383 stroker please help
05-21-2014, 09:54 PM
#82
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I wouldn't blame 95 21 if he never posted on here again, a guy just looking for some honest advice, he never said he was Guinness and some of you guess are calling him everything in the book. I just don't understand. We can all help him out without rubbing all his mistakes in his face.
Also if the heads are all done, you can get some decent porting done for 300. It's no race car.
Also if the heads are all done, you can get some decent porting done for 300. It's no race car.
05-22-2014, 01:46 AM
#83
^^^ I'd rather put $300 towards some real bolt on mods rather than a half assed port job. Material removed from the wrong area will increase volume and possibly hurt your power at different revs.
Lloyd can give you a price for just runner work if the heads are already freshened.
Lloyd can give you a price for just runner work if the heads are already freshened.
05-22-2014, 05:50 AM
#84
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I wouldn't blame 95 21 if he never posted on here again, a guy just looking for some honest advice, he never said he was Guinness and some of you guess are calling him everything in the book. I just don't understand. We can all help him out without rubbing all his mistakes in his face.
Also if the heads are all done, you can get some decent porting done for 300. It's no race car.
Also if the heads are all done, you can get some decent porting done for 300. It's no race car.
05-22-2014, 12:13 PM
#85
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I am glad that these mistakes happened because when I go to build my car I know what to look for. I bought this z28 because the guy I bought it from said he just put a new motor in and has paper work. Well long story short I trusted him and he never gave me any papers.
As far as build goes I just moved to phoenix a year ago so I don't know anyone. My neighbor told me he has a very good machinst that can build my motor. So I trusted him took it to him told him I wanted a 383 to pump around 375-400 horse. He said no problem. I am not a engine builder so I paid someone to do it for me. Lesson learned. Thank You all for your help and comments I have looked at them all even if I didn't respond.
As far as build goes I just moved to phoenix a year ago so I don't know anyone. My neighbor told me he has a very good machinst that can build my motor. So I trusted him took it to him told him I wanted a 383 to pump around 375-400 horse. He said no problem. I am not a engine builder so I paid someone to do it for me. Lesson learned. Thank You all for your help and comments I have looked at them all even if I didn't respond.
05-22-2014, 12:22 PM
#86
Live and learn. We've all been burned in one way or another. Nobody here is infallible.
Consult the forums moving forward because there are a lot of people who will take your money and fill your ears with bullshit.
Consult the forums moving forward because there are a lot of people who will take your money and fill your ears with bullshit.
Last edited by Catmaigne; 05-22-2014 at 01:08 PM.
05-22-2014, 02:28 PM
#87
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I was going to stay out of this thread but since i read my name all over it i think u a-holes asked for it. Thx for the invitation.
And it shows how many pin heads here are fast to accuse when after all it had a SCAT crank anyways and now it looks like a forged SCAT crank. So the running mouths here have nothing to show they are any smarter than the OPs first machinist. All talk.
Good to see the OP (95 21) is taking an interest into making things right. Like others have said those stock heads need to come off if only to nail your compression ratio. OP u need to verify your c.r.. But even without porting u want a quality 3 to 5 angle vlv job with good vlv springs. The old HC vlv springs are inadequate for the heavier LT1 solid vlvs. And it looks like someone kept the roller rockers that come with the HC kit as the stock rocker are still there and are a road bump for the power levels the OP is going with a 11.2:1 383. With 11.2:1 verified u will want to look into maybe one of the larger GM cams like the 846 or the 847. They're good quality cams and fairly cheap and will get the job done for u lowering your dynamic compression. But u will want some roller rockers with those cams also. Check your vlv retainer to guide boss with PC seal clearance for your cam lift and rocker ratio.
95 21 u handled the "criticism" well - better than i can.
Good luck and please post your results,
cardo
And it shows how many pin heads here are fast to accuse when after all it had a SCAT crank anyways and now it looks like a forged SCAT crank. So the running mouths here have nothing to show they are any smarter than the OPs first machinist. All talk.
