383 stroker please help
05-07-2014, 10:54 AM
#41
To O/P
I did the same thing after I found out my shop put the same type of crap your builder did into my block and had the same arguments with my builder about compression. The kit came with -16cc forged pistons in it. I actually had to go back through the and re-torque the stock main caps because they were torqued about 15 to 20 ft lbs less then stock LT1 specs. Not sure what gen 1 he torqued them to but it was off. Because bearings were specked to crank the extra torque kept the clearance right.
Went with baby cam and 6000 red line on LE2 heads from Lloyd that I had already ordered thinking I was getting a forged bottom end set up with -5 cc pistons. It broke at 4400 rpm's under 3/4 throttle as soon as tires hooked up on the street surface in second gear with street tires. I was on my way full throttle and it snapped before I got there. Broke behind #8 rod at the rear counter weight. Had less then 3k miles on the engine. never saw a drag strip or sticky tires.
Long story short is fix it now. Spend the money, Wait what ever it takes and no you can not just trust that an "Expert, Professional, Legendary, Historical" builder or machine shop is going to get it right or know what they are doing with an LT1. I spent a grand total of about $5000 trying to make that crap work in the old engine. I have now spent another $2000 getting a stock bottom end together and bolting my LE2 heads on to find out now I have to spend even more now If it can be fixed. Dont know yet.
I lost the crank, lifters, cam, block and rockers due to the 30 seconds it ran after breaking the crank, pushed shavings through the entire oiling system.
The lingering effects now are I just rebuilt a stock bottom end and put a brand new Lloyd Elliot custom ground cam, lifters, push rods, oil pump, with the le2 heads back together and now I have to have one of the heads fixed. It magically started leaking coolant in the #1 cylinder in front of the intake valve. And yes I had both heads checked by the new machine shop and he said they are good to go no leaks, no cracks. For the amount I have spent I could have bought an LS3 and converted everything in the car over to accommodate it making the same to better HP numbers then what I will make once this new setup is finished. Same amount of headache but still in the same ball park lol.
05-09-2014, 12:02 PM
#46
TECH Regular
I really don't understand why the average "machinist with 30 years experience" seems to know less about Gen II LTx motors than my mother does.
It's not as if these motors haven't been around for well over 20 years now with hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of them on the road.
OP, if this is your daily transportation and you need it back on the road, just put it back together, tune it and drive it. With the remaining budget you have, that's about all you can do. It won't be much if any faster than stock, but I guess it will get you to work on Monday morning.
If you have other forms of transportation and you really want to achieve those power and reliability goals and can wait some time to save some more cash, then you need to take the hard parts you have so far, find another machinist who isn't stuck in the 1970s, follow the advice of some of the guys here, and see what you can salvage.
Many of the guys on here including myself are 10+ year veterans of the LT1/LT4 game and have built, raced and tuned multiple setups. They aren't going to steer you wrong. We may come across as a bit crass sometimes, but that's only because we see threads like this all the time where some "expert" know-nothing machinist has fucked up someone's LTx build.
It's not as if these motors haven't been around for well over 20 years now with hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of them on the road.
OP, if this is your daily transportation and you need it back on the road, just put it back together, tune it and drive it. With the remaining budget you have, that's about all you can do. It won't be much if any faster than stock, but I guess it will get you to work on Monday morning.
If you have other forms of transportation and you really want to achieve those power and reliability goals and can wait some time to save some more cash, then you need to take the hard parts you have so far, find another machinist who isn't stuck in the 1970s, follow the advice of some of the guys here, and see what you can salvage.
Many of the guys on here including myself are 10+ year veterans of the LT1/LT4 game and have built, raced and tuned multiple setups. They aren't going to steer you wrong. We may come across as a bit crass sometimes, but that's only because we see threads like this all the time where some "expert" know-nothing machinist has fucked up someone's LTx build.
Last edited by HellTeeOne; 05-09-2014 at 12:10 PM.
