96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

So after some thinking I am going to dig my car back out. Looks like my daily driver project is going away and would leave me with $1500. So looking for some opinions on the current set of options.

Idea #1

Car currently has a pull a part find 385 stroker. However it has not run right and does have an oil pressure problem. If you want a quick read go here.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...ard-today.html

Anyways that engine would need to be torn down. I have my cars original block that has been setup for an arp stud kit. So would need to bore it out from .030 over to .040 for the pistons that are in the current 385. I do not trust the 385 block so it would be going into the trash. Using my old block would allow a windage tray and it also did not have any oil pressure problems. This should solve the oil pressure problems.

So this would mean engine rebuild. Biggest problem is the tune. Car was an auto and the tune was garbage. Not just bad its horrible. Lets just say 5 gallons of gas was gone in 12 miles or less. So would need something to break in the car. Could get a pcm mail order tune and go from there. Granted I hate the cars current cam. Might go smaller. Could just be a call to lloyd elliot as its his current cam in the car.

Current cam specs --Lloyd Elliott LE2.2 cam @.050 236/236 W/1.6 Rockers .600/.600 Lobe Sep 107.

However in the years I have had the car. I have had zero luck with a cammed car. They drove awful even on a hotcam or cc503. Tunes were trash even being from pcm for less and the car actually felt slower than when it was in bolt on trim. Afr was off and they never ran long enough for me to get them to fix it. Mostly super lean while driving. Wide band used to peg out at over 18:1 while driving. WOT was ok but never felt right. That brings next idea up.

Idea #2

I now have access to a dealers license. A few lt1 cars are floating around copart and iaai. SC and TN require one for wrecks while GA and NC do not. One idea would be to buy a 100k good running car that has been wrecked. Few options out there including a couple t-56 cars. Auto would go cheaper but might be able to score a t-56 in budget. Would go see and hear it run in person. Make sure oil pressure is good. A few of the cars are rear hits. One I think would drive home even being an auto. Would probably tow home just to be safe but you get the idea.

Plan would be get a car home take the engine out. Part the rest. Give it 3-4 weeks cut it up and take it to scrap. T-56 car would help the cause as those prices have gone crazy in the last little bit. So could help the refund budget on the part out side of things. However I would want to hear the car run. Only downside are most are 95 cars. So would need to find an OBD2 timing cover that is not attached to my 385. Would probably run the ecu out of the wrecked car. But would like to keep it OBD2 if possible. Car is OBD1 right now so not to worried about it. Can always swap covers or find one. Not end of the world problem.

I like this idea. My car has really been down since 2009. Its been running on and off but never good enough to keep on the road. Put a stock engine back in and be happy. At least be able to drive the car again. Keep the 385 to the side and rebuild it for later on.

Idea #3

This one is from friends of mine who think I am crazy for holding out on lt1 stuff. They say buy a good wreck granted would need more than the $1500 as those still bring $2500+ at auction. Convert my t-56 to a ls1 style and swap everything over.

Not a bad idea but I see this getting expensive very quick. LS stuff is expensive and if that engine needs a rebuild parts get expensive really quick.

Not the biggest fan of this option but it has come on the list.



So there are a few ideas. If it was your build what would you do. I am between #1 and #2. Ls is kinda out unless I found a good LS car cheap. Not going truck engine as that takes everything from a ls1 car anyways.

As for the cars plan. Doubt it will ever be back at a drag strip ever again. Last time was 2009 when the car blew up. Have not even taken other cars. Its fun but 1/4 mile gets boring fast. 1/8 mile is fun but doubt I would go for more than a test and tune. I have thought about making it into an autocross car. Cam-C could be lots of fun. Car is close to weight and with a few other suspension mods the car could be pretty good.

So what would you guys do.

LT1Bird97

Im pretty much in the same boat as you. About to pull my lt1. Lt1 stuff is cheap and as everyone is ditching their stuff there are always quite a few stock engines on craigslist if my block is no good. Hoping i can just freshen up a block with new bearings and arp stuff and throw my le1 heads on top. Obviously this will be the cheapest and easiest. However those lq4 6.0 motors are pretty cheap and are what already 400hp stock. Might have to hunt around for one of those if you wanna get rid of the lt1 stuff

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Yeah Ls1 stuff gets expensive. Even if I grab a $500 engine I need car accessory drive, k member, rack and pinion, car intake manifold. After a while it starts to get expensive. Almost worth just starting with the car stuff. Lq4 start around 350hp. But cam change can fix that but then its getting more expensive. Ls aftermarket is there but it is still expensive.

Still debating decisions.

