can't find headers? 
can't find headers?
Just my initial search got me these guys:
http://treperformance.com/i-125899-m...th-y-pipe.html
it doesn't specify in stock or not, but it has an "add to cart" so might be worth a shot.
Good luck
http://treperformance.com/i-125899-m...th-y-pipe.html
it doesn't specify in stock or not, but it has an "add to cart" so might be worth a shot.
Good luck
I want mac mids because they are 1 5/8 primaries which have the best power curve gains at low-mid range rpm's which is perfect for daily driving. 1 5/8 is good for any small cam ported head combo I will ever want. Plus the macs have great plug access, ground clearance, good fitment, and no worries of a long tube header y pipe banging the floor board at wot. They are the perfect header for my application and of course they are going to be hard as hell to find. According to my readings LT's are best for mid to high rpm applications. Most are 1 3/4 primaries which is fine for a lt1 in the range of 3500-7000rpm and pushing big hp numbers, not for my daily driver. It continues to boggle my mind why ppl keep buying 1 3/4 lts for a daily driver stock or bolt on Lt1. Most tests show a decent loss in low end torque which I would be very pist about. I think the macs are a good balance of keeping low rpm air velocity for torque but yet they will still breathe good with the 1 5/8 primaries up to 6000rpm for hp gains too.
That argument sounds like it is right out their advertisement.
Plenty of people DD long tubes, they don't hit the floorboards or the k member if you replace your saggy worn out stock rubber motor and trans mounts. Pacesetter long tubes are 1 5/8 primary, btw.
Plenty of people DD long tubes, they don't hit the floorboards or the k member if you replace your saggy worn out stock rubber motor and trans mounts. Pacesetter long tubes are 1 5/8 primary, btw.
I think the pacesetter lts are 1 3/4 and the ps mids are 1 5/8. My info on lts are from reading like 10 studies from diff sources. One dyno had 1 1/2 primaries on a 440hp 383 and it gained like 25lbs of torque in the lower rpms. I dont think I would go with 1 3/4 lts unless I was planning on building a 500+ hp high rpm machine.
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Don't get overly concerned about header tube size and loss of low end torque. With 1 3/4 long tubes you'll have more power than traction in the lower gears, at least that's been my experience.
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Long tube headers help the exhaust pulses when 7 fires right after 5. Stretching the tubes further before they combine reduces the back pressure between the two.
Go with long tubes. If you do mods, do mods that give better results.
Go with long tubes. If you do mods, do mods that give better results.
Bufmat, macs are not junk they are proven great headers with many members on here confirming it including mysterybird who said he noticed no sotp difference when he went to long tubes. Junk is these china made crap lts that eBay is selling. I will take my made in usa macs if I ever find the damn things. I research a lot so I dont blow 500 on junk. If you look at the mac y pipe it has an awesome merge not like the cheap *** pacesetter y pipe which has one piping welded right into the other. I stand by my opinion about macs and 1 5/8 primaries and I want them for sure, mac needs to start making up some new batches. I found one company that might still have a few left in stock.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
Contact MAC directly: https://shop.macperformance.com/cont...m1plqscsfapp04.
Last time i contacted them they would build and ship within 6 weeks. I guess they dont have the demand for stocking these anymore.
The tube dia determines fixes peak hp rpm and tube length tips the power curve up or down with long tubes favoring lower rpm power. If u want long tubes Hedman sells some in 1&5/8" dia but no smog fittings - maybe they would install for added fee dont know and u would have to contact them. They are definitely not CARB legal but neither are MACs. I run sorties because i had to when in cali. Just because some bolt on expert tells u need long tubes dont mean poo-poo w/o real proof - not internet hearsay. Most any header will have better extraction than a stock manifold and the power differences between shorties and longtubes with stock heads and cam could well be nothing/unnoticeable - go with what u want here as the MACs are more user friendly than any cheap LTs. But if u have plans for larger cam then the 1&3/4" LTs should more powerful but u will have to deal with a working Y pipe connection and some creative modifications to keep your cat converters if u need them. Also its against Federal law to even modify your cat converter.
Too many just ignore that fact and brainlessly encourage others.
BTW the MACs dont bolt right up on the dual cat cars like '96 either. But i expect a good exh shop could easily trim the stock Y pipe to use them - u need to contact your local exh specialty shop first. I can only find Pacesetter shorties are CARB legal and bolt up correctly (Edelbrock got out of exh parts).
Hope this helps.
Last time i contacted them they would build and ship within 6 weeks. I guess they dont have the demand for stocking these anymore.
