How important is Torque Plating?
How important is Torque Plating? I've only got a few hundred dollars left in my budget 355 build before the wife chokes me out.
The Machinist and I just had a long discussion. He recommend three things which I have not budgeted for. Something is going to have to give.
ARP Mains, ARP Head bolts and Torque Plating. The price to Torque Plate is 150.00, where would you spend the money?
Thanks.
The Machinist and I just had a long discussion. He recommend three things which I have not budgeted for. Something is going to have to give.
ARP Mains, ARP Head bolts and Torque Plating. The price to Torque Plate is 150.00, where would you spend the money?
Thanks.
Truthfully all three of those things are important. However you could save a few bucks by going with the Felpro head bolt kit.
You will definitely want the torque plate while they are boring the engine. When you bolt the heads on there is a small degree of block cylinder distortion from the clamping force of the cylinder heads. If you DON'T simulate this distortion and bore the cylinder they will be true UNTIL you bolt the heads down, at which point the bores will distort and can possibly lead to excessive ring wear, slapping, etc.
If I were you I'd find the extra $$$ somehow to get all of the must-haves. Good luck bud.
You will definitely want the torque plate while they are boring the engine. When you bolt the heads on there is a small degree of block cylinder distortion from the clamping force of the cylinder heads. If you DON'T simulate this distortion and bore the cylinder they will be true UNTIL you bolt the heads down, at which point the bores will distort and can possibly lead to excessive ring wear, slapping, etc.
If I were you I'd find the extra $$$ somehow to get all of the must-haves. Good luck bud.
As your machinist probably said the idea with torque plate finishing a cylinder is to duplicate the actual load on the block from the heads being bolted on. These loads can distort the cylinder if not accounted for. The actual distortion might be relatively small but the increased ring seal that results from using a torque plate will improve all aspects of the engine in its operation and longevity.
With regards to the ARP main bolts, what is the HP you're shooting for and how high are you planning to spin the engine.
For headbolts I would use the ARP ones, I've read some posts of people having trouble with the Felpro headbolts.
ARP makes some beautiful hardware and I would try to find a way to do all 3 things.
With regards to the ARP main bolts, what is the HP you're shooting for and how high are you planning to spin the engine.
For headbolts I would use the ARP ones, I've read some posts of people having trouble with the Felpro headbolts.
ARP makes some beautiful hardware and I would try to find a way to do all 3 things.
Out of those three, definitely torque plating. IIRC ARP head bolts are cheaper than stock and they can be reused to infinity.
Not sure what kind of power the block is supposed to support? Are you going to run nitrous?
Not sure what kind of power the block is supposed to support? Are you going to run nitrous?
put the stock main bolts back in it nothing wrong with them.......plus running arp main fasteners will more than likely require a line hone wihich will murder your budget......as for boring/honing IMO a torque plate is a necissity the seeing a cylinder move .001-.0015 out of round is not uncommon withouth a bore plate
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 323
Likes: 2
From: NW AR
I wouldn't go without a torque plate on anything more than an absolutely stock rebuild. It is a good thing to do for performance builds. That said many engine shops don't use torque plates or even know what a BHJ Fixture is.
As for the head bolts, that will cost you $100 but the mains are only like $25. Neither are needed for a simple rebuild. I would have suggested felpro last year but I got burned by their head bolts and can't recommend them anymore.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32958
Scroll down in the linked thread to see the felpro head bolts.
As for the head bolts, that will cost you $100 but the mains are only like $25. Neither are needed for a simple rebuild. I would have suggested felpro last year but I got burned by their head bolts and can't recommend them anymore.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32958
Scroll down in the linked thread to see the felpro head bolts.
Trending Topics
Guys, you are absolutely correct about torque plates, but I have found you can use head bolts too many times. If the threads show some wear I have found you need to replace them. How long they have been used is not a problem, but how many times they have been used. Worn (shiney) threads don't load the threads in the block the same. The head bolts need to load the threads in the block the same as the torque plate bolts. If, when you remove the heads, you find dark areas at the very top of the cylinders between or near the head bolt holes, you have loaded the bolt holes differently than the torque plate did. This is a really big deal if you are going to make some power.
The best torque plates don't have all short bolts, they use the same length bolts as a cylinder head. Better race engine shops use the same exact bolts that will hold the heads on, and the same part number gasket under the torque plate. I take my bolts, washers, and a head gasket to the machine shop I use (Patterson Racing Engines) and first time They had me bring my torque wrench. Since it tested the same as theirs I don't take my torque wrench any longer. I use the same lube on the bolts and torque value as they did on the torque plate. As I said, it (ring seal) is a pretty big deal for making power.