05-09-2014, 12:14 PM
#47
TECH Fanatic
05-09-2014, 05:00 PM
#48
TECH Addict
This is ridiculous! How does Eagle handle this? Are they covering the damages? sounds like all you broken Eagle Cast Crank guys need to get together with some lawyers and at a minimum get them to re-coupe the costs and stop selling them. Seriously, this is entirely too common and unacceptable. The only reason they still sell is because of ignorant people, customers and professionals a like.
05-09-2014, 11:20 PM
#49
Why is anyone still trying to help the OP? He isn't reading the responses or taking any advice. He can't even be bothered to find out what kind of crank it has in the block, even though he has been asked about 30 times.
The car will on Craigslist in a month. The ad will read, "95 Z28 with brand-new 383 engine with all the best parts. Needs a little work. Won't start. $10,000 or best offer."
**** him.
The car will on Craigslist in a month. The ad will read, "95 Z28 with brand-new 383 engine with all the best parts. Needs a little work. Won't start. $10,000 or best offer."
**** him.
Last edited by 94FBIRD; 05-09-2014 at 11:21 PM. Reason: add stuff
05-10-2014, 07:01 AM
#51
You would have been MUCH better off with a head/cam 355. Or even a cam only/bolt on 355.
Just because a machinist has "30 years experience" means ****. He may have been building lawnmower engines for 30 years.
It TRULY amazes me, with all the info the internet can provide that people flush money without using Google first. It's YOUR money, YOU tell the machinist what YOU want, not the other way around.
You will pay stupid tax on this one, lesson learned.
Just because a machinist has "30 years experience" means ****. He may have been building lawnmower engines for 30 years.
It TRULY amazes me, with all the info the internet can provide that people flush money without using Google first. It's YOUR money, YOU tell the machinist what YOU want, not the other way around.
You will pay stupid tax on this one, lesson learned.
05-10-2014, 05:42 PM
#52
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First off I would like to thank the people who have been nice and try to help me out. I run my own pizzeria so I have looked at the forums but I haven't had the time to respond. This car was a huge lesson learned. Now I know what to look for. The car I am just leaving it at 383 stroker .040 over with a 400 crank 10:5 compression with 1.6 cam .280/.276. My wife loved the car and doesn't give a **** about hp so I am saving up to make what I want and will do more research this time.
05-10-2014, 08:33 PM
#55
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Well I am at a loss on what to do now. I spent 2900 and I have about 1500 left. I moved to phoenix recently so I don't know anyone here. I went to this machinist because my neighbor recommended him.
05-10-2014, 09:17 PM
#56
Sell the shortblock and recoup. Take the proceeds and the remainder of what you have now, get ported stock heads, a big cam, and assemble on a stock shortblock with low miles (verify the mileage, don't go on someone's word). You'll have more power and it will last longer.
05-11-2014, 06:09 AM
#57
You still need to talk to your machinist and find out if it is an Eagle cast crank or a Scat cast crank. If it is a Scat cast crank you can run it, just don't put a really good set of heads and cam on it. It wouldnt really matter though because that low compression ratio wouldnt Make power anyways. If it is an EAGLE cast crank, you need to pull it apart and part it out and get a stock shortblock and take your losses.
If your machinist is a good talker and convinces you to listen to experience over a bunch of idiots on the Internet, tell him to put his money where his mouth is and put that hotcam 10:1 compression stock headed 383 on the dyno. If it breaks 420 flywheel hp, you pay for it, if it doesn't he refunds your money. It won't make 420 flywheel hp. If you pay for it, make sure you get a 10,000 mile warranty. For comparison, ramair95TA's 383 with 12.7:1 cr, AI stock ported heads and a custom cam through a 9" and a 4l60e auto made 455 rear wheel hp. You are going to be about 150-200 shy of that.
