Cam bolts and Dowel Sheared off (PICS Added)
01-20-2013, 02:55 PM
#41
If you took it back to the same place that did the original work, If they were at fault I wouldn't expect them to admit to it. That would be a big bill they would be liable for. I could be wrong and they might be a great shop and you trust them but I haven't run into a place like that yet in my 52 years.
01-20-2013, 03:03 PM
#42
It could have been the cam was jambed for a split second and things broke and then freed up.
I didn't see anyone else say it and I know I will be the bad guy for going there BUT my concern given the course of events would be the opti got a "High rpm test" after install and the damage happened then and it was put on the transport.
I know we would all like to have more trust than that. Given what I am reading though it seems like a scenario worth at least considering. Or along the same lines was it removed from the transort and beaten on? Could a tool or debris have been dropped into the timing cover and jambed the chain later?
Despite what others are saying about oiling and such I don't buy that the SBC has pretty good oiling, it is not a "common problem" and when there are issues it will survive surprisingly long without proper oiling but will be very loud in the valvetrain and then rod knock before I would expect to have something like a cam seize. Not like you had aftermarket valvetrain putting a lot of pressure on the cam bearings.
It is entirely possible this was just a freak thing while exceptionally rare guys have had rods just snap under light use, snapped rod could stop the cam for a moment breaking the bolts than swing clear as the crank is rotated more.
I wouldn't really spend money on tearing that engine apart now. As others have said a used engine will be the quickest simplest fix.
I didn't see anyone else say it and I know I will be the bad guy for going there BUT my concern given the course of events would be the opti got a "High rpm test" after install and the damage happened then and it was put on the transport.
I know we would all like to have more trust than that. Given what I am reading though it seems like a scenario worth at least considering. Or along the same lines was it removed from the transort and beaten on? Could a tool or debris have been dropped into the timing cover and jambed the chain later?
Despite what others are saying about oiling and such I don't buy that the SBC has pretty good oiling, it is not a "common problem" and when there are issues it will survive surprisingly long without proper oiling but will be very loud in the valvetrain and then rod knock before I would expect to have something like a cam seize. Not like you had aftermarket valvetrain putting a lot of pressure on the cam bearings.
It is entirely possible this was just a freak thing while exceptionally rare guys have had rods just snap under light use, snapped rod could stop the cam for a moment breaking the bolts than swing clear as the crank is rotated more.
I wouldn't really spend money on tearing that engine apart now. As others have said a used engine will be the quickest simplest fix.
01-20-2013, 03:37 PM
#43
It could have been the cam was jambed for a split second and things broke and then freed up.
I didn't see anyone else say it and I know I will be the bad guy for going there BUT my concern given the course of events would be the opti got a "High rpm test" after install and the damage happened then and it was put on the transport.
I know we would all like to have more trust than that. Given what I am reading though it seems like a scenario worth at least considering. Or along the same lines was it removed from the transort and beaten on? Could a tool or debris have been dropped into the timing cover and jambed the chain later?
Despite what others are saying about oiling and such I don't buy that the SBC has pretty good oiling, it is not a "common problem" and when there are issues it will survive surprisingly long without proper oiling but will be very loud in the valvetrain and then rod knock before I would expect to have something like a cam seize. Not like you had aftermarket valvetrain putting a lot of pressure on the cam bearings.
It is entirely possible this was just a freak thing while exceptionally rare guys have had rods just snap under light use, snapped rod could stop the cam for a moment breaking the bolts than swing clear as the crank is rotated more.
I wouldn't really spend money on tearing that engine apart now. As others have said a used engine will be the quickest simplest fix.
I didn't see anyone else say it and I know I will be the bad guy for going there BUT my concern given the course of events would be the opti got a "High rpm test" after install and the damage happened then and it was put on the transport.
I know we would all like to have more trust than that. Given what I am reading though it seems like a scenario worth at least considering. Or along the same lines was it removed from the transort and beaten on? Could a tool or debris have been dropped into the timing cover and jambed the chain later?
Despite what others are saying about oiling and such I don't buy that the SBC has pretty good oiling, it is not a "common problem" and when there are issues it will survive surprisingly long without proper oiling but will be very loud in the valvetrain and then rod knock before I would expect to have something like a cam seize. Not like you had aftermarket valvetrain putting a lot of pressure on the cam bearings.
It is entirely possible this was just a freak thing while exceptionally rare guys have had rods just snap under light use, snapped rod could stop the cam for a moment breaking the bolts than swing clear as the crank is rotated more.
I wouldn't really spend money on tearing that engine apart now. As others have said a used engine will be the quickest simplest fix.
