ACE1252

I went to the track with the addition of an MGW shifter and was not pleased with the car's performance. I think the shifter is adding time to my shifting, but weather, track condition, and all that kind of stuff can cover up what is really happening.

So, I got to looking through some of my timeslips this weekend after being disappointed with the times. Several of them were fading to being almost not readable, so I got the bright idea that I would put all my timeslip data into excel.

Well, 7 hours later I'm finally done. All my track runs from 2000 until 2017. 183 total 1/8th mile passes. I also put my opponent data as well. This data is also classified by mod lists.

List1

• CAI
• Catback exhaust

List2

• CAI
• Catback exhaust
  
• 1.6 NSA roller rockers
• CC503 Cam
• PCM Mail order tune

List3

• CAI
• Catback exhaust
• 1.6 NSA roller rockers
• CC503 Cam
• PCM Mail order tune
  
• Kooks long tube headers and cat'd Y pipe.

List4

• CAI
• Catback exhaust
• 1.6 NSA roller rockers
• CC503 Cam
• PCM Mail order tune
• Kooks long tube headers and cat'd Y pipe
  
• MGW Shifter

Just playing around with the data in RapidMiner(statistical software) it's interesting to look at the scatter plots and such.

If you look at pic below, you can see the MPH performance of the car by run number and by mod list. The one thing you can't see is the date of the run numbers. The run number is from oldest to newest. So...run 1 was from 2000, while 183 was just this weekend. If you look at the trend, you can see the MPH climb as I learned how to drive the car at the track from runs 1-40.

Now, between runs 41 and 42, there was a four year gap where I did no mods to the car and it was a daily driver. So run 43 is in 2008 when I decide to benchmark the car before the CC503 and 1.6 NSA rocker arm install. The engine has about 90K on it at that point.

You can clearly see that time has taken it's toll on the engine. The other factor is that the track was different...which could play into the MPH shift, but I think the valve springs were to blame for this shift in MPH shift. It's cool how you can see it though....

List2(late 2008) mods were the 1.6 NSA rockers, CC503 cam and nothing else. List3(early 2011)was where I added canton oil pickup, moroso oil pan, Kooks headers,catted y-pipe(which caused a huge jump in MPH). List4(early 2017) was the addition of the MGW shifter.

Just interesting to see this data presented in such a fashion if you have time to throw it into a spreadsheet. I look at this type stuff all the time at work, but I'd just never wanted to take the time to throw all the timeslips into excel.

I'm not the world's foremost authority on statistics, but if you know how to use them, they are pretty powerful when trying to figure out what might be going on with a process(in this case track times).

I'll also post the time chart as well. Interestingly, the time is kinda average, so I may be dealing with weather conditions causing me grief.

Looking from runs 80 to 100 in the time chart shows a slight trend upward in time. Makes me think the valve springs may have lost some pressure and settled in around run 100. During this time was when I figure out my oil pressure issues and was twisting it up into the 6300rpm range. You can also see the slight trend of the MPH down during runs 80-100.

I'm on the fence about keeping this shifter in the car. I need to get more than 4 passes in before pulling the plug on it, but just thought I'd share since this is a 17 year look of the car's performance....and yeah, that 77.5mph point on list4 is where I missed 2nd to 3rd. However, I've quickly learned to just use the palm of your hand(pressing up to 3rd) when going from 2nd to 3rd with this shifter.

Hehe, it's what my wife would call "nerd" stuff.

Track MPH by run and mod list


Track Time by run and mod list

Badazz 97 TA

iTrader: (18)

How long have you had the shifter? It took mine atleast 1,000 miles before it "loosened" up some and became tolerable. It was a very stiff shifter so i could believe it. I have about 5,000 miles on it and now and its a ton better.

Im definitaly not trying to defend the shifter but i would say give it some more time. It could also be your getting old too! Haha lol just playing

ACE1252

I believe I have jumped the gun on thinking it's valve springs(ie jumping to conclusions....which is totally what I don't want to do...). When you look at the spikes in the MPH. Around runs 80-90, 150, 175, all of those runs were in the months of Feb/March. So, may be looking at weather conditions as to when this thing really moves it's best.

ACE1252

LoL, I do kinda feel like yelling get off my lawn to the kids in the neighborhood, so there might be something to the old thing.

