streetwarrior96

lol...just an opinion that's all. I guess just mainly cause the cars run hot out from the factory.

EliteCamaro94

sorry to hijack this thread but im having cooling issues as well. Ive replaced the radiator and all the hoses, the waterpump and the thermostat. As long as im moving the car is down by the mid line between the bottom line and half way line. If im stuck in traffic the car after stop and go for a while will be up to the top white line on the gauge never goes past that line but it gets up there and that scares the hell out of me.

Ive never heard of getting the pcm tuned for lower fan temps. How do I go about getting that out to get the tune put on it? What temps are you guys having them set at.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

RETARD, the electric cooling fan on temps are set hot for EMISSIONS reasons. If you actually compare highway temps with fan on temps the first fan is programmed to come on like 30 degrees hotter than the highway cruise temp seen with forward momentum airflow.

Far as radiator cooling capacity. I thought of another possible compromising factor I heard of from a reputable source. A very intelligent guy with a car making 4 digit HP found that if he let Dexcool dry in the radiator it left a film that could not be cleaned out and caused overheating till he simply replaced the radiator.
GM also was using stopleak products from the factory which can cause deposits. People neglect these possibilities and BLINDLY curse anything stock as sub-par.

Jon A

I don't think anybody is talking about $2K. The Be Cool is only $540 this Griffen is only $444 and with two 1" rows it'll be significantly better than stock. So you're looking at a price difference in the $350-$450 range for significantly improved cooling. And yes, he very likely would come back looking for more after getting a stock replacement--especially if he mods the engine for more power in the future as many of us have experienced already.

EliteCamaro94

arey guys implying that dexacool should not be used? i thought thats what we had to run in the lt1 cars, thats what i have read on here at least

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

INCORRECT. Reverse cooling sends coolant to the heads first, lowering their temperature lower than old school small blocks. This is how the LT1 ran well with a "high" (for the time) compression ratio. It was a pretty good idea and it works.

It's other components of the system that we curse at.

Purchase a replacement PCM on ebay. Plenty sellers that'll even program in your VIN. Then send it or your original to a mail order tuner like PCMforless and have them tweak it up. This way your car isn't down for the week or so it takes.

Most guys use the 160 degree thermostat and have the fans come on at like 165 and full speed at 185.

Dexcool has been known to increase the rotting of intake manifold gaskets. I owned three cars inflicted with this. Most folks flush it and use good old Prestone green.

z_speedfreak

iTrader: (3)

Back from the dead or just been lurking?

Dexcool doesnt like being exposed to air either....tho it is nicer on alum i hear so maybe i should run it but.......nah

GermanLSX

Lol ill bet you that 2 grand. You will lose. the most I spend on a cooling system is 700 Euros which I think is about $1000. Im just getting something that will last for more then 10 years, not having to worry about cracks, leaks, blown head gasket or any nonsense. I want to drive the car in a nonchalant manner.

The reverse flow cooling on our LT1’s were an advantage maintaining cooling chambers and running more compression on pump gas. Here we run pump Aral 102 octane. I will give your LT1’s systems better cooling rating then my older BMW 8 series I sold with the M73 (330hp) engine and they ran 190-210 plus with a new radiator I had installed. (Stocker replacement)

The LT1 ran cooler when I first got it new here especially on the highway but it hates slow driving; anything off the autobahn. It did get to 250 once the other day when I got off the bahn and it scared me a little. Thats why im looking to for an upgraded system for when I get off the highway, it doesn't overheat. so far like your folks recommendation.

DVS the car is stock except for the wheels, few suspension mods, and has a K&N Cold Air Intake. Ill be doing bolt-ons soon and see how well she does with a cam, rocker, pushrod, lifter upgrade soon. I know you think the car wont need an upgraded cooling system with stock motor but I rather plan ahead of time, and the car wasn't made for german style driving. I did race some of my BMW, Benz, Audi buddies so I will stick with upgraded radiator. When new it would get to 230 after ripping the motor consistently to 5800rpms when racing. Now im taking it easy only for cruising until I get my new cooling system or just a radiator. Dont get the impression that im getting carried away with a NASCAR cooling system or something. Im investing just a level above a stock one.

Jon A

Yes, I use it in both the Camaro (with pure water) and my Trailblazer (with 50/50 regular antifreeze). I haven't done any carefully documented before/after tests myself to see what effect it's having, it has a good enough reputation I put it in the "might as well" category.

No, the stock fans work just fine. The stock fans are very good, the only reason I'd get rid of them is to save weight on a track only car.
For the longest time Be-Cool had a mistake in the specs on their site, it looks like Summit doesn't have it corrected but Jegs does. The 700 HP rating is correct, this is the slip that came with mine:



No, this is not correct. At high speeds the fans do nothing. I have mine programed to turn off completely at 70 MPH. On or off, above that speed it makes no difference. If he was having problems overheating while idling around in traffic, yes, the fans would be the likely culprit.

There's nothing pointless with listening to the advice of those who have been there and done that and have a good understanding of how the system works. While the application he describes doesn't place quite as high a demand on the cooling system as hard use on a roadcourse, it's many times higher than typical street driving or any form of drag racing. If he happens upon a curvier road with a lower average speed and higher throttle duty cycle that's basically the same thing as running a roadcourse.

