spring on brand new heads blew
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
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spring on brand new heads blew So awhile back I posted about how I had something wrong after a head install and coolant leaked into the motor. Finally got around to pulling the valve cover off and this is what I find on the driver side.
imgur.com/a/uahdx
The heads were brand new right from Lloyd Elliot. So who is liable here? Did I do something wrong or did I get a bad part? Valve lash should have been set correctly at a 1/2 turn past 0 lash
Pictures of rocker arm and spring http://imgur.com/a/KK2xQ
Picture of tested pushrod length of 7.150 http://imgur.com/a/ZdPfb
no pushrod on very last valve driver side http://imgur.com/a/bVyec
imgur.com/a/uahdx
The heads were brand new right from Lloyd Elliot. So who is liable here? Did I do something wrong or did I get a bad part? Valve lash should have been set correctly at a 1/2 turn past 0 lash
Pictures of rocker arm and spring http://imgur.com/a/KK2xQ
Picture of tested pushrod length of 7.150 http://imgur.com/a/ZdPfb
no pushrod on very last valve driver side http://imgur.com/a/bVyec
Last edited by LT1Bird97; Jan 17, 2017 at 12:06 PM.
Is the spring physically damaged? Its hard to tell from that pic whether the spring is at fault, the keepers popped off, or the SA rocker arm jumped the valve stem and hammered the spring.
I'm sure LE installed the correct parts and at the correct heights - hes done a million of our heads. Did you measure your PR length with a tool? Lash set with a solid lifter?
If I had to guess, I would say that it is likely the PR length was not correct causing the SA rocker to bounce off the guide and beat up the spring, knocking the keepers off the valve stem and beating it up.
I had a COMP OEM lifter grenade and caused that valves SA rocker arm to pump the guide, but luckily the keepers stayed on and the spring was fine - just needed a new lifter and rocker arm.
I'm sure LE installed the correct parts and at the correct heights - hes done a million of our heads. Did you measure your PR length with a tool? Lash set with a solid lifter?
If I had to guess, I would say that it is likely the PR length was not correct causing the SA rocker to bounce off the guide and beat up the spring, knocking the keepers off the valve stem and beating it up.
I had a COMP OEM lifter grenade and caused that valves SA rocker arm to pump the guide, but luckily the keepers stayed on and the spring was fine - just needed a new lifter and rocker arm.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
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I went with a 7.150 pushrod. Used a length checker tool and it looked the best.
So what now? I had a lot of coolant go into the block from this and theres metal shavings in the oil from the rocker.
Added pictures of whats left of whatever was holding the spring down
So what now? I had a lot of coolant go into the block from this and theres metal shavings in the oil from the rocker.
Added pictures of whats left of whatever was holding the spring down
Why are the locks so deep? Does this have something to do with SA rockers? All poly locks I've ever adjusted the lock was almost flush with the nut, but those are on NSA rockers. If you did the install then you're the one responsible. The coolant in the motor could be a result of a bad head gasket, heads not properly torqued causing heads to warp, or heads were already warped before installing them. Can't really prove anything at this point. Also, the tip of the valve on the broken spring one looks beat to ****.
Sorry to see this man. Wish I could offer some advice but I'm gearing up for my 1st heads/cam swap and am a bit of a noob. I do appreciate you sharing what can happen when something goes wrong. Very motivating for me to be very detailed. I hope you get to the bottom of it and able to get it resolved with minimal expense. Good luck.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
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Added a few more pics of the valve tips in the main album. I cant tell you why the locks are deep. I set the valve lash at a 1/2 turn past 0 last and then tighten down the locks on them all. So coolant in motor is not from this spring and something else?
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
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Had the opti off and followed SHBOX method #1. Set 0 lash by spinning the pushrod method.
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Rotate the crank one revolution until the pointer is again at 12 o'clock. This will let you adjust the remainder of the valves. If you did #1 the previous time, you should be now at #6 TDC.
