I agree with it's little input, but I can also see how a negative pressure on the head side can effect steam pockets in the head vs a positive pressure. But, isn't that why the steam lines are run in that location on the back of the heads? To create flow in a dead spot buy using that negative pressure?

It is a closed pressurized system so with everything bled and working correctly it doesn't really matter, but interesting none the less.

 

I don't think he's specifically talking about you. To be honest your results are very good for the limitations of the EWP, but you have everything else set up better than most for the rest of the cooling system (air flow and radiator; mostly radiator), and your driving conditions and RPM's are very good for an EWP too. That 6 speed helps too, lower cruising gear and less heat from the transmission through the radiator too.

I too am a 6 speed, but with what I want to do with my car the EWP is out of the question. If this was a street/strip car I'd probably have one already. I think the weakest link to my cooling system right now is the Radiator is just too small for my engine. That'll be addressed in a couple months (hopefully less) when everything from my move is settled.

Good point. What I would love to see is a remote mount EWP and an Opti replacement option that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

FWIW, I didn't find it all too complex/hard setting up my EWP. No more hassle than wiring a stereo system. Figure out your power supply, figure out your routing and you are done. Is it more involved than bolting on a mechanical pump? Sure.

Getting the Meziere relay harness and their instructions was pretty straight forward. Pump is powered by KOEO KOER and warning light will illuminate any time I lose power to the pump in those situations. So I added more wiring by running a warning light relay this way but good insurance IMO.

Something else to note, is I'm doing a Griffin aluminum radiator 1-2524x-1 along with this EWP install. Radiator is no bigger than AC condenser, but a dual row with 1" tubes and about 2" thick. Tucks down behind the condenser nicely. I hope to be done this weekend. I expect A LOT cooler temps due to my OEM radiator plugged up. COULD HAVE gone with the OEM fit BeCool, but that was $550 itself.

 

Tap into AIR pump hot under relay and run to EWP connector with inline fuse. Cut AIR pump trigger wire on relay and splice to ignition on. Run wire from EWP connector to ground bus on passenger side strut tower. If that takes you more than 15 minutes then sell the car.

 

The complexity of it is not in the installation. It's in the actual process of conversion of energy.

 

How in the world is that complex?

Not like anyone is making a alternator or anything remotely close. Can't imagine how "complex" my car is using that logic.

Complex is not a brushed generator with a one wire excitation, sorry.

 

I don't see an EWP being more "complex" even from a "conversion of energy" standpoint.

OEM pump needs all pieces/shafts to be manufactured true and straight for them to spin in-line at the RPM's the see, they all rely on bearings and seals to be properly working.

EWP eliminates all that and is one self-contained electric motor powered only by 2 wires. It spins at a predetermined RPM at all times which was designed into the function of the pump from the start.

OP, if you had an EWP, then you wouldn't have the issue you had which prompted this thread. AmIright??

 

It's not a generator, it's an alternator. There is a difference and while more efficient (alternator vs generator) definitely more complex. The more added steps there are to make an action exist, the more complex it is and the more likely there is to be a failure. When you buy christmas lights, do you look for the ones that are run in parallel and not series so one light doesn't kill all of them? Think about it like that.

With the EWP, you have a belt driven by the crankshaft pulley which spins an alternator, the alternator then converts mechanical energy to electrical AC voltage, then converts the AC to DC voltage to run it to the electric motor which converts the DC voltage back to mechanical energy to spin the impeller to pump the coolant. Mind you all those bearings and seals and brushes in all the individual parts all are a factor now. Power steering or AC pump seizes and snaps the belt and you're down to battery power alone, and we all now know (well, I hope he's been listening) that the more load you put on a battery the faster the battery dies and that EWP is a nice little load for a small car battery (roughly 45Ah for a good Optima Redtop or Yellow top, less for your cheapo batteries; add in 100°+F heat and that capacity drops even further).

The mechanical pump on the other hand takes mechanical energy and spins the impeller to pump the coolant. And if any accessories go out, it doesn't matter. It's a stand alone system, and an efficient and reliable one at that.

Sure the Mechanical one has it's issues, I never said it didn't. Hell, I made this thread to point one out. But, the EWP has it's own set of issues too.

You're ignoring all the other things before the electric motor spinning the shaft that is supported by two bearings, seals, etc. Etc. Etc. You know like the alternator and everything related to it is now part of the cooling system pump. More complex. It's simple really to understand. If the electric motor consumes 5.8A, then the alternator must produce more than that, and therefore the engine must produce even more than the alternator needs to produce. If you used a mechanical pump to pump the same amount of fluid as the EWP does it would be more efficient, that plays directly into the complexity of the system. Typically, the less complex the system the more efficient it is and it'll have a longer life (proven) and more capability (proven).

If I had an EWP, I would have other issues. Like overheating because I actually drive my car how I intend to use it. Just haven't been able to go to the track and do it yet. But we have a bunch of paved neighborhoods with no houses because of the financial crash of 2008. So, no I wouldn't have this issue, I'd have bigger ones. Or, if I was ignorant and just slapped one on, I would have this issue because I would have to find the spline shaft and drive sprocket to re-install to go back to mechanical.....

 

Roger, I am fairly sure I have told you the test I posted about was on my car, my experience, I just comprehend details.

Far as the timing chain excuse posted, the LT1 timing chain is not a problem, it is stout. It is just a cop out used after the reduced cooling capacity get pounded into thick heads.

 

By that logic turning up the radio would result in decreased HP and gas mileage....yet it doesn't.

 

Lol GOT EMMM

 

Actually, it does. It's immeasurable with most systems though, on the dyno. Competition stereos absolutely have this issue.

