AdsoYo's 24x summary
AdsoYo's 24x summary This isn’t a step-by-step install (although I linked one at the bottom), just my experience converting to a functioning 24x setup. While I was researching I found a huge amount of 24x resources on CamaroZ28.com and LS1Tech.com. The problem was that everything was so spread out and required hours of searching and reading. By telling my experience I hope to consolidate a lot of what I found.
This evening I am finally able to say my car can confidently be street driven and drives at least as well as it did with the opti. I’ve been eyeballing 24x for years but I didn’t start really researching until January. February 17th, I purchased all the parts. Everything came from EFI Connection except the wire harness which I bought from BP Automotive.
PARTS:
The list from EFI includes: 96-97 timing cover, 24x kit with mechanical water pump (includes crank reluctor, crank position sensor, cam reluctor, cam position sensor, cam sensor housing), ignition coil bracket with LS2 coils, 0411 LS1 PCM, PCM bracket. Total for all that was $1,350. All parts looked great and they cleaned up the used parts really well. They also include very detailed and easy to follow install instructions. I probably over-researched the install procedure thinking the included instructions wouldn’t be helpful but they’re really all you need.
The harness from BP was $750 and it looks amazing. The construction is top quality and very impressive. Bill is an outstanding individual to deal with and was extra helpful with some of my troubleshooting. He has tons of experience with 24x.
For the tune I chose PCMforless. I’ve used them before and they did a good job of getting things in the ball park. I emailed them before sending in the PCM just to make sure they would be able to tune for 24x and was assured that they have done a number of 24x PCM’s already. This time however, the experience was not good. Long story short, 4 of my plugs fouled and I had to use a tune from a guy I found on hptuners forums. Also had to use a local shop with hptuners to upload the file. To his credit, Bryan was always polite and helpful via email. This whole PCM ordeal set me back $700.
Total cost of my 24x conversion was $2800. Obviously I wasn’t trying to do anything the cheap way. There are guys who have done this for just the cost of the 24x kit easily.
INSTALL:
If you’ve ever done any work on the front of the engine, I feel like you’ll be okay. There were a few steps that I had some trouble with. One was getting the timing chain off. Mine is an aftermarket single roller and it took a lot of wiggling and hard pulling to get that thing off. I have no idea how I would’ve put it back on without cutting the cam dowel pin.
On that note, cutting the cam dowel pin is a piece of cake with a dremel. I marked the pin flush with the cam reluctor and did my best to cut nice and straight. While cutting, your oil pan will most likely be hanging a little so be sure to stuff some paper towels or something in there so the shavings and metal tip don’t fall in.
Final tip: when installing timing chain, make sure the gears are dot-to-dot. As long as they’re aligned this way, you’re good to go.
EDIT 5/1/2015: While researching 24x one of the things that seemed to be incompatible was the EVAP system. I recently discovered this is not true. LT1 and LS1 EVAP are compatible from a harness standpoint. If you have a 93-95 f-body like me, you'll have to disable all EVAP DTC's except the one pertaining to the purge solenoid. If you have a 96-97, you have an EVAP switch along with the solenoid and should not need to edit anything EVAP related in the PCM.
If you get trouble code P1336, that pertains to the CASE relearn procedure. It has no effect on any operations, it’s strictly for misfire detection. AFAIK only GM Tech 2’s and hptuners can do the CASE relearn.
Be sure to switch injector banks for cylinders 2-3-4-7!!!! That’s a big reason why 4 of my plugs fouled and it ran like garbage.
After the car was all buttoned up and ready to go, the only problems I had were tune-based. So far I have had zero problems with hardware.
EDIT 11/9/2014: I uploaded my HPTuners file for anyone who wants to have a look. That file is the culmination of 6 weeks and about 48-60 hours worth of street tuning.
EDIT 4/18/2015: Uploaded my latest tune. Been working on this thing since September and I continue to discover new bits of information to apply.
EDIT 4/20/15: The correct knock sensor for 24x is a 2001-2002 Express Van knock sensor. Delphi part number AS10015
EDIT 2/6/19: Uploaded a tune that should be a decent starting point for lots of people. Fueling is a little rich and WOT spark is a little low for safety. MAF, VE, fuel tables were tuned with a wide band. VE table was smoothed out, the other tables were left as is. When I made this tune, my car consisted of: Ram air, 48mm TB, stock heads, CC503 cam, Ford 30# injectors. There are tons of other tweaks throughout the tune to improve the driving experience as well. Learned a lot since 2014.