Good to see the OP (95 21) is taking an interest into making things right. Like others have said those stock heads need to come off if only to nail your compression ratio. OP u need to verify your c.r.. But even without porting u want a quality 3 to 5 angle vlv job with good vlv springs. The old HC vlv springs are inadequate for the heavier LT1 solid vlvs. And it looks like someone kept the roller rockers that come with the HC kit as the stock rocker are still there and are a road bump for the power levels the OP is going with a 11.2:1 383. With 11.2:1 verified u will want to look into maybe one of the larger GM cams like the 846 or the 847. They're good quality cams and fairly cheap and will get the job done for u lowering your dynamic compression. But u will want some roller rockers with those cams also. Check your vlv retainer to guide boss with PC seal clearance for your cam lift and rocker ratio.
95 21 u handled the "criticism" well - better than i can.
Good luck and please post your results,
cardo
05-22-2014, 04:14 PM
#88
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I was going to stay out of this thread but since i read my name all over it i think u a-holes asked for it. Thx for the invitation.
And it shows how many pin heads here are fast to accuse when after all it had a SCAT crank anyways and now it looks like a forged SCAT crank. So the running mouths here have nothing to show they are any smarter than the OPs first machinist. All talk.
Good to see the OP (95 21) is taking an interest into making things right. Like others have said those stock heads need to come off if only to nail your compression ratio. OP u need to verify your c.r.. But even without porting u want a quality 3 to 5 angle vlv job with good vlv springs. The old HC vlv springs are inadequate for the heavier LT1 solid vlvs. And it looks like someone kept the roller rockers that come with the HC kit as the stock rocker are still there and are a road bump for the power levels the OP is going with a 11.2:1 383. With 11.2:1 verified u will want to look into maybe one of the larger GM cams like the 846 or the 847. They're good quality cams and fairly cheap and will get the job done for u lowering your dynamic compression. But u will want some roller rockers with those cams also. Check your vlv retainer to guide boss with PC seal clearance for your cam lift and rocker ratio.
95 21 u handled the "criticism" well - better than i can.
Good luck and please post your results,
cardo
And it shows how many pin heads here are fast to accuse when after all it had a SCAT crank anyways and now it looks like a forged SCAT crank. So the running mouths here have nothing to show they are any smarter than the OPs first machinist. All talk.
Good to see the OP (95 21) is taking an interest into making things right. Like others have said those stock heads need to come off if only to nail your compression ratio. OP u need to verify your c.r.. But even without porting u want a quality 3 to 5 angle vlv job with good vlv springs. The old HC vlv springs are inadequate for the heavier LT1 solid vlvs. And it looks like someone kept the roller rockers that come with the HC kit as the stock rocker are still there and are a road bump for the power levels the OP is going with a 11.2:1 383. With 11.2:1 verified u will want to look into maybe one of the larger GM cams like the 846 or the 847. They're good quality cams and fairly cheap and will get the job done for u lowering your dynamic compression. But u will want some roller rockers with those cams also. Check your vlv retainer to guide boss with PC seal clearance for your cam lift and rocker ratio.
95 21 u handled the "criticism" well - better than i can.
Good luck and please post your results,
cardo
The crank was asked to ensure he was having a quality rotating assembly put together (which probably never would've come up if the specs produced weren't so far wrong). An Eagle cast crank is a waste of time and money and they were trying to help him avoid that if possible. Fortunately that wasn't the case, but to get the information from the OP was hard to come by.
The OP asked for advise on cam selection so we asked for his build specs, the specs that followed were very very bad (and turned out to be wrong thank god). Now that we have good info regarding his engine build we can help him select a good cam for his build. Like the ones you mentioned.
Unfortunately I don't think it's likely for him to complete his build within his budget, but I've seen crazier things happen; anything is possible huh?
To the OP, the Hotcam on this engine in Phoenix heat on 91 octane will not run very strong after it's tuned to get ride of spark knock. Definitely put something bigger in there (like what Cardo0 recommended) now while it's easier. Heads can be done later, although they'll definitely hold you back now.