When at #6 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Rotate the crank one revolution until the pointer is again at 12 o'clock. This will let you adjust the remainder of the valves. If you did #1 the previous time, you should be now at #6 TDC.
When at #6 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
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Hopefully he helps you out if it was a failure on his end.
All I was offered when my heads were damaged was parts for cost. Load of bs .
Spend north of $1000 and end up with heads that needed most of the seats remachined and needed all the valve stems replaced due to excessive wear and play.
All I was offered when my heads were damaged was parts for cost. Load of bs .
Spend north of $1000 and end up with heads that needed most of the seats remachined and needed all the valve stems replaced due to excessive wear and play.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 97
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Why are the locks so deep? Does this have something to do with SA rockers? All poly locks I've ever adjusted the lock was almost flush with the nut, but those are on NSA rockers. If you did the install then you're the one responsible. The coolant in the motor could be a result of a bad head gasket, heads not properly torqued causing heads to warp, or heads were already warped before installing them. Can't really prove anything at this point. Also, the tip of the valve on the broken spring one looks beat to ****.
Hopefully he helps you out if it was a failure on his end.
All I was offered when my heads were damaged was parts for cost. Load of bs .
Spend north of $1000 and end up with heads that needed most of the seats remachined and needed all the valve stems replaced due to excessive wear and play.
All I was offered when my heads were damaged was parts for cost. Load of bs .
Spend north of $1000 and end up with heads that needed most of the seats remachined and needed all the valve stems replaced due to excessive wear and play.
My theory would be that the SA rocker jumped the valve tip and rotated just enough that when the pushrod came back up, it hit the bottom edge of the rocker and pivoted it down, but this time it didn't push the valve tip it pushed the outer edge of the spring. Pushing down on the spring and not the valve, with pressure under the valve from pressure still in the cylinder, caused the spring to compress without the valve, dislodging the locks, and when the rocker retracted back, the spring released from the valve and shot up, separating the inner and outer spring.
In short, don't trust SA rockers, and this isn't Lloyds fault. There have been lots of cases where SA rockers jumped the tip of the valve, it just looks like in your case instead of the rocker spinning a full 90 degrees out of the way and shooting the pushrod through your valvecover, it only spun about 20 degrees and compressed your spring edge without the valve.
Any pics of the underside of the rocker, specifically the pushrod side? There may be a witness mark from the pushrod. Also on the spring look at the tip edge for a mark where the rocker may have pushed on it.
Another theory going on SSRRR's comment, if the locks are really low, the ears of the rocker could have been pushing on the spring or locks the whole time, making the locks loose every time it compressed.
In short, don't trust SA rockers, and this isn't Lloyds fault. There have been lots of cases where SA rockers jumped the tip of the valve, it just looks like in your case instead of the rocker spinning a full 90 degrees out of the way and shooting the pushrod through your valvecover, it only spun about 20 degrees and compressed your spring edge without the valve.
Any pics of the underside of the rocker, specifically the pushrod side? There may be a witness mark from the pushrod. Also on the spring look at the tip edge for a mark where the rocker may have pushed on it.
Another theory going on SSRRR's comment, if the locks are really low, the ears of the rocker could have been pushing on the spring or locks the whole time, making the locks loose every time it compressed.
Last edited by bufmatmuslepants; Jan 17, 2017 at 06:00 AM.
Agree, Loyd just sets up the head, installing the push rods, rockers and locks is on the installer, you might of just missed on that one, or did you over rev at a high RPM and hit the rev limiter, few factors could cause this but not the head builder..
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From: Murica
I hate the self adjusting rockers, there junk. Had a couple on my original setup almost jump off from seeing some rpm, chewed up the washers or whatever you call them that keep them on the valve.