01-20-2013, 07:34 PM
#44
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...ock-heads.html
$3,000 Shipped with a 1 year warranty. You will not destroy this engine, it was built by the same guy that built this motor.
Same hone, same balancing machine, same bore gauges.
You have a 97 which has a different timing cover, send me the 97 timing cover, crank reluctor wheel, and the key and I'll put it on. Will also put a stock EFI intake manifold before I ship it. Does not come with valve covers that have the notch for the alternator and you have to use your own headers. I just sold them.
$3,250 and I'll put it on the dyno with the carb and your timing cover on it and I'll video it.
$3,000 Shipped with a 1 year warranty. You will not destroy this engine, it was built by the same guy that built this motor.
Same hone, same balancing machine, same bore gauges.
You have a 97 which has a different timing cover, send me the 97 timing cover, crank reluctor wheel, and the key and I'll put it on. Will also put a stock EFI intake manifold before I ship it. Does not come with valve covers that have the notch for the alternator and you have to use your own headers. I just sold them.
$3,250 and I'll put it on the dyno with the carb and your timing cover on it and I'll video it.
01-20-2013, 07:43 PM
#45
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I suspect the shop too. Either they forgot to put oil in it.....or they were "testing" their repair job. I see "techs" do it at several shops in my town. I don't know of many that have had it bite them, but it has happened. One even ran a c5 vette into the ditch and a pole about 6 years ago. Somehow he managed to keep his job. LOL
That 385" is a steal and those are good guys too. I would just have to run a cheap junkyard motor for now if it was me, but if you can afford it that would be an awesome foundation for whatever you wanted to do down the road.
That 385" is a steal and those are good guys too. I would just have to run a cheap junkyard motor for now if it was me, but if you can afford it that would be an awesome foundation for whatever you wanted to do down the road.
01-21-2013, 01:23 AM
#46
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Oil in pan is full and clean though filled with metal shavings of course. Should get some more info from the garage either today or tomorrow. I have to lay off them a bit. They move rather slowly and I think me calling every other day is just slowing them down!
Yes the original shop was very quick to say "we'll help any way we can" but "we are not responsible, car was fine when it left". I do not want to assume that the car was damaged by the shop, though nothing was reported on the first inspection, later a slight miss was reported by one of their techs, then after the headers the car flat out wouldnt start. After the Opti/wires install and a 20 mile drive for code deletion the car was parked and declared done.
That is the part I don't agree with. As stated, the transporter is a family friend of ours. He picked the car up in the afternoon in one state and was sitting in the parking lot across from where my wife lives at 7 Am for delivery the next morning.
He onloaded, drove and off loaded. I was on the phone with my wife when he offloaded. She said the car was "vibrating and shaking a lot" she was going to record a video for me but never got the chance before it died 100 yards from the driveway. As stated earlier, I told her it was probably just the new Headers which instilled false confidence in her to drive it. The car had fresh plugs, a fresh Opti, fresh wires, fresh oil and had just been driven by the Shop Manager 20 miles and all was well. It had a catastrophic engine failure 100 yards from home. My wife is 14 weeks Pregnant and our 14 month son was in the back seat. She was not beating on the car.
Yes the original shop was very quick to say "we'll help any way we can" but "we are not responsible, car was fine when it left". I do not want to assume that the car was damaged by the shop, though nothing was reported on the first inspection, later a slight miss was reported by one of their techs, then after the headers the car flat out wouldnt start. After the Opti/wires install and a 20 mile drive for code deletion the car was parked and declared done.
That is the part I don't agree with. As stated, the transporter is a family friend of ours. He picked the car up in the afternoon in one state and was sitting in the parking lot across from where my wife lives at 7 Am for delivery the next morning.
He onloaded, drove and off loaded. I was on the phone with my wife when he offloaded. She said the car was "vibrating and shaking a lot" she was going to record a video for me but never got the chance before it died 100 yards from the driveway. As stated earlier, I told her it was probably just the new Headers which instilled false confidence in her to drive it. The car had fresh plugs, a fresh Opti, fresh wires, fresh oil and had just been driven by the Shop Manager 20 miles and all was well. It had a catastrophic engine failure 100 yards from home. My wife is 14 weeks Pregnant and our 14 month son was in the back seat. She was not beating on the car.
Last edited by Scoobie; 01-22-2013 at 12:19 PM.
01-21-2013, 05:20 AM
#47
I really have to wonder about the new opti being given a "high rpm test" or if the broken number 6 was the cause for the new opti plugs and wires and then when those didn't fix it they wanted to be rid of it.