I know budget is a problem and you already have the Hotcam kit installed, but it's not just power you're leaving on the table. It's longevity and reliability too. You spent a lot of money on your 383 short block, don't hurt it with a cheap cam package.
05-22-2014, 04:31 PM
#89
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I also feel really stupid when you guys ask me questions I don't know how to answer them. I am not a mechanic or a machinist. I had 3 grand to spend so I thought I took it to someone who knows and thought 3 grand was enough to get me 375-400 hp stock is 285-300. I have had a hard time asking my machinst because I feel stupid asking questions what I have no clue about...plus some people telling me put this do this all I'm hearing is $$$$$ plus my wife is kicking my *** should of left it stock blah blah spending too much money....So now I bought my cam kit the hot cam kit was 587 bucks and that's cheap? What do I do with my cam now?
Plus I'm hearing people are telling me my rear end won't hold that's another 2 grand....
Plus I'm hearing people are telling me my rear end won't hold that's another 2 grand....
05-22-2014, 05:14 PM
#90
Stock without boltons is 285-300 boltons alone can take the stock motor to probably 360fwhp.
Heads and cam on a stock shortblock commonly makes say 375-425rwhp.
If a machinist suggested a 383 with stock unported heads he is incompetent.
If a machinist suggested the need for a 383 to reach 400fwhp or even 400rwhp he at best is taking advantage.
With a weak motor if you drive sensibly the axle will be fine.
I will still stick with what I said much earlier, part out this trainwreck and use the money to put a mildly modded stock motor in. No worries about the incompetent machinist and hopefully it fully funds the stockish setup pleasing the wife.
Heads and cam on a stock shortblock commonly makes say 375-425rwhp.
If a machinist suggested a 383 with stock unported heads he is incompetent.
If a machinist suggested the need for a 383 to reach 400fwhp or even 400rwhp he at best is taking advantage.
With a weak motor if you drive sensibly the axle will be fine.
I will still stick with what I said much earlier, part out this trainwreck and use the money to put a mildly modded stock motor in. No worries about the incompetent machinist and hopefully it fully funds the stockish setup pleasing the wife.
05-22-2014, 06:45 PM
#91
Card0 it's a cast Scat crank.
OP I understand your plight, you wanted something, knew nothing about it, found a guy who said he could do it for the amount of money you had, and you didn't ask questions. Reminds me of when I bought my first mattress in college, I walked into a random mattress store, said "I have $400 I need a comfy mattress" and they guy sold me a $250 mattress for my $400 because I didn't do any research. Point being, before you ever drop cash, do some research so you don't get swindled by a fast talking salesman.
OP I understand your plight, you wanted something, knew nothing about it, found a guy who said he could do it for the amount of money you had, and you didn't ask questions. Reminds me of when I bought my first mattress in college, I walked into a random mattress store, said "I have $400 I need a comfy mattress" and they guy sold me a $250 mattress for my $400 because I didn't do any research. Point being, before you ever drop cash, do some research so you don't get swindled by a fast talking salesman.
05-22-2014, 06:51 PM
#92
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Ok i mixed up the engine photos from post #25. But the roller rockers are there in post #76 - good for u 95/21.
Well it sounds like u are in information overload 95/21. U can slow down and sort things out as it looks like all the machine work and assembly are done with.
U need to work with your "new" machinist to get the dynamic compression ratio down to avoid detonation. Head porting and stronger rear ends can be fixed later. Just dont dump the clutch and your rear end should stay together. Reason i say work with your machinist as he may just pop off 1 head for you to measure the volume above the piston on 1 cyl and the head chamber volume. This will verify your static compression. Any knowledgeable machinist should know what your asking for. Also one way to check for vlv seal with the head off is to pour a liquid (like gas) into the runner and see if any leaks through. Your vlv job maybe good as is.