Here’s the resources I used:
Step by step 24x install with photos
OBD2 diagnostic trouble codes
24x Tuning tips from EFI connection
Ford SVO redtop injector offsets
LT1 PCM tuning
LT1 Tuning tips from the same site above
More tuning info
Build a crank hub install tool
My CamaroZ28 24x troubleshoot thread
My LS1Tech 24x troubleshoot thread
This evening I am finally able to say my car can confidently be street driven and drives at least as well as it did with the opti. I’ve been eyeballing 24x for years but I didn’t start really researching until January. February 17th, I purchased all the parts. Everything came from EFI Connection except the wire harness which I bought from BP Automotive.
PARTS:
The list from EFI includes: 96-97 timing cover, 24x kit with mechanical water pump (includes crank reluctor, crank position sensor, cam reluctor, cam position sensor, cam sensor housing), ignition coil bracket with LS2 coils, 0411 LS1 PCM, PCM bracket. Total for all that was $1,350. All parts looked great and they cleaned up the used parts really well. They also include very detailed and easy to follow install instructions. I probably over-researched the install procedure thinking the included instructions wouldn’t be helpful but they’re really all you need.
The harness from BP was $750 and it looks amazing. The construction is top quality and very impressive. Bill is an outstanding individual to deal with and was extra helpful with some of my troubleshooting. He has tons of experience with 24x.
For the tune I chose PCMforless. I’ve used them before and they did a good job of getting things in the ball park. I emailed them before sending in the PCM just to make sure they would be able to tune for 24x and was assured that they have done a number of 24x PCM’s already. This time however, the experience was not good. Long story short, 4 of my plugs fouled and I had to use a tune from a guy I found on hptuners forums. Also had to use a local shop with hptuners to upload the file. To his credit, Bryan was always polite and helpful via email. This whole PCM ordeal set me back $700.
Total cost of my 24x conversion was $2800. Obviously I wasn’t trying to do anything the cheap way. There are guys who have done this for just the cost of the 24x kit easily.
INSTALL:
If you’ve ever done any work on the front of the engine, I feel like you’ll be okay. There were a few steps that I had some trouble with. One was getting the timing chain off. Mine is an aftermarket single roller and it took a lot of wiggling and hard pulling to get that thing off. I have no idea how I would’ve put it back on without cutting the cam dowel pin.
On that note, cutting the cam dowel pin is a piece of cake with a dremel. I marked the pin flush with the cam reluctor and did my best to cut nice and straight. While cutting, your oil pan will most likely be hanging a little so be sure to stuff some paper towels or something in there so the shavings and metal tip don’t fall in.
Final tip: when installing timing chain, make sure the gears are dot-to-dot. As long as they’re aligned this way, you’re good to go.
EDIT 5/1/2015: While researching 24x one of the things that seemed to be incompatible was the EVAP system. I recently discovered this is not true. LT1 and LS1 EVAP are compatible from a harness standpoint. If you have a 93-95 f-body like me, you'll have to disable all EVAP DTC's except the one pertaining to the purge solenoid. If you have a 96-97, you have an EVAP switch along with the solenoid and should not need to edit anything EVAP related in the PCM.
If you get trouble code P1336, that pertains to the CASE relearn procedure. It has no effect on any operations, it’s strictly for misfire detection. AFAIK only GM Tech 2’s and hptuners can do the CASE relearn.
Be sure to switch injector banks for cylinders 2-3-4-7!!!! That’s a big reason why 4 of my plugs fouled and it ran like garbage.
After the car was all buttoned up and ready to go, the only problems I had were tune-based. So far I have had zero problems with hardware.
EDIT 11/9/2014: I uploaded my HPTuners file for anyone who wants to have a look. That file is the culmination of 6 weeks and about 48-60 hours worth of street tuning.
EDIT 4/18/2015: Uploaded my latest tune. Been working on this thing since September and I continue to discover new bits of information to apply.
EDIT 4/20/15: The correct knock sensor for 24x is a 2001-2002 Express Van knock sensor. Delphi part number AS10015
EDIT 2/6/19: Uploaded a tune that should be a decent starting point for lots of people. Fueling is a little rich and WOT spark is a little low for safety. MAF, VE, fuel tables were tuned with a wide band. VE table was smoothed out, the other tables were left as is. When I made this tune, my car consisted of: Ram air, 48mm TB, stock heads, CC503 cam, Ford 30# injectors. There are tons of other tweaks throughout the tune to improve the driving experience as well. Learned a lot since 2014.