I know it isn't nice to be suspicious but major mechanical failure while riding a trailer across a few states is a LOT less likely than being lied to by a shop.
I know it isn't nice to be suspicious but major mechanical failure while riding a trailer across a few states is a LOT less likely than being lied to by a shop.
01-21-2013, 10:49 AM
#49
something you most likely will never know but was what inspired me to alude to in my post......and others have touched on also.
At this juncture the car has crossed state lines and was "running" when it left the shop so they are looking clear, in their minds. The transport driver is a known person to you...
it will be imposible to know wtf the former shop did or DIDN'T do unless they come forward with other information. This assumes they did anything to cause this as that is only speculation.
a new motor, few options on what that is, is what needs to happen to get this car back on the road for your wife. Or park it and buy something else for reliable transportation until you get back and can deal with it first hand
01-21-2013, 01:18 PM
#50
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I have found a couple deals floating around. But as mentioned above have to wait until the Mechanic working on my car pulls the current engine and we discover what is good, what isn't. My father in law has offered to help pay for this repair which is excellent.
Let me bring up another point. I've been a member of this board for almost 10 years. Prior to that, I was on LS1.com since 1999 and am also a member of numerous other LS1/LT1 boards. Over the years I have seen shops rise, and shops fall. This is the 2nd time I've left a car at a shop and the 2nd time I've had what appeared at first to be a great experience only for it to epic fail shortly after. I just don't know who to trust anymore and who my hard earned money should go to.
Let me bring up another point. I've been a member of this board for almost 10 years. Prior to that, I was on LS1.com since 1999 and am also a member of numerous other LS1/LT1 boards. Over the years I have seen shops rise, and shops fall. This is the 2nd time I've left a car at a shop and the 2nd time I've had what appeared at first to be a great experience only for it to epic fail shortly after. I just don't know who to trust anymore and who my hard earned money should go to.
01-21-2013, 01:30 PM
#51
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my ? about the "oil change" was....meaning did they put oil back in before test drive...
something you most likely will never know but was what inspired me to alude to in my post......and others have touched on also.
At this juncture the car has crossed state lines and was "running" when it left the shop so they are looking clear, in their minds. The transport driver is a known person to you...
it will be imposible to know wtf the former shop did or DIDN'T do unless they come forward with other information. This assumes they did anything to cause this as that is only speculation.
a new motor, few options on what that is, is what needs to happen to get this car back on the road for your wife. Or park it and buy something else for reliable transportation until you get back and can deal with it first hand
something you most likely will never know but was what inspired me to alude to in my post......and others have touched on also.
At this juncture the car has crossed state lines and was "running" when it left the shop so they are looking clear, in their minds. The transport driver is a known person to you...
it will be imposible to know wtf the former shop did or DIDN'T do unless they come forward with other information. This assumes they did anything to cause this as that is only speculation.
a new motor, few options on what that is, is what needs to happen to get this car back on the road for your wife. Or park it and buy something else for reliable transportation until you get back and can deal with it first hand
01-21-2013, 01:39 PM
#52
the tear down will reveal the visual on what "broke"....what it won't show on parts like crank/rods/cam/heads are potential (not visable to the eye) twists or cracks that further specific inspection will reveal (magnaflux) and then rebalanceing assumeing you would salvage rods/pistons/cam/crank and just replace the rod and piston that broke
I suspect block is gone but you will have to spend $ on confirming if what appear to be good parts are in fact still good.
sucks having to make these decisions from your location. If you have confidence in the local shop to salvage your parts and build another motor fine. Tuning will be a factor but if you are mirroring the existing build than the existing tuune should work. Don't know if you had a stock tune.
I suspect block is gone but you will have to spend $ on confirming if what appear to be good parts are in fact still good.
sucks having to make these decisions from your location. If you have confidence in the local shop to salvage your parts and build another motor fine. Tuning will be a factor but if you are mirroring the existing build than the existing tuune should work. Don't know if you had a stock tune.
01-21-2013, 01:48 PM
#53
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******, I found a 355 with LT4 heads and a small cam local that I am hoping to pick up. Price is very nice as well. Just needs Rockers. It has a Eagle cast crank and rods but hyper pistons. Isn't the best built block for all out racing. But it should get the job of cruising done nicely. There is another 355 local as well with no heads. Bit more money but Forged Pistons, shot peened rods and stock crank. It has a donkey dick Cam in it though and not sure the owner at this point would want to pull it. The Cam in it is too big for my lady to drive it. (23X/24X on a 108). A 383 I think is just too much, though there are some great deals. Its just bad timing. I just paid 3100 to the old shop and 6K to move my family home plus I only recently bought this car in August and paid 7500 so my wife is about to explode.