The tube dia determines fixes peak hp rpm and tube length tips the power curve up or down with long tubes favoring lower rpm power. If u want long tubes Hedman sells some in 1&5/8" dia but no smog fittings - maybe they would install for added fee dont know and u would have to contact them. They are definitely not CARB legal but neither are MACs. I run sorties because i had to when in cali. Just because some bolt on expert tells u need long tubes dont mean poo-poo w/o real proof - not internet hearsay. Most any header will have better extraction than a stock manifold and the power differences between shorties and longtubes with stock heads and cam could well be nothing/unnoticeable - go with what u want here as the MACs are more user friendly than any cheap LTs. But if u have plans for larger cam then the 1&3/4" LTs should more powerful but u will have to deal with a working Y pipe connection and some creative modifications to keep your cat converters if u need them. Also its against Federal law to even modify your cat converter.
Too many just ignore that fact and brainlessly encourage others.BTW the MACs dont bolt right up on the dual cat cars like '96 either. But i expect a good exh shop could easily trim the stock Y pipe to use them - u need to contact your local exh specialty shop first. I can only find Pacesetter shorties are CARB legal and bolt up correctly (Edelbrock got out of exh parts).
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info cardo0. I am going to run the catless mac y pipe which has a nice merge. No emissions testing here in Michigan. I will need a S pipe to connect the mac y pipe to the rest of my exhaust. Macs provide great plug access, ground clearance, and shouldn't be to hard to install. And no LT y pipe to possibly bang the floor boards at WOT. Gonna keep the car bolt on until the stock engine blows then I will do a small cam and maybe LE1 heads with the rebuild. That may be 5-10 years down the road though, even then the macs will prob be sufficient.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Coupland, TX, USA
I've also contemplated the MAC's with custom Y and dual converters for clearance. I do have inspections to pass but not as bad as CA. The cats have to be on but can be moved from the stock location. I hear Random makes a catted Y that fits the MAC's. Need EGR and AIR connections also. It's a year or two down the road though. I'm not going to build a 400+ HP motor, not much of a racer just a driver.
I agree with Pace Setter. They're cheap, not designed particularly well but are much better than iron manifolds. The problem with most companies that make LT's is they don't have EGR and AIR. Stainless Works and Kooks do. They're also pricey. I've contemplated a SW's complete exhaust too.
In my garage I have some used SLP shorty headers I picked up recently. Not sure I'm ever going to put them on. They'd be great for the CA guys or anyone that needs shorty headers that will pass inspection. I may put them on and get a Stainless Works dual cat Y, they make a very nice one that places both cats below the passenger. If I use the SLP's I'll get them ceramic coated first.
I agree with Pace Setter. They're cheap, not designed particularly well but are much better than iron manifolds. The problem with most companies that make LT's is they don't have EGR and AIR. Stainless Works and Kooks do. They're also pricey. I've contemplated a SW's complete exhaust too.
In my garage I have some used SLP shorty headers I picked up recently. Not sure I'm ever going to put them on. They'd be great for the CA guys or anyone that needs shorty headers that will pass inspection. I may put them on and get a Stainless Works dual cat Y, they make a very nice one that places both cats below the passenger. If I use the SLP's I'll get them ceramic coated first.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 588
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From: Las Vegas
Yea if u can still find them used the JBA shorties were smog legal and i always read good reports about them. Also Arizona Speed and Marine sold some 1&3/4" shorties smog legal if u can find those used it maybe useful. I already called JBA a while ago and they no longer make or sell the 4th gen shorty headers. Sorry i dont have part numbers for either header.
Funny how MAC will still build from their jigs on order but the others wont as MACs are sold non CARB legal. I had so much trouble getting my camaro to pass CA smog i suspect that had something to do with it. I can imagine - but only an assumption - the stock EGR valve dosent work correctly w/o enough back press as from the stock exh manifolds. So i think everyone is getting out of smog legal headers for the 4th gen LT1. Hooker, Edelbrock, JBA, AS&M all dropped their CARB legal headers for the 4th gen LT1.
Funny how MAC will still build from their jigs on order but the others wont as MACs are sold non CARB legal. I had so much trouble getting my camaro to pass CA smog i suspect that had something to do with it. I can imagine - but only an assumption - the stock EGR valve dosent work correctly w/o enough back press as from the stock exh manifolds. So i think everyone is getting out of smog legal headers for the 4th gen LT1. Hooker, Edelbrock, JBA, AS&M all dropped their CARB legal headers for the 4th gen LT1.
TECH Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 442
Likes: 3
From: Raleigh, NC
I've had both.
The MACs are ok but are prone to leaks over time due to their individual flanges on the primaries as opposed to one flange that connects all of the primaries into one mating surface to seal against the heads. The finish on them also goes to hell after a few years, leaving you with rusty uncoated headers. Plug access is good and ground clearance is just as good as stock. They offer a great gain over manifolds, probably very close to that LTs would offer on a stock engine. Other than the damn leaks, the biggest thing I hated about the MACs was that they sound just like an old beater pickup truck when paired with an off-road Y-pipe. Some people may like it, but I hated the way they sound.