Here’s the resources I used:
Step by step 24x install with photos
OBD2 diagnostic trouble codes
24x Tuning tips from EFI connection
Ford SVO redtop injector offsets
LT1 PCM tuning
LT1 Tuning tips from the same site above
More tuning info
Build a crank hub install tool
My CamaroZ28 24x troubleshoot thread
My LS1Tech 24x troubleshoot thread
Last edited by AdsoYo; Feb 6, 2019 at 11:13 PM.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
Awesome write up. Maybe u should make a detailed sticky for this forum. Add some pointers and where u can save money with used parts like the late model timing cover and used coils. Defiantly what tune to use and any sensor upgrades needed. I really liked your explanation of the EVAP conflict. I think most will be recamming the engine when they do this so the dowel wont be a problem but u could help choose a timing set.
Thx for posting.
Thx for posting.
Ahhh!!! You missed the experience of converting your old harness to the 24x! Thats a lot of fun in its own right (insert scarcastic tone). I can provide info on this if anyone is interested, mine is a 1997, most resources are for earlier model conversions from what I've seen for some reason.
I have a couple questions. EFI connection's website that if a double roller timing chain is used that you need one of their timing covers. Is this true? if so is it for clearance somewhere.
Also Is the crank and cam reluctors only avilable through them or is it something that they modified to work on the lt1?
Also Is the crank and cam reluctors only avilable through them or is it something that they modified to work on the lt1?
Ouch!..my forged stroker shortblock was cheaper than that, how much better does it drive though? PCM for less tried to sell me on converting to this when they tuned my car (last factory PCM LT1 they will touch on the dyno 
), I'm just too cheap to justify spending that much without just going LS all the way. JMO, seems like a LS would add more value to the car than a very expensive ignition system. Would you do it over again given the chance? Or is it over hyped?
), I'm just too cheap to justify spending that much without just going LS all the way. JMO, seems like a LS would add more value to the car than a very expensive ignition system. Would you do it over again given the chance? Or is it over hyped? Trending Topics
I have a couple questions. EFI connection's website that if a double roller timing chain is used that you need one of their timing covers. Is this true? if so is it for clearance somewhere.
Also Is the crank and cam reluctors only avilable through them or is it something that they modified to work on the lt1?
Also Is the crank and cam reluctors only avilable through them or is it something that they modified to work on the lt1?
Ouch!..my forged stroker shortblock was cheaper than that, how much better does it drive though? PCM for less tried to sell me on converting to this when they tuned my car (last factory PCM LT1 they will touch on the dyno ), I'm just too cheap to justify spending that much without just going LS all the way. JMO, seems like a LS would add more value to the car than a very expensive ignition system. Would you do it over again given the chance? Or is it over hyped?
), I'm just too cheap to justify spending that much without just going LS all the way. JMO, seems like a LS would add more value to the car than a very expensive ignition system. Would you do it over again given the chance? Or is it over hyped?I'm also still working on EVAP. I've run into a few people on the forums who've gotten it to work so once I get it hooked up and try it for myself, that will be the one imperfection in my otherwise perfect-looking wire harness. Bugs the crap out of me.
The tuning and engine management is so much more thorough and precise I don't think it's overhyped at all.
Not sure about the double roller timing cover. I've got a single so I never researched it. And the crank reluctor is their own design, not sure about the cam reluctor.
The tuning and engine management is so much more thorough and precise I don't think it's overhyped at all.
The tuning and engine management is so much more thorough and precise I don't think it's overhyped at all.
Having the ability to have tuning done literally anywhere is worth the cost of upgrade, especially if in areas where tuners are few and far between. Not to mention the ability to have a PCM function intelligently beyond 6k...and oh yea, no opti. Hell, even plug wire changes are simpler.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Amery,WI
Ahhh!!! You missed the experience of converting your old harness to the 24x! Thats a lot of fun in its own right (insert scarcastic tone). I can provide info on this if anyone is interested, mine is a 1997, most resources are for earlier model conversions from what I've seen for some reason.
I did the swap on my turbo car but repinned the harness my self, I'm on a rough tune only for start up and light driving right now, hopefully put it on the dyno with boost this summer and see what she can really do.
those files would get your car started but they won't be accurate. honestly I didn't think people were still finding this thread so I'm going to update those files since I've learned a lot since then. What fuel injectors are you running and are you still using a vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator? I have ran 24, 28, and 30lb injectors with and without vacuum and might have a file that can fit your app better.