01-21-2013, 02:50 PM
#54
the tear down will reveal the visual on what "broke"....what it won't show on parts like crank/rods/cam/heads are potential (not visable to the eye) twists or cracks that further specific inspection will reveal (magnaflux) and then rebalanceing assumeing you would salvage rods/pistons/cam/crank and just replace the rod and piston that broke
I had a used SBC I got for cheap but it had a hole in the oil pan and I parked the car in the grass as it was an old beater truck. Didn't notice the oil leak. Had a ticking noise for 30 minutes before it wiped the forward rod bearings and threw a rod through the side of the block.
01-21-2013, 02:53 PM
#55
agree the eagle cast crank is not regarded as being as good as a stock one let alone forged. That 355 was rebuilt and has a cam....you will need a tune so if you can confirm cam and compression a mail order should be good for that as a 355 mild cam motor is a known build for most tuners
01-21-2013, 03:05 PM
#56
******, I found a 355 with LT4 heads and a small cam local that I am hoping to pick up. Price is very nice as well. Just needs Rockers. It has a Eagle cast crank and rods but hyper pistons. Isn't the best built block for all out racing. But it should get the job of cruising done nicely. There is another 355 local as well with no heads. Bit more money but Forged Pistons, shot peened rods and stock crank. It has a donkey dick Cam in it though and not sure the owner at this point would want to pull it. The Cam in it is too big for my lady to drive it. (23X/24X on a 108). A 383 I think is just too much, though there are some great deals. Its just bad timing. I just paid 3100 to the old shop and 6K to move my family home plus I only recently bought this car in August and paid 7500 so my wife is about to explode.
Are you sure you want to go with an Eagle cast crank? You may be doing this again down the road. They are very weak, just a warning. Sorry to read about what happened btw.
Edit ^^^ beat me to it.
01-22-2013, 12:12 PM
#57
No need to buy a cast Eagle crank ever. stock crank is far superior. I have blown two SBC before, one was due to no oil as noice stated and the other was a wrist pin failure. It was hurt when it left the shop. If they don't know how to work on a SBC correctly then that shop probably isn't very good.
01-22-2013, 06:19 PM
#58
I'm with mark on that one. Probably fubar as loaded on trailer. Sorry for your luck. Get a nice used unfucked with stock longblock. No need to snowball the thing right now. Get it running mod it later when you have more control of the situation. Trust no one
01-23-2013, 02:59 AM
#59
Just now seeing this thread. Just wow.
I see the comments on not filling it with oil. I also see your comment on where they charged you for an oil change but I did not see where you you said that you requested it. There is no need for an oil change for an opti swap.
I agree the bearings will tell a lot if it was an oil problem but given your statement that the cam and crank rotate fine, I cant see it being oil related.
I am also trying to rationalize how the rod just freak breaking would cause the cam to lock up and shear the bolts. I would suspect a pushrod would bend first but if I had to throw something on the table, I would have to say rod.
I also think there is little doubt it was put on the truck fukd up and someone at that shop knows what happened unless the trucker went out and banged on it. I would also question the quality of the rebuild and parts given that it may have been apart as seen by the staked galley plugs assuming thats not factory, I just dont remember there.
"After the Opti/wires install and a 20 mile drive for code deletion the car was parked and declared done. " This sort of speaks volumes on compententcy too, they could have pulled the fuse to clear the codes.
I am going to have my engine builder look at this thread and get his two cents.
I see the comments on not filling it with oil. I also see your comment on where they charged you for an oil change but I did not see where you you said that you requested it. There is no need for an oil change for an opti swap.
I agree the bearings will tell a lot if it was an oil problem but given your statement that the cam and crank rotate fine, I cant see it being oil related.
I am also trying to rationalize how the rod just freak breaking would cause the cam to lock up and shear the bolts. I would suspect a pushrod would bend first but if I had to throw something on the table, I would have to say rod.
I also think there is little doubt it was put on the truck fukd up and someone at that shop knows what happened unless the trucker went out and banged on it. I would also question the quality of the rebuild and parts given that it may have been apart as seen by the staked galley plugs assuming thats not factory, I just dont remember there.
"After the Opti/wires install and a 20 mile drive for code deletion the car was parked and declared done. " This sort of speaks volumes on compententcy too, they could have pulled the fuse to clear the codes.
I am going to have my engine builder look at this thread and get his two cents.
Last edited by wrd1972; 01-23-2013 at 03:12 AM.