Motor build Ideas
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Motor build Ideas So came up alittle short of the whole pro-touring build thread but ill have to take it one step at a time in the right forum sections. Have an some goals with the LT1 and needs some first hand guys with your experience.
Im looking to build a high compression solid roller motor. Looking to run an E85 set-up or it running VP100. The goal is around 600rwhp to 700. Im going to give a few guys a call like LE, AI, AFR, and Chad Golen. What I had in mind was the following and go ahead and edit it if you have better recommendations:
Just the motor.
396 LTx
4 bolt
Ported Stock intake or single plane
ported 200cc-227cc heads 21 degree
26x/26x SR cam .700+” lift
Crower Hippo or Isky Red Zones lifters
Smith Bros Pushrods
Manly NexTek .700+”
1.7 Shaft rockers T&D
12.5:1-13:1 Compression
Dry-sump oiling system
W/ Stock WP Cant imagine an EP on an high RPM build with the amount of abuse ill be giving it.
With the right tuning and parts I see the goal of at-least 600rwhp not a problem. Ill post the drive-train, suspension, chassis, wheels in their section.
Im looking to build a high compression solid roller motor. Looking to run an E85 set-up or it running VP100. The goal is around 600rwhp to 700. Im going to give a few guys a call like LE, AI, AFR, and Chad Golen. What I had in mind was the following and go ahead and edit it if you have better recommendations:
Just the motor.
396 LTx
4 bolt
Ported Stock intake or single plane
ported 200cc-227cc heads 21 degree
26x/26x SR cam .700+” lift
Crower Hippo or Isky Red Zones lifters
Smith Bros Pushrods
Manly NexTek .700+”
1.7 Shaft rockers T&D
12.5:1-13:1 Compression
Dry-sump oiling system
W/ Stock WP Cant imagine an EP on an high RPM build with the amount of abuse ill be giving it.
With the right tuning and parts I see the goal of at-least 600rwhp not a problem. Ill post the drive-train, suspension, chassis, wheels in their section.
Launching!
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From: Midwest City, Ok
Sounds like a neat build. You will want a single plane with that engine though. 24x swap or standalone fuel management for sure.
All that being said 700 naturally aspirated rwhp is a pipe dream. That's 800+ at the crank. Need boost or nitrous for those numbers.
All that being said 700 naturally aspirated rwhp is a pipe dream. That's 800+ at the crank. Need boost or nitrous for those numbers.
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Is this the Dry-Sump LT1 your talking about?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...mp-an-lt1.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...post1566357004
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Stand alone is what I had in mind. "Current performance" or F.A.S.T look like good choices.
Last edited by LT1/4; Apr 29, 2013 at 02:54 AM.
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Midwest City, Ok
Was doing some research for you. This is what I found.
"I built this with the intention of being the fastest nitrous lt1 in the world...not one single penny was spared in building this
well ill start to break down the price list and parts break down as best as i can:
Block: $500 96 lt1 block, half filled
Crank: $1200 Callies Dragon Slayer 3.875 Stroke, Internally balanced
Rods: $800 Oliver 5.850 with ARP 2000 Bolts
Bearings: $225 Clevite H Series Chamfered and oil Grooved
Pistons: $1450 Custom JE's with every option, Side Pin Oilers, Lateral Gas Ports made to handle 400+ of nitrous
Main Caps: $200 Pro-gram Splayed Billet
Piston Rings: $250 Hell Fire 3/16 3/16 3mm
Lifters: $450 Isky .180 offset W/ Guide bar, Solid Roller
Cam: $350 Comp Cams Solid Roller 268/284@.050 114LSA .440 lobe lift
Oil Pump: $125 Canton High Volume Pump W/ Canton Pick up
Timing Chain: $150 Cloyes Hex-Adjust Double Roller
Head Gaskets: $165 Custom Cometic 4.060 bore .050 thick (.040 quench)
Cylinder Heads: $4500 plus $350 to clean up AFR 215 Raised Runner CNC'd Cleaned up by Brandon (Cylinder Head Teacher at school)
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
143 209 263 306 331 338
Valve Springs: AFR(REV) 320 Seat Pressure 720 Open Pressure, .750 lift
Fasteners: $ 500 ARP Studs Throughout
Rockers: $1200 Jessel Pro Series 1:7 ratio
Pushrods: $375 Smith Brothers 3/8
Intake: $400 Dart-42521000 $800 Ported by Brandon
Carburetor: $1450 Braswell Dominator Built Specifically for this engine
Balancer: $400 Fluidampner
Valve Covers: $225 GM Performance Parts Cast Aluminum, Powder Coated Black
Oil Pan: $250 Canton 7 Qt
Crank Trigger: $275 MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger
Water Pump: $150 CSR Electric Pump
Vacuum Pump: $560 Moroso-22642 4-vane
Catch Can: $75 Moroso Vacuum Pump Catch Can
Motor Plates: $ 350 Mad-man Front and Mid Plates
Oil Gallies: Main Oil Gallies Drilled out and Restrictors installed
Distributor: $250 MSD Pro Billet Low Profile Cap
Plug Wires: $150 Moroso Race Wires
that right there is $18,125 in Parts alone...
