weird knocking sound...
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Teching In
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So I got home late from work again so couldn't take the intake off but I need to bounce something off you guys.... Would a bad lifter still be able pump oil up the pushrod? As you can see from the video, I get a pretty good squirt of oil from there. Also, could I take off the rockers and pushrods from the suspected cylinder and start the engine to see if the noise is still there or if it changed at all?
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From: Las Vegas
Since your gonna pull the intk this is kinda mute but i'll try from memory (even without a book). The hyd lifter has 2 springs inside, one stiff one to push the piston up and the other to move the check ball/vlv shut and hold press inside the internal reservoir.
So we can only imagine what really happens but my guess is if the large spring breaks or flattens the piston won't pump up any oil and if the rocker/p-rod continues to be adj it will turn solid and hold the vlv open- no oil pumped up.
Other case the weaker small spring fails/flattens and oil is forced back into the galley - again just an assumption.
You do have several other tiny parts but other than the piston they aren't very active inside the lifter - so of course if the piston busts or seizes no oil will flow.
Hope this helps ya SQUEEG and sorry if i attracted u some flak here, just need to get the word out and maybe save some guys engine he has put a fortune in,
cardo
So we can only imagine what really happens but my guess is if the large spring breaks or flattens the piston won't pump up any oil and if the rocker/p-rod continues to be adj it will turn solid and hold the vlv open- no oil pumped up.
Other case the weaker small spring fails/flattens and oil is forced back into the galley - again just an assumption.
You do have several other tiny parts but other than the piston they aren't very active inside the lifter - so of course if the piston busts or seizes no oil will flow.
Hope this helps ya SQUEEG and sorry if i attracted u some flak here, just need to get the word out and maybe save some guys engine he has put a fortune in,
cardo
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From: Las Vegas
Thats funny man, someone F's up his saturn and now im accused i can't read - he needs to get on the wagon and some good therapy too. And my quoting comp cams is an "absolute lie"? Dang get help soon. Well hes right 'bout one thing - i don't have any Saturn experience thank god. And harassing forum members to adj lifters the error likely way can be a horrible thing. Once a lobe is wiped and metal gets into the bearings who gets the bill? The owner that was harassed into listening for zero lash.
And i have had that experience of rolling in new bearings also. So like i can't help others???
cardo
And i have had that experience of rolling in new bearings also. So like i can't help others???
cardo
Last edited by cardo0; Aug 20, 2013 at 11:20 PM. Reason: spelling error
Thread Starter
Teching In
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Well, finally took my intake off and everything seems to be ok .....took out a couple lifters and they look fine. I did take some pics tho and am wondering if the pushrod being so far in the lifters is normal, it just seemed odd to me. And I decided to look in the intake runners and saw something unexpected, there seems to be puddles of fuel on too of the valves.... 
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. . . Banned
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From: Las Vegas
I think thats a bad lifter. But is that the lifter that was making noise and u kept adjusting??
U need to pull that lifter and look at the cam lobe (and roller surface).
U can google for your self but this is from car craft mag: We've measured normal lifter travel in a stock hydraulic roller lifter at roughly 0.120 inch, and Comp Cams' Billy Godbold says he's seen cheap lifters with as much as 0.180 inch. That means 1-1/2 turns (on a 0.120-inch depth) places the lifter piston roughly halfway in terms of piston travel within a typical hydraulic roller lifter.
So that lifter looks more than 0.180" deep but pix can lie. And fuel puddled up behind the vlvs like the injectors are leaking by. I think by '95 the injectors fired sequentially rather than batch but not sure and not gonna look it up. Do u have engine run-on? Dieseling at all?
cardo
U need to pull that lifter and look at the cam lobe (and roller surface).
U can google for your self but this is from car craft mag: We've measured normal lifter travel in a stock hydraulic roller lifter at roughly 0.120 inch, and Comp Cams' Billy Godbold says he's seen cheap lifters with as much as 0.180 inch. That means 1-1/2 turns (on a 0.120-inch depth) places the lifter piston roughly halfway in terms of piston travel within a typical hydraulic roller lifter.
So that lifter looks more than 0.180" deep but pix can lie. And fuel puddled up behind the vlvs like the injectors are leaking by. I think by '95 the injectors fired sequentially rather than batch but not sure and not gonna look it up. Do u have engine run-on? Dieseling at all?
cardo
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Engine is not dieseling at all. Just to throw this in, before I took my intake off I took the rockers/pushrods out of the suspected cylinder and started the engine. The knock was still there but had a different note to it. The sound is def. coming from the pass side I'll take all the lifters out tonight and check them out. Makes me think it almost has to be valvetrain related since it's very obvious it's coming from the top on bank 2.
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Teching In
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so........... i took the rest of the lifters on that bank out and visually inspected them. they all look very good the only thing I noticed was one lifter had rough looking spot going all around the roller but you cant feel it with a finger nail. Could a rod bearing knock from that bank be causing this? I would think a rod knock you would hear towards the bottom/center of the block. I going to take my oil pan off in a bit and take a peek at the rod bearings, is it possible to replace only rod bearings with the engine still in car?
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Thats a lot more work SQUEEG. I believe u have to pull the engine to get the pan off. Did u look at the cam lobes? In your first post u said the noise goes away while adj the rocker - don't believe a rod can do that.
If your cam lobes look good then i would say u got lucky and replace the lifters. Adj from cold engine will require to use the finger the p-rod method and see what results.
Just my opinion is to replace the lifters and try again before an engine pull.
Good luck on what u choose,
cardo
If your cam lobes look good then i would say u got lucky and replace the lifters. Adj from cold engine will require to use the finger the p-rod method and see what results.
Just my opinion is to replace the lifters and try again before an engine pull.
Good luck on what u choose,
cardo
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no I didnt look at the cam lobes but ill do that right now...I did feel them with my middle finger and didn't feel any bad spots but ill try to get a look at them although I doubt I'll be able to fit my head in there to see the back ones lol but I'll try.
EDIT: should I buy all the lifters? parts store priced them at $265 but I think I paid around $120 for ls7 lifters at the dealer I'll have to wait til tomorrow to call the dealer
EDIT: should I buy all the lifters? parts store priced them at $265 but I think I paid around $120 for ls7 lifters at the dealer I'll have to wait til tomorrow to call the dealer
