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My car (93 Z28 M6) currently makes 260whp/304wtq with a PVC intake pipe, cone filter, stock manifolds, dual 2.5" to single 3" with bullet dumped at axle, aggressive underdrive pulley, AC delete, and 38mm restrictor plate behind the throttle body. If I bump up a class, I'll need to make 360whp and 380wtq to max out. I was thinking of a hotcam (cheap, I have a chip for it, it's not aggressive, it is billet), Comp Pro Magnum 1.6s, stronger pushrods, decent springs, TSP long tubes, custom x-pipe/bullets/dumps, aluminum flywheel, ARP rod bolts, and my 50mm throttle body ought to make 340whp. PO claims 330whp with the hotcam and shorties before he demodded back to this class. To make up the extra 20whp and maintain as much torque as possible, I was thinking of the Trickflow 195. I'm not interested in more lift than the hotcam makes or aggressive ramps as this thing lives at redline, it's a road race car. Durability in my current class is great, though I understand I'll be building a new bottom end at some point in the new class if I go that route. I currently have a fresh 4 bolt bottom end running in the car and would likely splay my 2 bolt spare block in the garage and go with stronger pistons and rods. Anyone care to sanity check me here? From the little research I've done, it looks like I'm not far off. I've not dyno'd the car unrestricted yet, though I plan to in Feb or Mar when I do my restricted dynos as well. I expect it'll make 280-285 unplugged.
Got pics? How much is locked up in just lightly massaging the stock heads? From what I've seen once you hog out the runners the hp goes up and exceeds the torque noticeably.
Few ways to skin the LT1 cat to get 350 RWHP. Your formula with the TF heads & Hot Cam with supporting mods may be one way of doing so
On a otherwise stock 350 LT1 I had GM AL heads mildly ported and larger valves put in with a small custom grind 214/220 cam on a 112 LSA with .566 int/.547 ex with 1:6 RR and made 351 RWHP/350 RWTQ. This was with Edelbrock shorty headers and a K&N cold air intake
You could send your heads out to Lloyd Elliott and he could grind you a custom cam for no more and likely less than buying the TF heads and you would make more than the hot cam & TF heads
I can't have torque less than hp. Reason for hotcam is I figure I can find one cheap and used 1, 2 I have a chip tuned for it so initially I can do cam, rockers, pushrods, my other hotcam chip, my 50mm TB, long tubes, and the x-pipe/duals I'll need anyway on the cheap(ish). Long term I'd be in it for some form of airflow mods to the heads or new heads. At that point, I'd be looking at some way to either burn chips or a standalone so I'd be open to different cam options.
How much lift will good springs tolerate at constant high RPM operation?
EDIT: Looks like I stand corrected on the price of some LE1 heads, I thought they were $1300 for heads alone but that's LE2. At 195cc, I wonder if they lose any torque? I only care about 3000+.
Last edited by Supercharged111; Dec 24, 2015 at 07:12 PM.
I can't have torque less than hp. Reason for hotcam is I figure I can find one cheap and used 1, 2 I have a chip tuned for it so initially I can do cam, rockers, pushrods, my other hotcam chip, my 50mm TB, long tubes, and the x-pipe/duals I'll need anyway on the cheap(ish). Long term I'd be in it for some form of airflow mods to the heads or new heads. At that point, I'd be looking at some way to either burn chips or a standalone so I'd be open to different cam options.
How much lift will good springs tolerate at constant high RPM operation?
EDIT: Looks like I stand corrected on the price of some LE1 heads, I thought they were $1300 for heads alone but that's LE2. At 195cc, I wonder if they lose any torque? I only care about 3000+.
Because ideally I need 380lb/ft. If I'm down 2 or 3 no biggie, but I don't want a 10-15 spread which is why, IMO, a smaller cam with good flowing heads that maintain high velocity is the ticket to get as close as possible. 383 would probably be best, but I can't do it all at once. Anything over 360whp will have to be detuned for, so as much torque as I can get with that 360whp is really important.
I should specified that the next class up specifies 9:1 hp/weight and 8.5:1 tq/weight with my car being 3250# post race. Long term I could get the car down to 3200# too, another reason I need to keep torque in mind as I'd be closer to 355whp/376wtq then.
Sounds kinda gay, but every last hp matters on the big end. Get a nose in on your competitor and that may be all it takes.
Last edited by Supercharged111; Dec 25, 2015 at 09:15 AM.
Because ideally I need 380lb/ft. If I'm down 2 or 3 no biggie, but I don't want a 10-15 spread which is why, IMO, a smaller cam with good flowing heads that maintain high velocity is the ticket to get as close as possible. 383 would probably be best, but I can't do it all at once. Anything over 360whp will have to be detuned for, so as much torque as I can get with that 360whp is really important.
I should specified that the next class up specifies 9:1 hp/weight and 8.5:1 tq/weight with my car being 3250# post race. Long term I could get the car down to 3200# too, another reason I need to keep torque in mind as I'd be closer to 355whp/376wtq then.
Sounds kinda gay, but every last hp matters on the big end. Get a nose in on your competitor and that may be all it takes.
Then you do NOT want the hot cam. This cam is spec'ed for HP above 5500 RPMs.
And your peak TQ numbers will never be as high as the peak HP numbers with that cam.....unless you go stroker. And then, still might not pull strong torque numbers.
Odd, I'd been led to believe it was a good torquey cam and pooned out a bit on peak numbers. Most cams are spec'd for hp peak above 5500, if not then they'd pretty much be stock. I figure a 350 isn't going to make 380wtq, , but would a 383 be tough to hit my hp mark without going over on torque? I rifled through the dyno archives and I see most making more hp than torque with the hotcam and only a couple making same/more torque. I imagine most aren't running duals with an x-pipe and I'd have to believe that is hurting their torque to some extent.