It made 680hp at 7,300 rpm and and 522.8 ftlbs tq at 6,400 rpm...this was with out my carb on it and with no vacuum pump... i feel it should make 720ish once broken in fully and tuned some more with my carb and vac. pump on it"
At $18,000 that engine costs almost the entire budget you mentioned in the Pro Touring thread.
That build is incredibly similar to what you were looking to build yet it even has higher compression and arguably superior cylinder heads. I'm a huge fan of AFR's Raised Runner heads. I've seen what Joe Sherman can do with them.
Anyway, 680 at the crank. With less compression and head you're looking at 625-650 maybe. At 12~15% driveline loss...well you get the idea. I'm not trying to **** on your build I just don't want you to be disappointed. I've seen too many people build cars and engines being WAYY too concerned with the dyno number after its done. Who cares. As long as it does the job the numbers are irrelevant.
"I built this with the intention of being the fastest nitrous lt1 in the world...not one single penny was spared in building this
well ill start to break down the price list and parts break down as best as i can:
Block: $500 96 lt1 block, half filled
Crank: $1200 Callies Dragon Slayer 3.875 Stroke, Internally balanced
Rods: $800 Oliver 5.850 with ARP 2000 Bolts
Bearings: $225 Clevite H Series Chamfered and oil Grooved
Pistons: $1450 Custom JE's with every option, Side Pin Oilers, Lateral Gas Ports made to handle 400+ of nitrous
Main Caps: $200 Pro-gram Splayed Billet
Piston Rings: $250 Hell Fire 3/16 3/16 3mm
Lifters: $450 Isky .180 offset W/ Guide bar, Solid Roller
Cam: $350 Comp Cams Solid Roller 268/284@.050 114LSA .440 lobe lift
Oil Pump: $125 Canton High Volume Pump W/ Canton Pick up
Timing Chain: $150 Cloyes Hex-Adjust Double Roller
Head Gaskets: $165 Custom Cometic 4.060 bore .050 thick (.040 quench)
Cylinder Heads: $4500 plus $350 to clean up AFR 215 Raised Runner CNC'd Cleaned up by Brandon (Cylinder Head Teacher at school)
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
143 209 263 306 331 338
Valve Springs: AFR(REV) 320 Seat Pressure 720 Open Pressure, .750 lift
Fasteners: $ 500 ARP Studs Throughout
Rockers: $1200 Jessel Pro Series 1:7 ratio
Pushrods: $375 Smith Brothers 3/8
Intake: $400 Dart-42521000 $800 Ported by Brandon
Carburetor: $1450 Braswell Dominator Built Specifically for this engine
Balancer: $400 Fluidampner
Valve Covers: $225 GM Performance Parts Cast Aluminum, Powder Coated Black
Oil Pan: $250 Canton 7 Qt
Crank Trigger: $275 MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger
Water Pump: $150 CSR Electric Pump
Vacuum Pump: $560 Moroso-22642 4-vane
Catch Can: $75 Moroso Vacuum Pump Catch Can
Motor Plates: $ 350 Mad-man Front and Mid Plates
Oil Gallies: Main Oil Gallies Drilled out and Restrictors installed
Distributor: $250 MSD Pro Billet Low Profile Cap
Plug Wires: $150 Moroso Race Wires
that right there is $18,125 in Parts alone...
It made 680hp at 7,300 rpm and and 522.8 ftlbs tq at 6,400 rpm...this was with out my carb on it and with no vacuum pump... i feel it should make 720ish once broken in fully and tuned some more with my carb and vac. pump on it"
At $18,000 that engine costs almost the entire budget you mentioned in the Pro Touring thread.
That build is incredibly similar to what you were looking to build yet it even has higher compression and arguably superior cylinder heads. I'm a huge fan of AFR's Raised Runner heads. I've seen what Joe Sherman can do with them.