Flycaster1977

how much do you miss driving it? If you were happy with just bolt ons and whatnot, maybe just go back to that kind of setup and enjoy driving the car.

Ive always been a fan of the lt1 and im putting one together now to swap into a third gen. Im trying to keep it somewhat civilized so i can just take the car out and have fun with it.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Really don't miss it at all. I have tried to sell the car with no success. The only thing keeping it around is its my first car. Will be the car 10 years after I sell it that you wish you had back. About the only time I kinda miss it is when I go drive a bigger horse power car. Usually happens when I get keys to fun things like my buddies C5 Z06 or even the Frankenstang( 01 mustang with a 4.3 v6 with a m112 supercharger). Even I get happy when I take my brothers 95 Lt1 camaro. But these happen a few times a year. Otherwise I do not miss it. I even walk by it every day as I park next to it. It would be nice to have a car with power again but its not needed. I have been driving 4 cylinder cars since 2009 or when the turd blew up. Shoot the last 5.5 years my only running car is a 2001 Miata.

As for the F-body I always wanted a third gen. I ended up with a 4th gen as even back in 2008 finding a good third gen was hard, especially with a stick shift. The reason I ended up with a Firebird was I was driving my parents 96 Caprice. They said if you want a stick shift go buy one...so I did. Ended up going with a Lt1 car as the price was right. Granted I wanted a Green Z28 or SS Camaro with black interior. Ended up with a White Firebid Formula. At least it had the black interior and a stick shift.

aroberson77

If you have a good machine shop in your area go for the rebuild, otherwise cheapest route would be to find a running LT1 on craigslist or go to Copart. I am rebuilding my LT1 in my RX7, LS motors are cheap but it will cost some money like you said to get the proper accessories, mounts, oil pan, transmission parts.

StealthFormula

iTrader: (35)

Tough call. After what you've been through with the car I'd sell it and move on but I see you haven't had luck trying to unload it so with that option aside I think I like option #1 the best. Yeah the LS stuff is better, it is in several ways but that's going to get expensive and be more labor intensive and I don't think it will really benefit you much in the end based upon your intended use. I'd take your good block, have the machine work done and throw whatever good parts you have left from that 385 into it. You could sell the current cam on here and get a smaller one for it pretty easily. It just seems like the simplest approach. The second option isn't terrible but parting out cars is (atleast IMO). Dealing with the people, all the work involved etc., if you have the time and desire then okay but not everyone does. Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

StoneColdLT1

iTrader: (8)

Everyone loves to say "LS swap it" but most don't know what actually goes into it. Unless you get a good deal on a wrecked LS car with EVERYTHING you need to do it and do it properly, it's going to nickel and dime you and come out with a mishmash of parts from this and that. Not to mention, I know a guy back in my hometown who has a black formula like mine who bought the car with an LQ4 already swapped in it and he has expressed his displeasure whenever there's an issue, especially electrical, as he doesn't know where to start because he doesn't know what the previous owner did. Point being is when it comes to newer cars likes these, an engine swap, even if it's an LS, is a turn off IMO.

If I was in your shoes, I'd find a good running LT1 to get the car on the road, I don't like projects to sit for long and if you can't enjoy them periodically it's easy to lose interest. A lot of times when I'm under my car busting my a** I'm asking myself why I bought this thing, but when I get it out on the road for a cruise, it makes it all feel worth it.

Then I'd get another LT1 motor and build it from the ground up your way. I have the original LT1 in my car now so I can enjoy it, and another LT1 on the stand that I'm building a 383 from. When that's all done and ready to go in, all I need to do is drop the subframe, swap the motor, put it all back together, and get a tune. That way there isn't much down time with the car off the road.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Yeah not real good machine shops anymore. The one that can do block work will never get another penny of my business. They took 12 weeks (they said 2) to make a short block and it failed in 137 miles. Napa is ok but they no longer do half the work. They are older guys and the machines keep breaking so they sell it off. I figure they will retire in the next 5-10 years tops. Nobody there to replace them. They mostly do head work now days. Not the block stuff. So would need to find someone to do that.

Yeah the cam change is easy. Sell the old one as long as it was not damaged. Call lloyd elliot up and order something from him. Easy to do. I wish the car had sold years ago. I had a buyer send me a picture of a truck and a rented trailer Friday night. He was supposed to show Saturday morning. Never herd from him again. Have had many buyers like that.

As for the parting out. I will buy a miata every once in a while and part it out. Heck when I was not working it helped pay the bills. Even getting one on the side makes a few extra bucks. So I have the space. My theory price kinda low and sell sell sell.