He needs a new radiator. The better question is why go cheap for an inferior part which he'll likely want to replace in the future anyway?

He does mention having future upgrades in mind. It doesn't take much--my stock radiator wasn't getting it done with a cam-only setup. Back when LS1 cars were ruling SCCA T2 roadracing, they were eventually allowed an aftermarket replacement radiator to use with their stock engines because the stock radiator wasn't getting it done. The LT1 radiator is better than theirs but not by a whole lot when compared with a good aftermarket unit.
Just doing my good deed for the year.

Jon A

Exactly. Different applications have different requirements, that shouldn't be so hard to accept. You don't need an oil cooler or better brakes for street driving and drag racing either...but those are subjects for a different thread....
I thought you didn’t want to buy things you didn’t need?
Not my view, the correct view. While the stock radiator is better than the LS cars’ and perfectly adequate for street use and drag racing, those applications don’t really require much from the cooling system. In applications which place high demands on the cooling system you will run into its limitations. Compared with the BeCool or the larger Griffens it is vastly inferior. In such applications, upgrading it will provide a dramatic improvement in the cooling system’s performance.

The stock fans, though heavy, really are quite good. You need to shop the aftermarket carefully to find fans that will move as much air as they will—the vast majority of electric fans on the market won’t. They’re actually quite popular on other vehicles as an upgrade in lieu of the more expensive Spal, Flex-a-Lite, Derale, units.

If we were talking about a pickup/SUV/tow rig, then yes, one could use more fan. That application needs more powerful fans. I can use 100% of my Trailblazer’s HP for a sustained period of time without breaking the speed limit—it relies on the fan for most of its airflow. There’s no reason one should ever need more fan in an F-Body—any time you keep your foot in it very long you’ll be at triple digit speeds and Mother Nature provides more airflow than any electric fan ever will. On the track or the Autobahn, more expensive fans will make no difference.

GermanLSX

Lol you seriously going to think im in the kitty pool right now? Nice try fella. Yes I know about the infamous opti sparks and no problems with it so far. Thats because I check the thing religiously to make sure its dry, and no oil leaks. The water pump, gaskets, drive seal, coupling, and gear I ordered last night. Been checking the Opti Spark for the past 3 days with the WP leaking and the cap barely is wet. So im not too worried about the Opti Spark. As a matter of fact when I first got the car a little over a year ago the opti spark was brand new. I put on new stock wires because one was burnt and replaced the AC delco spark plugs.

Ive heard all the horror stories about the Opti-Sparks and its pretty much common sense that if you keep it dry it will last. Ive noticed a lot of guys on other forums that their Opti sparks go bad as soon as their water pump leaks. Well luckily mine is running good so far. When I install the new WP ill be opening the cap to make sure everything is in shape.


I expect the car to last 10 more years because ill be putting in some new bearings and ARP bolts within the next few months when I look into valve-train upgrades. But even then with my religious synthetic 10-40 castrol oil changes [2500 miles] I dont see why it wouldn't last another 10 years or 100,000 miles [the way it is now in stock form] as long as its tuned to perfection, good oiling, and good cooling.

Cars start to lose their durability once you start modifying. If you modify smart then it’ll last as long as a stock car. It all depends on how well you take care of it so dont assume since im a Bavarian driving an american muscle car that it’ll be more difficult maintaining it. lol I know these cars werent built like most of our OHC engines but these pushrod engine do run if people will give them a chance to shine. Heck ill even admit that these chevy’s are more reliable and easier to work on than the same model years of our BMW’s [90’s]

You think your american LT1 small blocks are hard to work on? Try changing the plugs or work on the cooling system on a M73 motor and you will get no sleep at all. lol

I just went with a new custom made radiator to ship here [Dresden] and fans shop "WP-Group” They sold me for 500 euros for a 1.5” aluminum core with double fans. Includes transmission cooler. 5 row core. Which isnt bad at all.. Should take a few days to get here with the direct fit connectors specific for a 94 Z28. Reminiscent to Fluidynes radiators. How do these compare to Be-Cool or Griffin in price range?

Sadly they dont have the software to tune the stock fans to come on sooner. Any suggestions on getting the PCM tuned for that?

GermanLSX

Should of read this earlier about tuning the fans. I will have to look into PCMforless. Never heard of them. Hoping I can find someone locally that can do that. WP-group said they dont know anyone between Dresden and Berlin that tunes LT1 Computers. Ill have to call PCMforless and look into 160 thermostat.

69gto96z

iTrader: (13)

You can get 5 years out of a stock plastic radiator?! Dang, I only averaged 2, maybe 3 if I was lucky when I was DDing the car year round in TX.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

what year car? The 94-5 computer is particularly cheap and easy to reprogram at home.

94FBIRD

iTrader: (5)

FYI, I have the Griffin and although putting it in was a nightmare. It does run 30 degrees cooler with 383 with 12.4 to 1 comp. compared to the stock 350 with 11.5 to 1. So yeah, it's very effective.

