2nd Cam thread by yours truly
01-03-2016, 09:54 PM
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2nd Cam thread by yours truly Awhile back I had a post about two lunati cams the 60121 and the 60122. You guys convinced me that the 60122 was too big for unported heads. So I was gonna go with the 60121. Well long story short I never got around to it.
I've got the motor torn down to this point now. The engine bay had to come apart (well I took it apart to make things a little easier). So I was gonna do it now. But I'm starting to come around to the cc503 cam and was wondering what everyone here thinks. The 503 is proven to be effective and the 60121 has less proof behind it.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2011
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...c1QaAg_R8P8HAQ
Also will these components work well with either.
Spring Kit
https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=8668
Roller Rockers
http://www.scorpioncheckout.com/product_p/scp1038.htm
Guide Plates
Was thinking Trickflow. Don't really want to mess with Iskys with the engine in the car. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Pushrods
Will have to measure and see what size but will be hardened. Any recommendation on brand or size
Lifters
LS7
Rocker studs
ARP 3/8
Timing Set
I was going to use a stock replacement. Unless anyone can convince me otherwise. I cant find much info on if this is a bad idea, so if it is please let me know.
Car will be mostly street driven. Might see track a few times a year.
Already have under drive pulley, Pacesetter LT, ORY, Magnaflow catback, Stock Ram Air box with K&N, No emissions, about a 3200 stall, shift kit, etc
I do have plans to go NX but I'm not sure when I'm hoping later this year, I will be going LE2 in a few years or less depending on a lot of things, but will end up with a bigger cam then I'm sure. Just don't have it in the budget at the moment.
Anybody have anything to add or it'd be appreciated.
I've got the motor torn down to this point now. The engine bay had to come apart (well I took it apart to make things a little easier). So I was gonna do it now. But I'm starting to come around to the cc503 cam and was wondering what everyone here thinks. The 503 is proven to be effective and the 60121 has less proof behind it.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2011
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...c1QaAg_R8P8HAQ
Also will these components work well with either.
Spring Kit
https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=8668
Roller Rockers
http://www.scorpioncheckout.com/product_p/scp1038.htm
Guide Plates
Was thinking Trickflow. Don't really want to mess with Iskys with the engine in the car. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Pushrods
Will have to measure and see what size but will be hardened. Any recommendation on brand or size
Lifters
LS7
Rocker studs
ARP 3/8
Timing Set
I was going to use a stock replacement. Unless anyone can convince me otherwise. I cant find much info on if this is a bad idea, so if it is please let me know.
Car will be mostly street driven. Might see track a few times a year.
Already have under drive pulley, Pacesetter LT, ORY, Magnaflow catback, Stock Ram Air box with K&N, No emissions, about a 3200 stall, shift kit, etc
I do have plans to go NX but I'm not sure when I'm hoping later this year, I will be going LE2 in a few years or less depending on a lot of things, but will end up with a bigger cam then I'm sure. Just don't have it in the budget at the moment.
Anybody have anything to add or it'd be appreciated.
01-05-2016, 04:03 PM
#3
.oller Rockers
http://www.scorpioncheckout.com/product_p/scp1038.htm
Guide Plates
Was thinking Trickflow. Don't really want to mess with Iskys with the engine in the car. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Pushrods
Will have to measure and see what size but will be hardened. Any recommendation on brand or size
.
http://www.scorpioncheckout.com/product_p/scp1038.htm
Guide Plates
Was thinking Trickflow. Don't really want to mess with Iskys with the engine in the car. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Pushrods
Will have to measure and see what size but will be hardened. Any recommendation on brand or size
.
KW
01-05-2016, 06:44 PM
#4
OP
since you asked for opinions...
I would do the 60121 with stock heads
definitely the Lunati spring kit regardless of cam choice
since they cost the same..get 7/16 ARP studs and whatever RR brand you like (although my nod goes to Comp Ultra's)
Push Rods....several choices. I went with Trick Flo with .080 thick walls. On a stock motor/heads the 7.200 should be fine...always good to measure though
on rebuild motor with block decking and head milling and possibly a thinner head gasket you need to measure and very likely a shorter PR between 7.100-7.200 is needed
since you asked for opinions...
I would do the 60121 with stock heads
definitely the Lunati spring kit regardless of cam choice
since they cost the same..get 7/16 ARP studs and whatever RR brand you like (although my nod goes to Comp Ultra's)
Push Rods....several choices. I went with Trick Flo with .080 thick walls. On a stock motor/heads the 7.200 should be fine...always good to measure though
on rebuild motor with block decking and head milling and possibly a thinner head gasket you need to measure and very likely a shorter PR between 7.100-7.200 is needed
01-05-2016, 08:41 PM
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OP
since you asked for opinions...
