LT1 + L99 questions
12-13-2013, 08:19 AM
#1
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LT1 + L99 questions Looking to make a new age DZ 302. I have heard of it being done and having success but not sure on logistics. Will be daily driven. Backed by a R150 in a Toyota pickup. Want to keep fuel injection but not sure if the dizzy can go past 7k rpms. Plan was to use the LT1 block for the larger bore and the l99 crank and rods with arp rod bolts and arp bolts all the way through the motor. Any suggestions? Or links to builds that have been done would be appreciated. Not looking for massive HP. But I have heard that these motors scream (302 based) on a budget. Hell back in late 60's and early 70's with minor valve train work they revved out to 7.5k everyday. Any head or intake suggestions? Want to throw a 100-150 shot and depending on what pistons I might up the compression if I decide to go aftermarket.
12-13-2013, 08:48 AM
#3
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Anyone that I have ever seen post of going the 302 route was disappointed in the power vs. the normal 350 LT1. That may not matter to you for your goals and situation.
12-13-2013, 10:42 AM
#4
The reason the 302 was a good thing 40 years ago was metallurgy and manufacturing quality SUCKED compared to today's engine internals and the longer stroke stuff broke when turned too high and the heads were awful compare to todays stuff. If the late 60s are your inspiration don't bother with any of the newer stuff.
Far as rpm limitations the distributor is fine it is the pcm that can't go over 7000ish rpm. Your missunderstanding here says slow down and delay the project.
You can actually build a functional engine with a LT1 block and pistons and L99 crank and rods, deck height ends up about stock. ONLY thing you accomplish is making a **** poor torque number, been done. I gave the guy the L99 rotating assembly he tried with.
Far as intake and heads how about bone stock as cast intake and stock aluminum ported. The fact you even asked about intake shows you haven't even begun to do the appropriate research.
With heads and cam on a refreshed stock shortblock you can pretty reliably knock out near 500fwhp by about a 64-6500rpm peak rev it to 7000rpm on the stock pcm with a stock distributor. This is 500ish SAE not the grossly inflated STD numbers from the 60s I am sure you have your eye on.
People can get 420+rwhp and 380tq from stock shortblock LT1s with heads and cam staying within the LT1 pcm 7000rpm limits and actually keeping the peak down to the 6500rpm mark so you can rev past peak and use the whole top of the curve. Couple of those guys are even spraying those high performing stock shortblocks with 75-175.
The only reason to try the 302 would be to say you did it, but it has been done and those who did it will tell you not to bother.
A LOT of LT1s survive a 150 shot if the tuning and safeties are there, some guys have even gone further. I know of one that was spraying 200+80 on a stock shortblock with mild heads and cam.
Far as rpm limitations the distributor is fine it is the pcm that can't go over 7000ish rpm. Your missunderstanding here says slow down and delay the project.
You can actually build a functional engine with a LT1 block and pistons and L99 crank and rods, deck height ends up about stock. ONLY thing you accomplish is making a **** poor torque number, been done. I gave the guy the L99 rotating assembly he tried with.
Far as intake and heads how about bone stock as cast intake and stock aluminum ported. The fact you even asked about intake shows you haven't even begun to do the appropriate research.
With heads and cam on a refreshed stock shortblock you can pretty reliably knock out near 500fwhp by about a 64-6500rpm peak rev it to 7000rpm on the stock pcm with a stock distributor. This is 500ish SAE not the grossly inflated STD numbers from the 60s I am sure you have your eye on.
People can get 420+rwhp and 380tq from stock shortblock LT1s with heads and cam staying within the LT1 pcm 7000rpm limits and actually keeping the peak down to the 6500rpm mark so you can rev past peak and use the whole top of the curve. Couple of those guys are even spraying those high performing stock shortblocks with 75-175.
The only reason to try the 302 would be to say you did it, but it has been done and those who did it will tell you not to bother.
A LOT of LT1s survive a 150 shot if the tuning and safeties are there, some guys have even gone further. I know of one that was spraying 200+80 on a stock shortblock with mild heads and cam.
12-13-2013, 03:47 PM
#6
Its been done, you can do a 24x setup using an LS1 PCM, but seriously other than the "I did it factor" theres zero reason to need a 302 to get 7500 RPM. quick95LT1 is hitting the traps at 8300 on a 385 LT1. ARP rod bolts in the factory rods will allow you to hit 7000 rpm reliably.
12-14-2013, 07:17 AM
#7
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The reason the 302 was a good thing 40 years ago was metallurgy and manufacturing quality SUCKED compared to today's engine internals and the longer stroke stuff broke when turned too high and the heads were awful compare to todays stuff. If the late 60s are your inspiration don't bother with any of the newer stuff.