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OP
when you installed the RR was the "flat" side of the trunion facing up?
can't really see in the pics
and if you found zero lash by spinning the PR until you felt resistance...you pasted zero lash a mile ago. Use the "no more up/down movement" method
if lash was to tight and lifter was compressed than something had to give
when you installed the RR was the "flat" side of the trunion facing up?
can't really see in the pics
and if you found zero lash by spinning the PR until you felt resistance...you pasted zero lash a mile ago. Use the "no more up/down movement" method
if lash was to tight and lifter was compressed than something had to give
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 97
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Here is some pictures of the rocker arm and both sides of the springs
http://imgur.com/a/KK2xQ
So looks like I fucked up the rocker/pushrod install then? Good job me......
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 97
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OP
when you installed the RR was the "flat" side of the trunion facing up?
can't really see in the pics
and if you found zero lash by spinning the PR until you felt resistance...you pasted zero lash a mile ago. Use the "no more up/down movement" method
if lash was to tight and lifter was compressed than something had to give
when you installed the RR was the "flat" side of the trunion facing up?
can't really see in the pics
and if you found zero lash by spinning the PR until you felt resistance...you pasted zero lash a mile ago. Use the "no more up/down movement" method
if lash was to tight and lifter was compressed than something had to give
Found the pics of the pushrod install, here is how the sweep looked when I tested different lengths. This 7.150 looked the closest to me http://imgur.com/a/ZdPfb
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The "flat" side is what the poly lock contacts. If you put the RR on "upside down" in terms of the trunion shaft than the poly locks would sit really high. Your pic the inner lock (alan head)looks very deep into the poly lock vs closer to the top. You got a good witness mark on the valve tip though and 7.150 is a very common PR length with milled heads so likely you did that part right...just more an observation on how deep the alan locks are on the Pol nuts in pics....unless those poly nuts are backed off quite a bit
in your last round f pics it sure appears the RR poped off the PR which then made the RR at an angle slamming onto the retainer pushing it down, locks come off valve...and you get what you have
IDK if that valve stem (tip) is salvageable or even if it bent the valve so your heads may need to come off for a new valve.
some metal does appear to have gotten into the bottom end...maybe a few oil changes back to back will get that out and not real damage to bearings.
I would get NSA RR and guide plates
in your last round f pics it sure appears the RR poped off the PR which then made the RR at an angle slamming onto the retainer pushing it down, locks come off valve...and you get what you have
IDK if that valve stem (tip) is salvageable or even if it bent the valve so your heads may need to come off for a new valve.
some metal does appear to have gotten into the bottom end...maybe a few oil changes back to back will get that out and not real damage to bearings.
I would get NSA RR and guide plates
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
The "flat" side is what the poly lock contacts. If you put the RR on "upside down" in terms of the trunion shaft than the poly locks would sit really high. Your pic the inner lock (alan head)looks very deep into the poly lock vs closer to the top. You got a good witness mark on the valve tip though and 7.150 is a very common PR length with milled heads so likely you did that part right...just more an observation on how deep the alan locks are on the Pol nuts in pics....unless those poly nuts are backed off quite a bit
in your last round f pics it sure appears the RR poped off the PR which then made the RR at an angle slamming onto the retainer pushing it down, locks come off valve...and you get what you have
IDK if that valve stem (tip) is salvageable or even if it bent the valve so your heads may need to come off for a new valve.
some metal does appear to have gotten into the bottom end...maybe a few oil changes back to back will get that out and not real damage to bearings.
I would get NSA RR and guide plates
in your last round f pics it sure appears the RR poped off the PR which then made the RR at an angle slamming onto the retainer pushing it down, locks come off valve...and you get what you have
IDK if that valve stem (tip) is salvageable or even if it bent the valve so your heads may need to come off for a new valve.
some metal does appear to have gotten into the bottom end...maybe a few oil changes back to back will get that out and not real damage to bearings.
I would get NSA RR and guide plates
Could this have led to the spring coming apart? Or did i completely **** up the rocker and pushrod install
http://imgur.com/a/bVyec
Last edited by LT1Bird97; Jan 17, 2017 at 12:05 PM.
SA roller rockers shouldnt pop off unless you are reving past 6400rpm. How much cam lift? Also the rocker nut could of loosened causing the pushrod to bang into it. Did you check valve lash after the first few heat cycles?