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
those files would get your car started but they won't be accurate. honestly I didn't think people were still finding this thread so I'm going to update those files since I've learned a lot since then. What fuel injectors are you running and are you still using a vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator? I have ran 24, 28, and 30lb injectors with and without vacuum and might have a file that can fit your app better.
I'm dealing with a no start condition
I see your tune are quite differente from the ones I have
May I ask you a good one with ford red top 30 skynny injectors?
thank you
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
tons of spark plug set later...
1) the camshaft dowel pin MUST be cut. even if it was BELOW the lower reluctor area it was making interference. +12 signal was more than 360° let's say nearly 370°, and this makes ECM impossible to find when to fire
2) air gap on CKP it's deadly important. I put the CKP on a lathe, shawed away 0.60 mm, put it to spec at 0.80 mm air gap and the engine FIRED immediately
that's crazy, but it works for me!
bye !!!!
1) the camshaft dowel pin MUST be cut. even if it was BELOW the lower reluctor area it was making interference. +12 signal was more than 360° let's say nearly 370°, and this makes ECM impossible to find when to fire
2) air gap on CKP it's deadly important. I put the CKP on a lathe, shawed away 0.60 mm, put it to spec at 0.80 mm air gap and the engine FIRED immediately
that's crazy, but it works for me!
bye !!!!
Since this thread continues to get attention, I uploaded a new tune for people to use. The originals were okay, but I've learned a lot over the years and this most recent tune will work much better for people. If anyone uses this file, the only values you should need to change for your particular setup are VE, MAF, injector tables, base idle airflow. You can add WOT spark if you want, and you can fatten up O2 rich/lean and change stoich AFR if you want, but everything else should give you a good ride if you have an M6.
A little explanation of some things: under idle > airflow tab, the IAC settings are for the LT1 specifically. The throttle follower, cracker, and rolling idle tables are set for 6 speed manuals specifically. The way I have them calibrated gives the best feel of throttle response and the "soft landing" when coming to a stop and rpm goes from rolling idle to stopped idle.
The MAF curve is dialed in to my intake setup which is ram air and de-screened. If you have a CAI or stock intake, or still have the screen on the MAF, it will be off.
The VE table is dialed in for a 383 with stock heads, stock throttle body, and CC503 cam (224/230 .536/.544 (if you have 1.6rr) 112LSA). I smoothed out the VE table for no other reason than to make it look pretty. Since this file will potentially be used by lots of people, it doesn't need to be spot on.
I set stoich fuel to 14.4 instead of 14.7. Since most gas is somewhere between E0 (14.7) and E10 (14.2), I shot for the middle.
Power enrichment is set to be pretty rich so nobody blows up.
WOT spark is 34* for the same reason.
Spark retard is less aggressive and knock sensor is slightly less sensitive.
Spark dwell is increased a little since we have 8 coils now.
Transient fuel tables have been adjusted taking into account the differences between the LS1 and LT1 intakes.
Any questions just ask.
A little explanation of some things: under idle > airflow tab, the IAC settings are for the LT1 specifically. The throttle follower, cracker, and rolling idle tables are set for 6 speed manuals specifically. The way I have them calibrated gives the best feel of throttle response and the "soft landing" when coming to a stop and rpm goes from rolling idle to stopped idle.
The MAF curve is dialed in to my intake setup which is ram air and de-screened. If you have a CAI or stock intake, or still have the screen on the MAF, it will be off.
The VE table is dialed in for a 383 with stock heads, stock throttle body, and CC503 cam (224/230 .536/.544 (if you have 1.6rr) 112LSA). I smoothed out the VE table for no other reason than to make it look pretty. Since this file will potentially be used by lots of people, it doesn't need to be spot on.
I set stoich fuel to 14.4 instead of 14.7. Since most gas is somewhere between E0 (14.7) and E10 (14.2), I shot for the middle.
Power enrichment is set to be pretty rich so nobody blows up.
WOT spark is 34* for the same reason.
Spark retard is less aggressive and knock sensor is slightly less sensitive.
Spark dwell is increased a little since we have 8 coils now.
Transient fuel tables have been adjusted taking into account the differences between the LS1 and LT1 intakes.
Any questions just ask.