Could part this car. But I think I would rather have someone come buy it all for a good price. Then I don't have the emotional attachment of parting out my first car.


This one has sat for a long time. Been 1.5 years since I last touched it. But yeah this project always breaks your spirit. Fix something and something else breaks. Before the 385 I had a nice cc503 build. Ran great for 300 miles. Then it decided to blow a head gasket and hydro lock while it sat overnight. There is a reason is no longer called the firebird, we just call it the turd. Cause it always ***** on you.

The reason behind buying a running wreck is that even years ago the good old Firebird let me down with a "good engine" decided to fail. Tear down showed a .030 rebuild that was horrible. Think that one made it 650 miles before its oil pressure dropped to 5psi at warm idle. That and the blow by was horrible. So if I am getting a used engine for this car. I want to hear it run in the old car before I install it into mine.

aroberson77

I definitely hear you on making sure the engine runs before you put it in. Have you ever thought of putting a v8 in a miata?? I am sure you have.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Haha have and will not do it. No way to get enough tire under it. 245/40/15 is not enough. Granted some of these $1000 blown up Rx-8....those have been catching my eye. Can shove 275 with ease under them. If I was going to V8 swap something it would be an Rx-8. I always loved the styling and the back seat idea. Plus I fit in one. I fit in a miata ok but a fc or fd rx7 is a very tight squeeze. One floating around here. 3000lbs wet with 295s under it. Would make a very fun dd as it gets 20/28mpg. 4.30 rear end hurts some.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well the used car market might be good. To bad the car got sent threw early. Watched a 95 z28 t-56 car with 126k go threw for $800. After fees looking around $1200. Easy to make that back in the t-56 alone. Would have been a free engine after some other parts being sold.

However a few buddies are saying try the 385. Split decisions.

aroberson77

Lol my FB rx7 has 195s on it. Swapped rx8s are cool, hard to do though with the electronics and mounts

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I'd go with option 2 but I'd get a LT1 off Craigslist for $400 and use that and just get it on the road ASAP. One thing I've found is th farther my car is from driveable, the easier it is to lose interest. I always try to keep it a day away from the road, like I won't tear the drivetrain out and take the front end off then let it sit, I have to leave it close to being able to drive.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Not many Lt1 on the craigslist here. The few that do show up people want crazy money for them. Usually b-body ones as well. I am iffy on craigslist engines as the last one burned me. It was $800 not $400. Granted today I came across this.



1994 Camaro Z28 on the local pick and pull yard. Looks to have been a wreck in the front. Ok shape and had a new rad so looks like it has been somewhat cared for. Few things missing like the water pump and accessory bracket. Could be mine for $400 out the door with a 30 day warranty. I could run it as a non vented opti. I think my stock camshaft is around here somewhere. I could swap it over to a vented opti and use my new water pump and opti spark.Car had just under 114k miles. Oil smelled clean.

Link to its copart ad

https://www.copart.com/lot/41504026/

So this could be the donor I am looking for. Get the car running and driving and look into the 385 when I have time. Half the reason I am looking to get the car going again is the rust issue. Brother needed my spare alternator which turned out to be bad. Anyways I pulled the t-tops to find this.



Car has been sitting for 1.5 years. More since the last time the t-tops were off. I can see light water damage on the top of the windshield. Buddy says this is a bad glass install. Car was wrecked in 2002 when it hit a deer. Could have had one after that but who knows. It has not had one since April 2008. This needs to be taken care off asap. But kinda hard when the car sits out side. Need to get it to a garage and get the glass out to fix this. Could treat what I see now but without getting to the root of the problem nothing is going to change. So this is why I got in the mood to get the car running. As body work on a car that is not going to move is worthless. Even if it saves the roof line area.

aroberson77

400 for that motor seems fair. I think that rust cn be fixed pretty easily.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well going to pull the motor next Sunday. Figure I can tear it down after work and see what went wrong with this pos. I figure with the run time with no oil pressure in parts of the engine that the pistons, camshaft, lifters, rods and crank might all be trash. Guess we get to find out.

Heatmaker

Cool, take your time.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well been a while and the car has just sat. Went to get into it and the door locks had seized up. Got those loose but man its looking sad. Worst part the rust is growing very fast. At this point it might just become a parts car. Really need to start working on it or just part it out and scrap it. Have not touched it since Decemeber 2015.

Looking Pretty Sad

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

How is the interior? Where's the rust? Exterior wise, seems all it needs is a good wash?
If you are trying to talk yourself out of doing anything with it, you probably should leave well enough alone and sell it. Worst thing that can happen is you be ***** deep into it and lose interest along with a pile of money.