Far as rpm limitations the distributor is fine it is the pcm that can't go over 7000ish rpm. Your missunderstanding here says slow down and delay the project.
You can actually build a functional engine with a LT1 block and pistons and L99 crank and rods, deck height ends up about stock. ONLY thing you accomplish is making a **** poor torque number, been done. I gave the guy the L99 rotating assembly he tried with.
Far as intake and heads how about bone stock as cast intake and stock aluminum ported. The fact you even asked about intake shows you haven't even begun to do the appropriate research.
With heads and cam on a refreshed stock shortblock you can pretty reliably knock out near 500fwhp by about a 64-6500rpm peak rev it to 7000rpm on the stock pcm with a stock distributor. This is 500ish SAE not the grossly inflated STD numbers from the 60s I am sure you have your eye on.
People can get 420+rwhp and 380tq from stock shortblock LT1s with heads and cam staying within the LT1 pcm 7000rpm limits and actually keeping the peak down to the 6500rpm mark so you can rev past peak and use the whole top of the curve. Couple of those guys are even spraying those high performing stock shortblocks with 75-175.
The only reason to try the 302 would be to say you did it, but it has been done and those who did it will tell you not to bother.
A LOT of LT1s survive a 150 shot if the tuning and safeties are there, some guys have even gone further. I know of one that was spraying 200+80 on a stock shortblock with mild heads and cam.
Far as rpm limitations the distributor is fine it is the pcm that can't go over 7000ish rpm. Your missunderstanding here says slow down and delay the project.
You can actually build a functional engine with a LT1 block and pistons and L99 crank and rods, deck height ends up about stock. ONLY thing you accomplish is making a **** poor torque number, been done. I gave the guy the L99 rotating assembly he tried with.
Far as intake and heads how about bone stock as cast intake and stock aluminum ported. The fact you even asked about intake shows you haven't even begun to do the appropriate research.
With heads and cam on a refreshed stock shortblock you can pretty reliably knock out near 500fwhp by about a 64-6500rpm peak rev it to 7000rpm on the stock pcm with a stock distributor. This is 500ish SAE not the grossly inflated STD numbers from the 60s I am sure you have your eye on.
People can get 420+rwhp and 380tq from stock shortblock LT1s with heads and cam staying within the LT1 pcm 7000rpm limits and actually keeping the peak down to the 6500rpm mark so you can rev past peak and use the whole top of the curve. Couple of those guys are even spraying those high performing stock shortblocks with 75-175.
The only reason to try the 302 would be to say you did it, but it has been done and those who did it will tell you not to bother.
A LOT of LT1s survive a 150 shot if the tuning and safeties are there, some guys have even gone further. I know of one that was spraying 200+80 on a stock shortblock with mild heads and cam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpKQONcERAs
Its been done, you can do a 24x setup using an LS1 PCM, but seriously other than the "I did it factor" theres zero reason to need a 302 to get 7500 RPM. quick95LT1 is hitting the traps at 8300 on a 385 LT1. ARP rod bolts in the factory rods will allow you to hit 7000 rpm reliably.
Its been done, you can do a 24x setup using an LS1 PCM, but seriously other than the "I did it factor" theres zero reason to need a 302 to get 7500 RPM. quick95LT1 is hitting the traps at 8300 on a 385 LT1. ARP rod bolts in the factory rods will allow you to hit 7000 rpm reliably.
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12-14-2013, 07:38 AM
#8
What could possibly be the purpose of throwing away. 48 cubic inches?
An aversion to torque? LOL
I have raced many small engines over the years, and you have to spin them to the moon to get them to run, and they are still slower than a larger engine. Easily need to spin it to 7500, but why? An equally built 7000 RPM 350" will be faster.
I have run stock rods past 8000 RPM, a LOT. But they do need better bolts. Years ago we had to use stock rods in our SS engines. Not a problem until so many started spinning them up around 9000.
An aversion to torque? LOL
I have raced many small engines over the years, and you have to spin them to the moon to get them to run, and they are still slower than a larger engine. Easily need to spin it to 7500, but why? An equally built 7000 RPM 350" will be faster.
I have run stock rods past 8000 RPM, a LOT. But they do need better bolts. Years ago we had to use stock rods in our SS engines. Not a problem until so many started spinning them up around 9000.
12-14-2013, 11:52 AM
#9
Far as LSx results vs. LT1 results, there are a lot of popular but bad to mediocre vendors out there for both and a lot of people putting cars together poorly even IF they manage to choose good parts.
My advise for now would be to do some mild mods to a stockish LT1 and enjoy it while you learn more about the platform.
My advise for now would be to do some mild mods to a stockish LT1 and enjoy it while you learn more about the platform.