Anyway, 680 at the crank. With less compression and head you're looking at 625-650 maybe. At 12~15% driveline loss...well you get the idea. I'm not trying to **** on your build I just don't want you to be disappointed. I've seen too many people build cars and engines being WAYY too concerned with the dyno number after its done. Who cares. As long as it does the job the numbers are irrelevant.
Last edited by BOOSTED AFR; Apr 29, 2013 at 09:31 AM.
I agree with boostedAFR, don't get so caught up in the numbers! With that being said my build is very close to your goals but falls short.I made over 670 at the crank dyno day but with some bugs worked out and the addition of my vacuum pump I'm close if not a hair over 700 now.But I'm running higher cr at 14.3 to do it.Granted my cam isn't really aggressive but I think you will need more than the 12-13:1 cr you said you would run to reach your numbers.Also you will need some killer chad spier type heads atop that stroker along with a single plane for revs you will need to spin IMO! Definatly doable good luck with build..
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Too harsh on the criticism. Take it down a notch with a helpful post. lol just because you havent done it doesnt mean it cant happen for someone else. I just have to figure out if I want to stay LTx or go LSX for 600rwhp... Budget is around 22k And 18 grand on motor and 4k on everything else. Ill have to figure some things out as I go along. Suspension & H.C.I seems like a better area to start as I evolve the car into my goals.
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Was doing some research for you. This is what I found.
"I built this with the intention of being the fastest nitrous lt1 in the world...not one single penny was spared in building this
well ill start to break down the price list and parts break down as best as i can:
Block: $500 96 lt1 block, half filled
Crank: $1200 Callies Dragon Slayer 3.875 Stroke, Internally balanced
Rods: $800 Oliver 5.850 with ARP 2000 Bolts
Bearings: $225 Clevite H Series Chamfered and oil Grooved
Pistons: $1450 Custom JE's with every option, Side Pin Oilers, Lateral Gas Ports made to handle 400+ of nitrous
Main Caps: $200 Pro-gram Splayed Billet
Piston Rings: $250 Hell Fire 3/16 3/16 3mm
Lifters: $450 Isky .180 offset W/ Guide bar, Solid Roller
Cam: $350 Comp Cams Solid Roller 268/284@.050 114LSA .440 lobe lift
Oil Pump: $125 Canton High Volume Pump W/ Canton Pick up
Timing Chain: $150 Cloyes Hex-Adjust Double Roller
Head Gaskets: $165 Custom Cometic 4.060 bore .050 thick (.040 quench)
Cylinder Heads: $4500 plus $350 to clean up AFR 215 Raised Runner CNC'd Cleaned up by Brandon (Cylinder Head Teacher at school)
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
143 209 263 306 331 338
Valve Springs: AFR(REV) 320 Seat Pressure 720 Open Pressure, .750 lift
Fasteners: $ 500 ARP Studs Throughout
Rockers: $1200 Jessel Pro Series 1:7 ratio
Pushrods: $375 Smith Brothers 3/8
Intake: $400 Dart-42521000 $800 Ported by Brandon
Carburetor: $1450 Braswell Dominator Built Specifically for this engine
Balancer: $400 Fluidampner
Valve Covers: $225 GM Performance Parts Cast Aluminum, Powder Coated Black
Oil Pan: $250 Canton 7 Qt
Crank Trigger: $275 MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger
Water Pump: $150 CSR Electric Pump
Vacuum Pump: $560 Moroso-22642 4-vane
Catch Can: $75 Moroso Vacuum Pump Catch Can
Motor Plates: $ 350 Mad-man Front and Mid Plates
Oil Gallies: Main Oil Gallies Drilled out and Restrictors installed
Distributor: $250 MSD Pro Billet Low Profile Cap
Plug Wires: $150 Moroso Race Wires
that right there is $18,125 in Parts alone...
It made 680hp at 7,300 rpm and and 522.8 ftlbs tq at 6,400 rpm...this was with out my carb on it and with no vacuum pump... i feel it should make 720ish once broken in fully and tuned some more with my carb and vac. pump on it"
At $18,000 that engine costs almost the entire budget you mentioned in the Pro Touring thread.
That build is incredibly similar to what you were looking to build yet it even has higher compression and arguably superior cylinder heads. I'm a huge fan of AFR's Raised Runner heads. I've seen what Joe Sherman can do with them.
Anyway, 680 at the crank. With less compression and head you're looking at 625-650 maybe. At 12~15% driveline loss...well you get the idea. I'm not trying to **** on your build I just don't want you to be disappointed. I've seen too many people build cars and engines being WAYY too concerned with the dyno number after its done. Who cares. As long as it does the job the numbers are irrelevant.