I would do the 60121 with stock heads
definitely the Lunati spring kit regardless of cam choice
since they cost the same..get 7/16 ARP studs and whatever RR brand you like (although my nod goes to Comp Ultra's)
Push Rods....several choices. I went with Trick Flo with .080 thick walls. On a stock motor/heads the 7.200 should be fine...always good to measure though
on rebuild motor with block decking and head milling and possibly a thinner head gasket you need to measure and very likely a shorter PR between 7.100-7.200 is needed
since you asked for opinions...
I would do the 60121 with stock heads
definitely the Lunati spring kit regardless of cam choice
since they cost the same..get 7/16 ARP studs and whatever RR brand you like (although my nod goes to Comp Ultra's)
Push Rods....several choices. I went with Trick Flo with .080 thick walls. On a stock motor/heads the 7.200 should be fine...always good to measure though
on rebuild motor with block decking and head milling and possibly a thinner head gasket you need to measure and very likely a shorter PR between 7.100-7.200 is needed
The best I can figure is the the cc503 has more duration and the Lunati has more lift. Comp would make more high end power, but the Lunati would make more low end torque. Lunati is advanced 6 degrees and the comp only 4 degrees.
So I'm not sure which would be better. I see myself doing more dig racing than roll racing so I was interested in the Lunati. But the higher RPM power of the cc503 would be nice however I suspect with stock heads and injectors I would starve it of air and fuel before I could maximize it's true potential. Man I wish I could spring for the a set of LE2s.
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01-05-2016, 08:58 PM
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Bit of overkill but it leaves room to grow, do the 7/16" studs and all now and never have to buy again unless going to shafts.
Didn't think about that do they make narrow body rockers for a 7/16 studs or am I gonna have to get the standard rockers
Not a safety precaution either setup will work just fine so long as you set it up right.
Didn't think about that do they make narrow body rockers for a 7/16 studs or am I gonna have to get the standard rockers
Not a safety precaution either setup will work just fine so long as you set it up right.
BTW guys thanks for your posts and opinions. They are always welcome in my ears.
01-05-2016, 09:16 PM
#10
When I said setup I was referring to pushrod length and preload so setup is comparable.
Far as "custom" cam on stock heads, if you reuse it with later head upgrade it wouldn't be a waste. "custom" is often just spec'd for performance rather than the catalog cams where they spread the LSA to tame the idle and manners.
Far as "custom" cam on stock heads, if you reuse it with later head upgrade it wouldn't be a waste. "custom" is often just spec'd for performance rather than the catalog cams where they spread the LSA to tame the idle and manners.
01-05-2016, 10:44 PM
#11
Outlaw
Both off the shelf cams have +/- over the other. A "custom" cam by someone like Lloyd Elliott for stock heads will be better than either off the shelf cam and only cost about $50 more
If you are building "in steps" and will later get LEx heads, etc., than do the 7/16" RR studs as I said earlier. Cost is same.
LE uses that Lunati spring kit on his LE2 heads so if you had those now you just transfer to the new LE heads when you get those
There is no difference in lashing valves on SA or NSA RR. You will need guide plates and hardened PR for NSA. Something you would want for a LE2 H/C package so investing in 1:6 RR and thinking future mods.....get NSA now. If just staying 503 or simple cam & stock heads SA are OK.
The valve cover mod is simple and takes just minutes with a dermal. I know Crane Gold "narrow body" 1:6 RR clear stock VC with no baffle triming
Both off the shelf cams have +/- over the other. A "custom" cam by someone like Lloyd Elliott for stock heads will be better than either off the shelf cam and only cost about $50 more
If you are building "in steps" and will later get LEx heads, etc., than do the 7/16" RR studs as I said earlier. Cost is same.
LE uses that Lunati spring kit on his LE2 heads so if you had those now you just transfer to the new LE heads when you get those
There is no difference in lashing valves on SA or NSA RR. You will need guide plates and hardened PR for NSA. Something you would want for a LE2 H/C package so investing in 1:6 RR and thinking future mods.....get NSA now. If just staying 503 or simple cam & stock heads SA are OK.
The valve cover mod is simple and takes just minutes with a dermal. I know Crane Gold "narrow body" 1:6 RR clear stock VC with no baffle triming
01-06-2016, 05:35 AM
#12
My opinion is go with the cc503 as you'll have a better shot at a dead on mail order tune since its so common, the Lunati is less common and that's cool to be different if you go that route but I'd do the 503 for ease of getting a mail order tune. The springs are a perfect choice.