But if those are HC vlv springs which i think they are u will have vlv float at high RPM. Your choice to do something with them - u could always change them later while heads are in the car. And u can always change heads while block is in the car also - much easier than the cam. And u may get $150 for your once installed but never used HC. The larger cams are 'bout $300 so maybe a $200 upgrade. I just hate to see your engine become an experiment for the HC at 11.2 c.r.. It will run until the chambers get hot enough to cause pre-ignition. Or maybe your at an altitude at Phoenix will help some - wont know unless u try it. Something else u can try is a dynamic c.r. calculator for your hot cam and any other cam. Find one with google u feel comfortable using and see what the HC looks like in your engine - sorry more information overload.
So let me say that if your c.r. is really 11.2 u could need either a longer duration cam or larger chamber heads - the cam being the cheaper route. As for a tune my PCM4less mail order tune was <$200 including shipping and tax.
Hope this helps u more than it confuses u,
card0
Well it sounds like u are in information overload 95/21. U can slow down and sort things out as it looks like all the machine work and assembly are done with.
U need to work with your "new" machinist to get the dynamic compression ratio down to avoid detonation. Head porting and stronger rear ends can be fixed later. Just dont dump the clutch and your rear end should stay together. Reason i say work with your machinist as he may just pop off 1 head for you to measure the volume above the piston on 1 cyl and the head chamber volume. This will verify your static compression. Any knowledgeable machinist should know what your asking for. Also one way to check for vlv seal with the head off is to pour a liquid (like gas) into the runner and see if any leaks through. Your vlv job maybe good as is.
But if those are HC vlv springs which i think they are u will have vlv float at high RPM. Your choice to do something with them - u could always change them later while heads are in the car. And u can always change heads while block is in the car also - much easier than the cam. And u may get $150 for your once installed but never used HC. The larger cams are 'bout $300 so maybe a $200 upgrade. I just hate to see your engine become an experiment for the HC at 11.2 c.r.. It will run until the chambers get hot enough to cause pre-ignition. Or maybe your at an altitude at Phoenix will help some - wont know unless u try it. Something else u can try is a dynamic c.r. calculator for your hot cam and any other cam. Find one with google u feel comfortable using and see what the HC looks like in your engine - sorry more information overload.
So let me say that if your c.r. is really 11.2 u could need either a longer duration cam or larger chamber heads - the cam being the cheaper route. As for a tune my PCM4less mail order tune was <$200 including shipping and tax.
Hope this helps u more than it confuses u,
card0
05-22-2014, 07:07 PM
#93
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No, no, no your wrong again buttbrain. Your looking at his link in post #67 which cant be correct as it is 2 piece RMS crank. So he posted his latest update in post #74 which is a forged crank and pistons too. The bad news is the c.r. 11.8 for 58cc heads.
Again your spreading your brain dead accusations.
cardo
Again your spreading your brain dead accusations.
cardo
05-23-2014, 03:02 AM
#94
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I also feel really stupid when you guys ask me questions I don't know how to answer them. I am not a mechanic or a machinist. I had 3 grand to spend so I thought I took it to someone who knows and thought 3 grand was enough to get me 375-400 hp stock is 285-300. I have had a hard time asking my machinst because I feel stupid asking questions what I have no clue about...plus some people telling me put this do this all I'm hearing is $$$$$ plus my wife is kicking my *** should of left it stock blah blah spending too much money....So now I bought my cam kit the hot cam kit was 587 bucks and that's cheap? What do I do with my cam now?
Plus I'm hearing people are telling me my rear end won't hold that's another 2 grand....
Plus I'm hearing people are telling me my rear end won't hold that's another 2 grand....
Like cardio0 said, put a bigger cam in. Sell the hot cam to offset the bigger cam. Replace the valve springs too. You can get the ~$100 set from Howard's cams, these won't last more than 10k miles max. But they will work until you get your heads done up properly. You will need injectors and a fuel pump too.
With this set up you should be pushing good power, lots of torque. But it won't be near its potential until the heads and supporting bolt ons are done.
Everything else can be done later. Heads, bolt ons, etc are all in car replaceable. Check craigslist for deals too.