"I built this with the intention of being the fastest nitrous lt1 in the world...not one single penny was spared in building this
well ill start to break down the price list and parts break down as best as i can:
Block: $500 96 lt1 block, half filled
Crank: $1200 Callies Dragon Slayer 3.875 Stroke, Internally balanced
Rods: $800 Oliver 5.850 with ARP 2000 Bolts
Bearings: $225 Clevite H Series Chamfered and oil Grooved
Pistons: $1450 Custom JE's with every option, Side Pin Oilers, Lateral Gas Ports made to handle 400+ of nitrous
Main Caps: $200 Pro-gram Splayed Billet
Piston Rings: $250 Hell Fire 3/16 3/16 3mm
Lifters: $450 Isky .180 offset W/ Guide bar, Solid Roller
Cam: $350 Comp Cams Solid Roller 268/284@.050 114LSA .440 lobe lift
Oil Pump: $125 Canton High Volume Pump W/ Canton Pick up
Timing Chain: $150 Cloyes Hex-Adjust Double Roller
Head Gaskets: $165 Custom Cometic 4.060 bore .050 thick (.040 quench)
Cylinder Heads: $4500 plus $350 to clean up AFR 215 Raised Runner CNC'd Cleaned up by Brandon (Cylinder Head Teacher at school)
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
143 209 263 306 331 338
Valve Springs: AFR(REV) 320 Seat Pressure 720 Open Pressure, .750 lift
Fasteners: $ 500 ARP Studs Throughout
Rockers: $1200 Jessel Pro Series 1:7 ratio
Pushrods: $375 Smith Brothers 3/8
Intake: $400 Dart-42521000 $800 Ported by Brandon
Carburetor: $1450 Braswell Dominator Built Specifically for this engine
Balancer: $400 Fluidampner
Valve Covers: $225 GM Performance Parts Cast Aluminum, Powder Coated Black
Oil Pan: $250 Canton 7 Qt
Crank Trigger: $275 MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger
Water Pump: $150 CSR Electric Pump
Vacuum Pump: $560 Moroso-22642 4-vane
Catch Can: $75 Moroso Vacuum Pump Catch Can
Motor Plates: $ 350 Mad-man Front and Mid Plates
Oil Gallies: Main Oil Gallies Drilled out and Restrictors installed
Distributor: $250 MSD Pro Billet Low Profile Cap
Plug Wires: $150 Moroso Race Wires
that right there is $18,125 in Parts alone...
It made 680hp at 7,300 rpm and and 522.8 ftlbs tq at 6,400 rpm...this was with out my carb on it and with no vacuum pump... i feel it should make 720ish once broken in fully and tuned some more with my carb and vac. pump on it"
At $18,000 that engine costs almost the entire budget you mentioned in the Pro Touring thread.
That build is incredibly similar to what you were looking to build yet it even has higher compression and arguably superior cylinder heads. I'm a huge fan of AFR's Raised Runner heads. I've seen what Joe Sherman can do with them.
Anyway, 680 at the crank. With less compression and head you're looking at 625-650 maybe. At 12~15% driveline loss...well you get the idea. I'm not trying to **** on your build I just don't want you to be disappointed. I've seen too many people build cars and engines being WAYY too concerned with the dyno number after its done. Who cares. As long as it does the job the numbers are irrelevant.
If you think Golen is competent for a mild street build then you aren't capable of the necessary research.
HP oilpumps on high rpm builds cavitate and create problems.
Most of the best performing LT1s are 383s not 396s, the "bigger is better" mentality is going to hurt you.
The stock waterpump does move more water but is going to sap power and cavitate badly at the rpms this will need.
The $18K motor said PARTS ONLY, there is easily a couple grand more in labor.
$4k for everything else???? You will need to spend nearly that much on a tranny then you still have axle, suspension, exhaust, fuel system.
Like I said quit now.
HP oilpumps on high rpm builds cavitate and create problems.
Most of the best performing LT1s are 383s not 396s, the "bigger is better" mentality is going to hurt you.
The stock waterpump does move more water but is going to sap power and cavitate badly at the rpms this will need.
The $18K motor said PARTS ONLY, there is easily a couple grand more in labor.
$4k for everything else???? You will need to spend nearly that much on a tranny then you still have axle, suspension, exhaust, fuel system.
Like I said quit now.
Never saw so many in one place using HV oil pumps. Don't know why they make those damn things for a SBC. Guess they know somebody will buy them. Should be illegal. Absolutely no need for them. Sad.
