freezing Springs?
Proponents of cryogenics claim all kinds of advantages for deep freezing valve springs and other engine parts. The process involves chilling parts down to about 300 degrees below zero Fahrenheit using liquid nitrogen in a computer-controlled freezer. At such extremely cold temperatures, most molecular vibration stops.
The parts are allowed to cold soak for up to 24 hours or more. This allows the atoms in the metal’s microstructure to settle down and rearrange themselves into a more densely packed state. The change in metallurgy helps relieve residual stress in the parts that can cause cracks and failure, and it helps some parts hold up better by slightly increasing their surface hardness.
These are all positive changes for a valve spring, but the degree to which a cryogenic treatment improves a valve spring will vary depending on the wire in the spring. One manufacturer said for the average valve spring, it may increase spring life several fold. But for really high quality valve springs, they have not seen enough improvement to justify the extra cost. Even so, if a racer wants his valve springs frozen it isn’t going to hurt anything either.
Proponents of cryogenics claim all kinds of advantages for deep freezing valve springs and other engine parts. The process involves chilling parts down to about 300 degrees below zero Fahrenheit using liquid nitrogen in a computer-controlled freezer. At such extremely cold temperatures, most molecular vibration stops.
The parts are allowed to cold soak for up to 24 hours or more. This allows the atoms in the metal’s microstructure to settle down and rearrange themselves into a more densely packed state. The change in metallurgy helps relieve residual stress in the parts that can cause cracks and failure, and it helps some parts hold up better by slightly increasing their surface hardness.
These are all positive changes for a valve spring, but the degree to which a cryogenic treatment improves a valve spring will vary depending on the wire in the spring. One manufacturer said for the average valve spring, it may increase spring life several fold. But for really high quality valve springs, they have not seen enough improvement to justify the extra cost. Even so, if a racer wants his valve springs frozen it isn’t going to hurt anything either.
There are benefits to cryo treating some materials in some applications. In the case of valvesprings, I think it's buzzword marketing.
What really enhances fatigue life of springs and guards against breakage are:
1. starting with high quality clean wire
2. polishing
3. shotpeening.
What really enhances fatigue life of springs and guards against breakage are:
1. starting with high quality clean wire
2. polishing
3. shotpeening.