For rockers, I'd cut the baffles out of your valve covers anyways for ease of installation and removal in the car, regardless of rocker choice. Then personally since you are on a budget and its winter and you have 2 months until driving weather anyways I'd shop around for used low mile ones, be it crower, pro or ultra pro mags, crane golds, scorpions, whatever, and a 7/16 stud NSA. Find used 7/16 studs as well, that's a non wear part, and I got my guide plates and pushrods used as well. I would do NSA for the room to grow, same on 7/16, your springs chosen leave room to grow so might as well keep that philosophy going, and you won't have any worries while spinning it to 6500 which you will want to do on either cam. I would personally skip the lifters if yours are ok, too many horror stories on the ls7s. I would do 0.026 head gaskets while the motor is out though. Timing set you could get a new cam sprocket and chain on rock auto for cheap, and a GM white spring for the pump.
For rockers, I'd cut the baffles out of your valve covers anyways for ease of installation and removal in the car, regardless of rocker choice. Then personally since you are on a budget and its winter and you have 2 months until driving weather anyways I'd shop around for used low mile ones, be it crower, pro or ultra pro mags, crane golds, scorpions, whatever, and a 7/16 stud NSA. Find used 7/16 studs as well, that's a non wear part, and I got my guide plates and pushrods used as well. I would do NSA for the room to grow, same on 7/16, your springs chosen leave room to grow so might as well keep that philosophy going, and you won't have any worries while spinning it to 6500 which you will want to do on either cam. I would personally skip the lifters if yours are ok, too many horror stories on the ls7s. I would do 0.026 head gaskets while the motor is out though. Timing set you could get a new cam sprocket and chain on rock auto for cheap, and a GM white spring for the pump.
Last edited by bufmatmuslepants; 01-06-2016 at 05:44 AM.
01-06-2016, 06:31 PM
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Outlaw
Both off the shelf cams have +/- over the other. A "custom" cam by someone like Lloyd Elliott for stock heads will be better than either off the shelf cam and only cost about $50 more
If you are building "in steps" and will later get LEx heads, etc., than do the 7/16" RR studs as I said earlier. Cost is same.
LE uses that Lunati spring kit on his LE2 heads so if you had those now you just transfer to the new LE heads when you get those
There is no difference in lashing valves on SA or NSA RR. You will need guide plates and hardened PR for NSA. Something you would want for a LE2 H/C package so investing in 1:6 RR and thinking future mods.....get NSA now. If just staying 503 or simple cam & stock heads SA are OK.
The valve cover mod is simple and takes just minutes with a dermal. I know Crane Gold "narrow body" 1:6 RR clear stock VC with no baffle triming
Both off the shelf cams have +/- over the other. A "custom" cam by someone like Lloyd Elliott for stock heads will be better than either off the shelf cam and only cost about $50 more
If you are building "in steps" and will later get LEx heads, etc., than do the 7/16" RR studs as I said earlier. Cost is same.
LE uses that Lunati spring kit on his LE2 heads so if you had those now you just transfer to the new LE heads when you get those
There is no difference in lashing valves on SA or NSA RR. You will need guide plates and hardened PR for NSA. Something you would want for a LE2 H/C package so investing in 1:6 RR and thinking future mods.....get NSA now. If just staying 503 or simple cam & stock heads SA are OK.
The valve cover mod is simple and takes just minutes with a dermal. I know Crane Gold "narrow body" 1:6 RR clear stock VC with no baffle triming
My opinion is go with the cc503 as you'll have a better shot at a dead on mail order tune since its so common, the Lunati is less common and that's cool to be different if you go that route but I'd do the 503 for ease of getting a mail order tune. The springs are a perfect choice.
For rockers, I'd cut the baffles out of your valve covers anyways for ease of installation and removal in the car, regardless of rocker choice. Then personally since you are on a budget and its winter and you have 2 months until driving weather anyways I'd shop around for used low mile ones, be it crower, pro or ultra pro mags, crane golds, scorpions, whatever, and a 7/16 stud NSA. Find used 7/16 studs as well, that's a non wear part, and I got my guide plates and pushrods used as well. I would do NSA for the room to grow, same on 7/16, your springs chosen leave room to grow so might as well keep that philosophy going, and you won't have any worries while spinning it to 6500 which you will want to do on either cam. I would personally skip the lifters if yours are ok, too many horror stories on the ls7s. I would do 0.026 head gaskets while the motor is out though. Timing set you could get a new cam sprocket and chain on rock auto for cheap, and a GM white spring for the pump.