As for the rear end. Yeah they suck. I'm pushing 400+rwhp through my stock unit and refuse to put sticky tires on. I'm a manual on Tucson roads (far worse than the roads in Phoenix) I'm counting the days. But I've decided to keep it. I will be doing the girdle and supports bars from TWS. It'll never see slicks, do I feel comfortable with that set up for me and my 2 times a year drag days.
05-23-2014, 05:27 AM
#95
OP, is the link you posted in post #74 the actual kit that was put in your engine?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/1-40760BI/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710611096&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=18087 22425&cadevice=m&gclid=COOI8eD7tb4CFQGTfgodJEgAZA
If so,
A. That's a good kit
B. if the kit cost $2000, and you paid $2700 total for this engine, did he do the machine work for free and just charge $500 to assemble it and the $200 for a hotcam? Machine work normally costs $1000 plus assembly is normally $500, which is why I think he probably used the $1200 cast scat rotating assembly.
If that is the actual kit installed in your engine, with a forged scat crank, and you got the whole motor built for $2700 including the $2000 rotating assembly, all block work, and assembling of the engine, then you got one HELL of a deal. But I really doubt your machinist works for free, so it's more likely he only paid $1000-1200 for the rotating assembly, which is the cast version.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/1-40760BI/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710611096&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=18087 22425&cadevice=m&gclid=COOI8eD7tb4CFQGTfgodJEgAZA
If so,
A. That's a good kit
B. if the kit cost $2000, and you paid $2700 total for this engine, did he do the machine work for free and just charge $500 to assemble it and the $200 for a hotcam? Machine work normally costs $1000 plus assembly is normally $500, which is why I think he probably used the $1200 cast scat rotating assembly.
If that is the actual kit installed in your engine, with a forged scat crank, and you got the whole motor built for $2700 including the $2000 rotating assembly, all block work, and assembling of the engine, then you got one HELL of a deal. But I really doubt your machinist works for free, so it's more likely he only paid $1000-1200 for the rotating assembly, which is the cast version.
05-23-2014, 10:04 PM
#96
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Update guys. Went to the new machinst today. Here is what he told me.
383 stroker
Scat forged crank
kb flat top pistons 11.8 compression.
Stock lt1 heads
run a CC 503 cam
He told me I have to run race fuel with that compression because the lt1 has combustion problems and pump gas won't handle that high of compression ratio. What is everyone opinion on that?
383 stroker
Scat forged crank
kb flat top pistons 11.8 compression.
Stock lt1 heads
run a CC 503 cam
He told me I have to run race fuel with that compression because the lt1 has combustion problems and pump gas won't handle that high of compression ratio. What is everyone opinion on that?
05-23-2014, 10:26 PM
#97
11.8 is too high for pump gas that is for sure. Maybe you could convert to E85? Otherwise I would consider starting again from scratch. I haven't read through the entire thread but if your going to build a 383 I would def get better heads than stock. Unless your wanting to pull tree out of the ground. I recommend AFR 195 cc. Throw it on the plastic and forget about it.
Edit-AFR 195's have some 75 cc combustion chamber that will help you bring down your static compression some. Also look at gasket thicknesses. What REALLY might be a problem is your DCR (dynamic compression ratio) have you calculated that yet?
Edit-AFR 195's have some 75 cc combustion chamber that will help you bring down your static compression some. Also look at gasket thicknesses. What REALLY might be a problem is your DCR (dynamic compression ratio) have you calculated that yet?
05-23-2014, 10:37 PM
#98
I looked up some KB flat top pistons (for a 383 stroker) and this was the CR that was shown for this piston:
That means to get the compression he said you would get your stock heads would have to have a 58 cc combustion chamber. This doesn't sound right. What are the casting numbers of your heads?
That means to get the compression he said you would get your stock heads would have to have a 58 cc combustion chamber. This doesn't sound right. What are the casting numbers of your heads?
05-23-2014, 10:46 PM
#99