 

All the arguments on this thread have me like:
"I DONT KNOW WHAT WERE YELLING ABOUT" (2 minutes later) "LOUD NOISES"

 

Everyone on this thread is acting like a woman! I read somewhere there periods can attract bears, and bears can smell the menstruation!

 

"WE'RE"

Watevah!

 

Arguing complexity as in the transfer of power types is a weak one, you were better arguing its lack of cooling when compared to a mechanical at full tilt. I agreed with that logic.

But, generator vs alternator is semantics. I can make a generator or alternator that outputs AC or DC without brushes, so meh. When was the last true brushed generator in a car? 1940s?

Back on topic, I would bet having a overkill alternator working within its efficiency range is better at power transformation that a mechanical pump at the same WOT rpm. The stock pump is prob working way to hard at that point and or, potentially cavitating. (if its even doing anything)

What would be awesome, is a slipped clutch WP combined with a EWP for idling and mid range stuff. So WOT would engage a proper designed impeller and not exceed the needed flow.

 

"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they name it electric water pump. Which of course in German means a whales vagina" lulz, would everybody use they're empty worthless ******* skull and understand basically all HRC is saying is that a EWP at highway speeds is going to cool less than a mechanical and if your EWP dies and you don't watch your gauges your motors gonna get toasted. A mechanical doesn't draw any juice from the battery, has the same amount of cooling at all speeds, but doesn't give you that magical extra 5.6HP. Which, we all know knocks off a full second in the 1/4. IMHO, street cars run mechanical, EWP is for track cars.

 

While I understand the logic behind power generation and loss in a system between the mech and EWP which equates to overall system efficiency, it is all he said she said without numbers. Now I'm not going to sit here and demand proof and numbers since we know that won't work nor will someone do that. Mechanical pump you have efficiency losses due direct connection to a shaft entering the motor. EWP you have efficiency losses due to electrical draw on the battery/alt. Which one has less impact on the motor as a whole? My guess is the EWP since people claim MPG increase and HP increase going to EWP (neither reason why I am putting on one). I will go along with the standpoint that EWP falls short at higher RPM which by situation will not work for some people like yourself. But this whole energy conversion stuff I think, while true, is a moot point given all other variables a car sees.

BUT assuming ALL variables the same it would be interesting to see an cooling efficiency graph plotting temp vs RPM between the two pumps. People say that a EWP will fall short on higher RPM situations (and I believe that since it a set GPM operation). But what are we talking here? 2000rpm? 6000rpm? It was designed with 38GPM (?) and a HD 55GPM rating so I assume someone was smart enough to figure out a AVERAGE GPM that a stock LT1 cooling system needed.

Does anyone know the GPM of a mechanical pump (assuming a all stock system) at varying RPM's? I'm honestly curious on that one and NOT poking the bear.

Why not design a pump with variable speed that is RPM dependent?

 

Sums it up pretty well IMO.

 

IIRC, The LT1 Mechanical pump maxes out at 66 GPM at 6000 RPMs and 20 GPM at 2000 RPMs (this is rated ON the engine; as installed). The Meziere HD is rated at 55 GPM free flow, Meziere will not rate their pump on the engine.

My point of energy conversion wasn't so much about efficiency (it is less efficient, but uses less power because it's doing less work), but more about the complexity of the system makes it less reliable.

Here's some numbers, GPMxPSIx.0007=HP (roughly). We know the Meziere HD uses 5.8A, let's put that at 14.8V (car on alternator on) that comes out to 85W or .115HP. When I called Meziere, the best info they could give me was a "best guess 6psi head pressure"; personally I think this is a high estimate but their the manufacturer so it's their word I'll go by. Using that information we can conclude that the HD highest flowing unit can pump a maximum of 27.5GPM, this is ignoring pumping and efficiency losses (like the motor might draw in 85W but only use 77W to spin the impeller, and out of that 77W only so much will actually move coolant). It's also ignoring system pressure, which will further reduce it's GPM at 85W.

Now, when comparing the above to the mechanical most would say 85W vs 6HP(4470W), it's an easy trap to get stuck in (I do too sometimes). But most of that 6 hp is losses due to acceleration of the impeller pushing against the pressure and mass of the coolant; the electric pump is continuous, so it doesn't rob power when the engine is revved.

Anywho, because no tests were done to the Electric Pump on an actual engine and GM doesn't public release their test results of the mechanical pump AND the variances from vehicle to vehicle (type, location, mods, etc), we are left wide a section from about 2000-3000 RPMs that the Mechanical and Electric perform similarly, below 2K and the EWP will pump faster (not always a good thing, but no reported negatives in application), and over 3K the MWP will pump faster.

I never said that at EWP at HWY speeds WILL cool less, I said it has been reported by some that it does cool less; YMMV. And those reports point directly to the EWP limited cooling capacity.

Those who have experienced a battery/alternator failure with an EWP have stated that no overheating issues were noted (that's a good thing), but the EWP will help drain that battery faster. Using a good redtop Ultima Battery at 45Ah that 5.8A can drain that battery faster (it's like putting a battery that is 15% smaller on it). So, you won't overheat but you will kill that battery sooner. That 15% extra capacity could be the difference of driving home or needing a tow truck (or buddy with a trailer or rope).

What's the right pump for what car depends on a lot of factors. An EWP is great for drag racing, good for some people's daily street car, and a big no no for road racing. The Mechanical pump works in all scenarios; maybe not as good as the EWP in some, but works in them all. The same can't be said for the EWP.

So, where this all started: EWP=win? No, not always. That was my point.