Odd, I'd been led to believe it was a good torquey cam and pooned out a bit on peak numbers. Most cams are spec'd for hp peak above 5500, if not then they'd pretty much be stock. I figure a 350 isn't going to make 380wtq, , but would a 383 be tough to hit my hp mark without going over on torque? I rifled through the dyno archives and I see most making more hp than torque with the hotcam and only a couple making same/more torque. I imagine most aren't running duals with an x-pipe and I'd have to believe that is hurting their torque to some extent.
The first cam I had in my 396ci (in my '96 Impala) was the hot cam. The HP numbers were higher than the torque number.
That said....you do what ya wanna. But IMO, if you want torque with a small(ish) cam, then you'd be better served with the GMPP (Crane cams) 845 or 846 cam.
The first cam I had in my 396ci (in my '96 Impala) was the hot cam. The HP numbers were higher than the torque number.
That said....you do what ya wanna. But IMO, if you want torque with a small(ish) cam, then you'd be better served with the GMPP (Crane cams) 845 or 846 cam.
Best of luck with whatever you do.
KW
Good to know, thanks. Remember part of this first phase hinges on the hotcam as I have a chip tuned for such. If I can pop in an 845 or 846 and afrs/knock counts are good then I'm set until round 2.
Anything I'm missing wit the valvetrain? If I do hardened pushrods, guide plates, springs, and comp pro magnum rollers will it stay together?
What is the COMPLETE list of mods the "chip" was used for? You go changing from that combo and that chip wont work. Even a change in header length is going to mess with a speed density 93 tuning needs. Add 30hp worth of airflow and it will compromise the accuracy of the tune.
What is the COMPLETE list of mods the "chip" was used for? You go changing from that combo and that chip wont work. Even a change in header length is going to mess with a speed density 93 tuning needs. Add 30hp worth of airflow and it will compromise the accuracy of the tune.
Shorty headers and cam. Not sure what he did for rockers, but it made 330whp. I can't imagine adding long tubes and duals on top of that screwing with it too bad, the VE curve won't change much. Either way, I've got a wideband for it to be certain. The other variable is how good of a tune it is? That I can't say. I may put it together and it sucks. Really wish EBL Flash supported SD LT1.
Because ideally I need 380lb/ft. If I'm down 2 or 3 no biggie, but I don't want a 10-15 spread which is why, IMO, a smaller cam with good flowing heads that maintain high velocity is the ticket to get as close as possible. 383 would probably be best, but I can't do it all at once. Anything over 360whp will have to be detuned for, so as much torque as I can get with that 360whp is really important.
I should specified that the next class up specifies 9:1 hp/weight and 8.5:1 tq/weight with my car being 3250# post race. Long term I could get the car down to 3200# too, another reason I need to keep torque in mind as I'd be closer to 355whp/376wtq then.
Sounds kinda gay, but every last hp matters on the big end. Get a nose in on your competitor and that may be all it takes.
When I was "cam only" I ran a XE 224/236 cam on a 112 lsa with stock, untouched heads and mid-length headers, full catback exhaust. The SAE numbers were 352/364, with a power peak peak at about 6000 or so rpm. Nice fat torque curve too. Here's the dyno graph (sorry it's a bit hard to read, it dates back to 2005). The uncorrected numbers were 358/370.
I could have gotten probably a small handful more out of that setup by switching to long tubes, a valve job on the heads, and a .026 head gasket for a small bump in compression. I'd certainly think that with those minor revisions it'd be right on top of the numbers you want.
When I was "cam only" I ran a XE 224/236 cam on a 112 lsa with stock, untouched heads and mid-length headers, full catback exhaust. The SAE numbers were 352/364, with a power peak peak at about 6000 or so rpm. Nice fat torque curve too. Here's the dyno graph (sorry it's a bit hard to read, it dates back to 2005). The uncorrected numbers were 358/370.
I could have gotten probably a small handful more out of that setup by switching to long tubes, a valve job on the heads, and a .026 head gasket for a small bump in compression. I'd certainly think that with those minor revisions it'd be right on top of the numbers you want.
How aggressive are those XE lobes? Those are good numbers and even my ham fists could probably find another 10hp or so in the heads. Just need to research more on DIY LT1 head porting as I have ported before. I just need the upper end to stay together so the bottom end can too. It's going to live at 5000-6000 RPM.
Shorty headers and cam. Not sure what he did for rockers, but it made 330whp. I can't imagine adding long tubes and duals on top of that screwing with it too bad, the VE curve won't change much. Either way, I've got a wideband for it to be certain. The other variable is how good of a tune it is? That I can't say. I may put it together and it sucks. Really wish EBL Flash supported SD LT1.
Not that long tunes will add 30hp BUT aiming for 360 from 330 is adding almost 10% it is really easy at that level but will screwup a speed density tune. Knowing the injector size he used would be CRITICAL, risk short term engine destruction if you get it wrong.
Longtubes and duals would be cause for a retune on speed density, your wallet might want you deny that but it doesn't change the fact.
Shorty headers and cam. Not sure what he did for rockers, but it made 330whp. I can't imagine adding long tubes and duals on top of that screwing with it too bad, the VE curve won't change much. Either way, I've got a wideband for it to be certain. The other variable is how good of a tune it is? That I can't say. I may put it together and it sucks. Really wish EBL Flash supported SD LT1.
Long tubes will change the VE tables, they increase scavenging at higher rpm a lot over shorties. They also move the O2s further down the exhaust stream. This will require adjusting the O2 delay and target (delay much more so than target). You'll definitely want a retune with the changes.
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Will this make 360whp? 