Just say NO!!
Just say NO!!
Wheather or not the op hits his hp goals this could still be a successful build.He could run a sb2.2 top end exceed his goals and also budget but it is doable.Everyone always says ask first before you build and that's what he's doing so he's at least open to suggestions!
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If you think Golen is competent for a mild street build then you aren't capable of the necessary research.
HP oilpumps on high rpm builds cavitate and create problems.
Most of the best performing LT1s are 383s not 396s, the "bigger is better" mentality is going to hurt you.
The stock waterpump does move more water but is going to sap power and cavitate badly at the rpms this will need.
The $18K motor said PARTS ONLY, there is easily a couple grand more in labor.
$4k for everything else???? You will need to spend nearly that much on a tranny then you still have axle, suspension, exhaust, fuel system.
Like I said quit now.
HP oilpumps on high rpm builds cavitate and create problems.
Most of the best performing LT1s are 383s not 396s, the "bigger is better" mentality is going to hurt you.
The stock waterpump does move more water but is going to sap power and cavitate badly at the rpms this will need.
The $18K motor said PARTS ONLY, there is easily a couple grand more in labor.
$4k for everything else???? You will need to spend nearly that much on a tranny then you still have axle, suspension, exhaust, fuel system.
Like I said quit now.
Starting out small then working my way up is the best option. Ill have to invest more in everything else other then the motor but my goals wont go away. Itll take time with the money after the 22k is blown.
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Wheather or not the op hits his hp goals this could still be a successful build.He could run a sb2.2 top end exceed his goals and also budget but it is doable.Everyone always says ask first before you build and that's what he's doing so he's at least open to suggestions!
Right now there are at least a dozen sb2.2 set ups on eBay right now complete with springs and matching intake in the 1500-$2000 range.Now obviously there are a lot of other factors to consider like custom headers$,either running a carb/or converting intake to fuel injection$,rockers are more expensive,valve covers,possibly a new hood due to clearance just to name a few! On the upside a guy local to me runs this setup NA on 406sbc and runs 8.90s with his mild cam.He has a more aggressive cam but says it will eat springs to quickly considering he drives the car to and from track.
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Posts: 2,630
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If you really want that kind of power, you'd be better off talking to a reputable engine shop, and explain the parameters you need to hit. 700hp at the crank, LT1 block, FAST XFI, etc, etc. A shop like BES that has a TON of experience with all sorts of platforms could analyze and adapt proper sbc stuff to the LT1 and hit those numbers. I bet you'd go way over your budget though. That parts list on that build a few posts above is misleading. You can shop around and beat a LOT of those prices if you look hard enough. I think you should take it down a notch and shoot for 600 flywheel and 500 at the tire. That opens up a lot of AVAILABLE LT1 parts, and won't require nearly as many one-off fabricated/converted parts.
Not a matter of liking to discourage people, matter of hoping to stop folks before they get in over their head. I would rather see you drive it forever with boltons than tear into things get in over your head and sell a basketcase project at a massive loss.
Forget the dream and just do the normal progression, boltons, them cam or heads and cam, then maybe a 355/383. You stand a MUCH better shot at doing it well if you start learning at a basic level instead of aiming for the stars right out of the gate.
Forget the dream and just do the normal progression, boltons, them cam or heads and cam, then maybe a 355/383. You stand a MUCH better shot at doing it well if you start learning at a basic level instead of aiming for the stars right out of the gate.
Not a matter of liking to discourage people, matter of hoping to stop folks before they get in over their head. I would rather see you drive it forever with boltons than tear into things get in over your head and sell a basketcase project at a massive loss.
Forget the dream and just do the normal progression, boltons, them cam or heads and cam, then maybe a 355/383. You stand a MUCH better shot at doing it well if you start learning at a basic level instead of aiming for the stars right out of the gate.
Forget the dream and just do the normal progression, boltons, them cam or heads and cam, then maybe a 355/383. You stand a MUCH better shot at doing it well if you start learning at a basic level instead of aiming for the stars right out of the gate.
Its a never ending cycle and luckily I work at a dealership and can get a discount on parts and buy a lot used.
I would question why an LT1/4? Other platforms have more potential, I just did LT4 because I had a lot of the parts.
What exactly is your final goal, I know you said trailer queen, but is it still a pro touring or what?
Like I said, talk to people first, that's a lot of money, time and headache, and that's not something you'll pull of yourself, you'll need a large budget for labor. We just don't want you to waste it! PLAN PLAN PLAN!