If your machinist is a good talker and convinces you to listen to experience over a bunch of idiots on the Internet, tell him to put his money where his mouth is and put that hotcam 10:1 compression stock headed 383 on the dyno. If it breaks 420 flywheel hp, you pay for it, if it doesn't he refunds your money. It won't make 420 flywheel hp. If you pay for it, make sure you get a 10,000 mile warranty. For comparison, ramair95TA's 383 with 12.7:1 cr, AI stock ported heads and a custom cam through a 9" and a 4l60e auto made 455 rear wheel hp. You are going to be about 150-200 shy of that.
Last edited by bufmatmuslepants; 05-11-2014 at 06:30 AM.
05-11-2014, 09:09 AM
#58
Ditch the crank if its a eagle or scat cast crank and reuse the block and get a factory stock crank for now. If it's using stock rods or stock length rods like a an eagle es 5.7 length then its actually not a bad rod. Eagle makes some good parts its just that the cast crank for our 1 piece rear main seal absolutely sucks and will break at some point. Other gen 1 eagle cast cranks run 400+ out the crank no problem for years.
If you can find a running junk yard long block for 500 bucks buy it and use it until you can build what you want. hell keep an eye out for me I may end up selling this bottom end that was just rebuilt if the head I have cant be repaired lol.
check local junk yards out there, Yards out west seem to have some bargains from time to time.
Hate to see your problems, I went through it too and spent the last 9 months saving and planning to get the car back to life and now it had to come apart again. I'm heart broken and devastated once again. I also have to have back surgery this week and the car will continue to sit once again. I may never be able to work on it again. Things happen and some times deals will come your way. you never know. I wont know for a month or two if this is the end of me wrenching or not. Just don't give up on it if you really want it.
If you can find a running junk yard long block for 500 bucks buy it and use it until you can build what you want. hell keep an eye out for me I may end up selling this bottom end that was just rebuilt if the head I have cant be repaired lol.
check local junk yards out there, Yards out west seem to have some bargains from time to time.
Hate to see your problems, I went through it too and spent the last 9 months saving and planning to get the car back to life and now it had to come apart again. I'm heart broken and devastated once again. I also have to have back surgery this week and the car will continue to sit once again. I may never be able to work on it again. Things happen and some times deals will come your way. you never know. I wont know for a month or two if this is the end of me wrenching or not. Just don't give up on it if you really want it.
05-11-2014, 10:09 AM
#59
TECH Addict
FIND OUT WHAT CRANK IS IN THE BLOCK FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it is a GM cast 400 crank, clarify how he accomplished this with the 2 piece seal and different main sizes...
Call your machinist and demand answers to the questions we provided you. Hell, give me his number and your info and I will do it. (I live in Tucson).
We need numbers, part numbers will work, pistons (dished??), head gaskets used? I can tell you your static compression ratio off that info. Dropping from 10.4:1 to 9:1 is big on a bored and stroked LT1. Boring and stroking typically increases CR without big dished pistons (bad for quench), or bigger head combustion chamber (you're stock right?).
Then we can actually help you. Your build isn't a total wash yet. Even if it is an Eagle cast crank, you can take it out and get a refund. Then order a forged one.
Your budget is out the window. $4500 for a stroker LT1 is not possible without a bunch of free stuff from friends, family, or previous builds you have laying around. I paid that for my 355.
You still need a fuel pump with wiring, fuel injectors, tune (I can help you here), headers, cat back, oil, etc, etc, etc. I spent $300+ on just oil, refrigerant, trans fluid, filters, power steering fluid, RTV and other adhesives, assembly fluid, break in fluid, etc.
If you need this car running for the time being, buy a used LT1 off Craigslist for $600 (they are out there), until you get this build done right.
05-12-2014, 04:53 PM
#60
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Ok guys update talked to the machinst.
Scat crank
scat rods
kb flat top pistons
stock Le1 heads
11.2 compression
He has a ascent so I thought he said 10 but he told me the motor will be pushing 11.2 compression.
Scat crank
scat rods
kb flat top pistons
stock Le1 heads
11.2 compression
He has a ascent so I thought he said 10 but he told me the motor will be pushing 11.2 compression.