For rockers, I'd cut the baffles out of your valve covers anyways for ease of installation and removal in the car, regardless of rocker choice. Then personally since you are on a budget and its winter and you have 2 months until driving weather anyways I'd shop around for used low mile ones, be it crower, pro or ultra pro mags, crane golds, scorpions, whatever, and a 7/16 stud NSA. Find used 7/16 studs as well, that's a non wear part, and I got my guide plates and pushrods used as well. I would do NSA for the room to grow, same on 7/16, your springs chosen leave room to grow so might as well keep that philosophy going, and you won't have any worries while spinning it to 6500 which you will want to do on either cam. I would personally skip the lifters if yours are ok, too many horror stories on the ls7s. I would do 0.026 head gaskets while the motor is out though. Timing set you could get a new cam sprocket and chain on rock auto for cheap, and a GM white spring for the pump.
That's what I'm starting to think about getting the tune easier. I'll look around for and see what I can't find online. I will be going 7/16 studs though since they're the same price and I can use them later. Same with the rockers and guide plates they can be reused later. My lifters are already LS7 I had a stock get messed up so I just replaced them all they've probably got 3000 miles on them. Would it be safe to clean them and reuse them if they look good. Also why shouldn't I use ls7 lifters I've read nothing but great reviews on them but I haven't looked to much really.i was thinking just get a new timing set from Advance Auto.
My engine is still in the car with the heads on, but all the covers are off. What is a GM white spring and why should I get one? I'm assuming you're referring to the oil pump.
01-07-2016, 11:02 AM
#14
if you have LS7 lifters already in the motor, use them
The GM white spring is for the oil pump. You will need to drop the pan to replace it. Also get a ARP oil pump drive shaft. The stock one has a plastic collar on it which when old becomes brittle and can crack/break when removing/re-installing it
The GM white spring is for the oil pump. You will need to drop the pan to replace it. Also get a ARP oil pump drive shaft. The stock one has a plastic collar on it which when old becomes brittle and can crack/break when removing/re-installing it
01-07-2016, 11:15 PM
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if you have LS7 lifters already in the motor, use them
The GM white spring is for the oil pump. You will need to drop the pan to replace it. Also get a ARP oil pump drive shaft. The stock one has a plastic collar on it which when old becomes brittle and can crack/break when removing/re-installing it
The GM white spring is for the oil pump. You will need to drop the pan to replace it. Also get a ARP oil pump drive shaft. The stock one has a plastic collar on it which when old becomes brittle and can crack/break when removing/re-installing it
Decided in the cc503 guys thanks for the input and opinions guys. You can keep them coming if you want.
01-08-2016, 11:38 AM
#16
not higher flow or volume...it is for higher "pressure"
High "volume" oil pumps have their place but not on stock motors with stock bearing clearances
Just get the GM white spring for your stock oil pump if anything at all. Do get the ARP solid steel oil pump drive shaft regardless.
AND be very careful on the TQ of the small bolt that holds on the oil pump drive gear. IIRC 7 ft lbs...if that or you WILL crack/break what will be old aged plastic cap of the drive gear
High "volume" oil pumps have their place but not on stock motors with stock bearing clearances
Just get the GM white spring for your stock oil pump if anything at all. Do get the ARP solid steel oil pump drive shaft regardless.
AND be very careful on the TQ of the small bolt that holds on the oil pump drive gear. IIRC 7 ft lbs...if that or you WILL crack/break what will be old aged plastic cap of the drive gear
01-09-2016, 10:25 AM
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not higher flow or volume...it is for higher "pressure"
High "volume" oil pumps have their place but not on stock motors with stock bearing clearances
Just get the GM white spring for your stock oil pump if anything at all. Do get the ARP solid steel oil pump drive shaft regardless.
AND be very careful on the TQ of the small bolt that holds on the oil pump drive gear. IIRC 7 ft lbs...if that or you WILL crack/break what will be old aged plastic cap of the drive gear
High "volume" oil pumps have their place but not on stock motors with stock bearing clearances
Just get the GM white spring for your stock oil pump if anything at all. Do get the ARP solid steel oil pump drive shaft regardless.
AND be very careful on the TQ of the small bolt that holds on the oil pump drive gear. IIRC 7 ft lbs...if that or you WILL crack/break what will be old aged plastic cap of the drive gear
I'll definitely check the torque spec on the bolts. Should I pick up a replacement oil pump from a parts store or just leave mine alone and replace the spring and the drive shaft?
The cam I was wanting for his heads would probably be to big for my stock setup. I was looking at bigger cams originally in a different thread but was told they were too big for stock heads.
01-09-2016, 11:10 AM
#19
Outlaw
just keep your stock oil pump and if you want, replace the spring with the GM white one.
do a google search for part # or maybe someone will post.
some have even just stretched the stock one 1/4" longer.....IMO given you have to take the spring out...just buy a new GM white one as they are not much $
just keep your stock oil pump and if you want, replace the spring with the GM white one.
do a google search for part # or maybe someone will post.
some have even just stretched the stock one 1/4" longer.....IMO given you have to take the spring out...just buy a new GM white one as they are not much $