The Hooker longtubes I have now are better in pretty much every other way. They don't leak, the coating on my set is still intact after several years, plug access is at least as good if not better, they sound MUCH better, and while I changed too many other things on the car to make a relevant flow comparison I cannot imagine the LTs not outflowing the MACs by a measurable margin. Yeah there is a compromise in ground clearance. So what. It's a f-body, not a pickup truck.
Small blocks already have abundant low-end torque to begin with, in many cases enough to overwhelm the tires at low speeds. The argument that a smaller primary makes better torque is pointless and highly debatable at best.
The MACs are ok but are prone to leaks over time due to their individual flanges on the primaries as opposed to one flange that connects all of the primaries into one mating surface to seal against the heads. The finish on them also goes to hell after a few years, leaving you with rusty uncoated headers. Plug access is good and ground clearance is just as good as stock. They offer a great gain over manifolds, probably very close to that LTs would offer on a stock engine. Other than the damn leaks, the biggest thing I hated about the MACs was that they sound just like an old beater pickup truck when paired with an off-road Y-pipe. Some people may like it, but I hated the way they sound.
The Hooker longtubes I have now are better in pretty much every other way. They don't leak, the coating on my set is still intact after several years, plug access is at least as good if not better, they sound MUCH better, and while I changed too many other things on the car to make a relevant flow comparison I cannot imagine the LTs not outflowing the MACs by a measurable margin. Yeah there is a compromise in ground clearance. So what. It's a f-body, not a pickup truck.
Small blocks already have abundant low-end torque to begin with, in many cases enough to overwhelm the tires at low speeds. The argument that a smaller primary makes better torque is pointless and highly debatable at best.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Coupland, TX, USA
I stand corrected: the AS&M headers match up to the Random Technologies Y (specifically made for them).
I believe the old Jet Hot headers were made by Hedman or Hooker. From what I've read Jet Hot's are good quality.
The problem with the LT1 4th gen is it's only a 5 year build with the first 3 years being a single cat, the other two being a dual cat unless you count the CA car in 95. There just aren't as many of the cars left and most of them have already gotten the headers installed so the demand for them is really low. If you eliminate the cats as some can in certain states it's still a low demand for a 5 year build only car. It just isn't cost effective to have something sit around hoping someone will buy it.
Other issues with steel is corrosion. You can paint or coat it but it's still steel. Stainless on the other hand should last longer even uncoated. Kook's seem to be the best and are definitely the most expensive. You can buy a used 4th gen for less than the price of a new Kook's exhaust system, granted it'll be a beater.
If you're hooked on mid-length then you need to check Craigslist and eBay almost daily, put feelers out on forums or local Facebook pages for hot rodders/f-body clubs to see if anyone is selling a used set of headers. I found the SLP shorties for cheap shipped to my door for $125. They've been in my garage for over a month now still in the unopened shipping box. I don't know if I'll ever put them on because I'm still undecided what I want to do with my still stock car. Since I'm not planning on building a high HP car I may just end up using them and getting the Stainless Works dual cat Y and call it a day. But I might not and get the SW's full length headers. I do plan to lower the car using Strano springs or the SLP package. The roads around here are pretty bumpy and my driveway isn't paved which doesn't help for clearance.
I believe the old Jet Hot headers were made by Hedman or Hooker. From what I've read Jet Hot's are good quality.
The problem with the LT1 4th gen is it's only a 5 year build with the first 3 years being a single cat, the other two being a dual cat unless you count the CA car in 95. There just aren't as many of the cars left and most of them have already gotten the headers installed so the demand for them is really low. If you eliminate the cats as some can in certain states it's still a low demand for a 5 year build only car. It just isn't cost effective to have something sit around hoping someone will buy it.
Other issues with steel is corrosion. You can paint or coat it but it's still steel. Stainless on the other hand should last longer even uncoated. Kook's seem to be the best and are definitely the most expensive. You can buy a used 4th gen for less than the price of a new Kook's exhaust system, granted it'll be a beater.
If you're hooked on mid-length then you need to check Craigslist and eBay almost daily, put feelers out on forums or local Facebook pages for hot rodders/f-body clubs to see if anyone is selling a used set of headers. I found the SLP shorties for cheap shipped to my door for $125. They've been in my garage for over a month now still in the unopened shipping box. I don't know if I'll ever put them on because I'm still undecided what I want to do with my still stock car. Since I'm not planning on building a high HP car I may just end up using them and getting the Stainless Works dual cat Y and call it a day. But I might not and get the SW's full length headers. I do plan to lower the car using Strano springs or the SLP package. The roads around here are pretty bumpy and my driveway isn't paved which doesn't help for clearance.