GermanLSX

Its a 94 with OBD-1 whats the cheap and easy way to do it at home?

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

IMO radiators are like sparkplugs and wires. People replace them when they are shot and then proclaim whatever they put in as replacement is AWESOME because it works better than the worn out crap it replaced.

Far as turning the fans on sooner and all kinds of other stuff the software is called Tunercat the company even offers a package deal with the connection cable and datalogging software called Datamaster.

ADM

A rather interesting topic, great read I must say

Would like to share my experience.

When I purchased my LT1 it had a busted radiator. Was advised by many to custom fab a thicker than OEM one. I went against their word and got an OEM from the dealer and installed a 160 thermostat.

Never saw the needle above the 1/4 mark during summer even when driving in heavy traffic and temperates here can average 45-47 degrees C, some days even 49 degrees C.

All this with milled heads, a cam and mild steel long tube headers which don't really help making the engine bay any cooler.

I also run pure water, no anti-freeze or coolant of any sort.

GermanLSX

Hey DVS thanks for understanding my situation. Your actually a pretty good guesser haha. I was raised in Manhattan with a single mother till I was 8 until my mother passed away (cancer) and then went to live with my father in Dresden Germany until he passed away in 2009. He passed down his knowledge and expertise to me working in the aviation industry for BHM Berlin. Now im just a lone wolf I guess you can say. Reason I say that is im the only guy living in Dresden with an LT1

Both being an american and german is obviously one of the reasons why I speak fluent english and learned Dutch & German here. Heck im still learning a little both Dutch/German after being here almost 18 years. lol I really miss the states and hope I can get my way back there soon and find work over there.

Long story short about the parts im running on my car.

Lol for the time being MOV-It brakes I have my sights on soon, but the brakes im running [I didnt even mention] a few months after I bought the car I got a good deal on a mild brembo brake system. Drilled rotors, Hawk Pads, 4 piston calipers that put me down the hole $2000 americans. Carbon Ceramic are something of the future. maybe a set of ZR1’s and ill be good to stop at any rate. When I first got the car it had stock brakes and they shook an earthquake when getting off to an exit. Rotors were warped and had cracks when I bought the car. At that point I made a decision to slow down earlier before an exit, because your right those stock brakes only lasted about 3000 miles until I replaced with the brembos. The ones im running now are nothing special but will fit my needs and my driving style. I also invested in new bushings through out. New Eibach Coil Overs I got for $900. Couldnt find a better deal. The only other mod ive done to the car is a CAI, and a set matte black "DV 3 piece D2 forged Concave" wheels I bought from Wheelscompany.com near Hamburg.

To answer your question im running a 6 speed with the 3.73 gears with a 10 bolt. I blew the stock rear end several months ago and was about to get a 12 bolt but honestly didnt need a 12 bolt right now. Old rear had the 3.23 and got me great mileage but wanted something alittle quicker on the roll. 3.73 For the tuning and speed limiter I dont think it has one since its a 6 speed. My trap speed in 6th gear is 153mph and 5th is 165mph at 5800rpm. Not sure when I get the PCM tuned I will get hassled about speed limiters. Honestly im not that great when it comes to cars computers. I could though question about timing and seeing if that will free up some power. Not sure ill give PCMforless an extension call. About the fuel, yes its unleaded. Since its 102 though maybe I can get the PCM timing tuned also if that’ll help. Thank you for that hypertech tool. Ill google that and see what my options are. Also with the fuel im running I could look into increase rpms to 6200rpm getting tuned and timing right but it’ll make no power at that level slowing me down?! I dont want to push my limits to where its not necessary.

Now that I told my cars mods, I see you have a 383. How much you putting down to the wheels? My sights are on a motor build soon. Was hoping for a stroked procharged set-up in the long run but will gradually modify my car piece by piece for now.

GermanLSX

Only water? Are you running Electric or stock pump? If stock then not a good idea if yours is a daily driver, but you will be rusting out your water pump and be replacing it sooner then later. I actually ran water for a little bit and noticed no difference in temperature on a stock radiator. I drained out the water and put straight coolant/antifreeze in. I should be getting my new Water pump tomorrow and I sure will be running no water at all. Especially on a gear driven pump. If I had an electric then running pure water is fine from what I hear.

During the summers here in Germany the summers get pretty hot like lately its been in the 80’s and 90’s these past few months and driving to work in the hot summer days at 3000-4300rpms 45 mins daily [before the crack & leaking WP] she ran consistently just under the 1/4 mark. With the crack & leaking WP she got a little over the halfway mark [Which I think is 220 halfway mark so about 230] but then would cool off the faster I went. Only cooled down just below the halfway mark. Thank god for that air dam. I dont see any speed bumps from where I drive and park but would an aluminum air dam make sense? lol i know stupid question but with the air speed the plastic air dam bends getting less air flow to radiator. Oh well lol just curious. No need to stress it anyways. Got a new all aluminum radiator coming in to make it up.

With the new radiator, water pump, new 160 thermostat, and tuned fans im hoping she will stay at 170-80 no matter the rpm and stop light [lack of air flow].