The best torque plates don't have all short bolts, they use the same length bolts as a cylinder head. Better race engine shops use the same exact bolts that will hold the heads on, and the same part number gasket under the torque plate. I take my bolts, washers, and a head gasket to the machine shop I use (Patterson Racing Engines) and first time They had me bring my torque wrench. Since it tested the same as theirs I don't take my torque wrench any longer. I use the same lube on the bolts and torque value as they did on the torque plate. As I said, it (ring seal) is a pretty big deal for making power.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
LT1 blocks are not that bad.
I have finish honed on with and without plate checked it etc. etc. and no huge difference. Way over rate imo for most stuff.
head bolts are $60 for descent set
stock main bolts are fine, then again your talking about chicken change money here.....
Just wait and save up a little more not worth skimping for that little of money
I have finish honed on with and without plate checked it etc. etc. and no huge difference. Way over rate imo for most stuff.
head bolts are $60 for descent set
stock main bolts are fine, then again your talking about chicken change money here.....
Just wait and save up a little more not worth skimping for that little of money
LT1 blocks are typical production blocks. They ain't much. I don't know what you call "huge", but any distortion there is too much. The more power you make, the more difference it makes. If your cylinders aren't the same color all the way around at the very top when you pull the heads after runing it for a while, your rings are leaking. Blow by costs power. Top race engine shops have proved this over and over. Higher the top rings and narrower (thinner) the top rings the more this means.
Guys, all good input and thanks. I sadly do not have the time. This vehicle is my wifes primary mode of transport while I am in Afghanistan. It has been down a month, her Father needs his truck back Saturday, it is causing family drama. The mechanic working on my car said he needs my car out of his garage ASAP. My Father in law hired him since I am gone and he was cheap. Basically, no one told me **** and then all of the sudden it had to get done, now! The Machine shop said they can finish by Friday but I needed to provide these ARP parts ASAP to do so. Also, my father in law originally agreed to help pay for this. He told me on the phone last night he's not paying for a "race" engine and wanted his truck back Friday. Said if he didn't get it, count him out. Real nice, i know. That is why I am budget and time limited.
Lesson learned. Family and Racing don't usually mix well.
Lesson learned. Family and Racing don't usually mix well.
I would for sure leave the mains out if on a budget, hell I did on my built...... I'd go with the ARP head bolt kit though, not that much more than OEM and worth it in the long run.
You already have your in put on the torque plating.
You already have your in put on the torque plating.
ed your absolutly right.........head bolts as anything have a life expectancy mainly based on torque cycles of being tightened and loosened, and my machine shop want the head bolts or studs that will be used on the motor when boring as well as the main fasteners
The ones that worry me are the guys just pulling the pan to change rod bolts. Like if it doesn't blow up it was good enough. Loose a rod bearing 20,000 miles down the road and they don't see the connection.
Run that by your machinist. :-)
Run that by your machinist. :-)
Guys, you are absolutely correct about torque plates, but I have found you can use head bolts too many times. If the threads show some wear I have found you need to replace them. How long they have been used is not a problem, but how many times they have been used. Worn (shiney) threads don't load the threads in the block the same. The head bolts need to load the threads in the block the same as the torque plate bolts. If, when you remove the heads, you find dark areas at the very top of the cylinders between or near the head bolt holes, you have loaded the bolt holes differently than the torque plate did. This is a really big deal if you are going to make some power.
The best torque plates don't have all short bolts, they use the same length bolts as a cylinder head. Better race engine shops use the same exact bolts that will hold the heads on, and the same part number gasket under the torque plate. I take my bolts, washers, and a head gasket to the machine shop I use (Patterson Racing Engines) and first time They had me bring my torque wrench. Since it tested the same as theirs I don't take my torque wrench any longer. I use the same lube on the bolts and torque value as they did on the torque plate. As I said, it (ring seal) is a pretty big deal for making power.
The best torque plates don't have all short bolts, they use the same length bolts as a cylinder head. Better race engine shops use the same exact bolts that will hold the heads on, and the same part number gasket under the torque plate. I take my bolts, washers, and a head gasket to the machine shop I use (Patterson Racing Engines) and first time They had me bring my torque wrench. Since it tested the same as theirs I don't take my torque wrench any longer. I use the same lube on the bolts and torque value as they did on the torque plate. As I said, it (ring seal) is a pretty big deal for making power.
i put up a post in the ls1 section showing this on a motor i rebuilt last year, showing the spot in the bearing where the cap ovaled from the extra pressure as well as showing the measurement of the bearing in the rod and how out of round it actually was.....of course all the LS1 nuthuggers jumped all over me telling me im an idiot and how much experience they all have..........half the reason i own an LT1 lol