I've had it just since Christmas and I haven't driven the car all that much. It has been getting better the more I drive it. I'm just not sure I'm going to keep it. I think I like the placement of the stocker better. I'm finding myself hitting the stereo buttons constantly when reaching for the shifter as it's location has moved forward.

The thing that prompted me to get it is that I've been smacking the gate between 2nd and 3rd every now and again lately. I thought it was a shifter centering spring issue, but it might be a gate guide issue too(the gate in the trans).

I need to do more testing with it.

ACE1252

Here is a zoomed in look at mod list 3 and 4 by date. In Feb/March, the MPH does spike. The MPH does hang between 86 and 87 the rest of the time, but I've always been able to tag 87 during most track outings. This time, the car ran barely around 86 on two runs. Hit 86.5 on one and then the missed shift which caused the 77.5. Surprisingly, still hit 8.6 on the missed shift run.

It does seem to be on the lower end of the speed scale now.....I'll take a quick look at the time by date next.

ACE1252

Time seems to be about average, maybe just a bit better than average. I wonder if it could be trading MPH for better consistency on the time with the shifter? There have been many days that I could not run better than 8.6, but the MPH was always smacking around 87. For 2 of the 4 runs I hit 8.5 and am sure the missed shift would have been at least 8.5. Got to do more testing for sure.

I guess I'm focused on the MPH as a function of HP...of which it is, but I may be too focused on it. I saw the drop in MPH and went OMG!!! However....the times look to be telling me a better than average story so far.

StealthFormula

iTrader: (35)

FWIW, I have an MGW shifter in my C5Z. I wasn't a huge fan of it at first and it took a good bit of time until it broke in nicely but once it did I never looked back. Also, I found that different shift ***** make that shifter feel and operate pretty different. The traditional 8-ball style **** didn't give me the amount of control I wanted over it and once I ditched that for the MGW race **** which is more cylindrical shaped and a tad heavier I fell in love with the shifter all over again. Not sure what **** you have now but something like I have will move your knuckles back a tad more than an 8-ball style will. I say give it some more time and see what you think in 6 months/1000 miles from now.

ACE1252

I agree on the ball type shifter *****. I've got an SLP shifter **** on it now which I've always really liked.


Digging more into the data....I need to throw out the outliers to get a more real average of what my times are....just looking at the chart...I'm going to pitch out everything above 9.0. That now gives me an average ET of 8.6246. So I've now got a couple of runs each above and below the average with the new shifter. This list4 data is "bi-modal", but with only 4 runs...just not enough samples. Here is the data with the outlier times thrown out. I also pitched in the MPH chart...looks like I may need to get rid of the runs with MPH below 85 to tighten up the MPH average. I think once I do that, it will show the MPH with this shifter to be lower with the samples I have right now.

ACE1252

So here are the final ET and MPH average numbers for mod lists 3 & 4 with most of the ET and MPH outliers eliminated.

Average ET = 8.6148
Average MPH = 86.9088

So...I'm better on the ET but worse on the MPH. In this game though, ET is king right? So I think you guys are right. I just need to stick with it and get more samples. Weather could be jacking up the MPH...I wonder if worn tires could lower the MPH as well(shorter tire)? As my tires are about done(down to wear indicators). Digging into the data has been fairly interesting.

ACE1252

Going even further by throwing out the ringer months of Feb and March.

ET Average = 8.6482
MPH Average = 86.6802

ACE1252

A look at the 60' and 330' ET shows a nice below average improvement with the new shifter. Again, no outliers and no ringer months of Feb and March. Better 330' gives less time for MPH to go up? By getting quicker at the start, I may be starting to get into an area where I see these guys running killer times by getting it all off the line and you see smallish MPH.

I'm by no means running killer times, but I may be experiencing what happens when you get quicker at the front end of the track.

Which may mean that the short shifter is doing it's job.

ACE1252

Got back to the track last night. Very muggy with temps in low 80's. Track was pretty slick. I found my missing mph. I was not power shifting it last trip. I started power shifting it this time.

One the 1-2 the car would spin very, very, badly. Worst I've ever experienced, but I didn't get it out of shape, stayed straight with it.

Best run of the night was 8.54@87.8mph. That's not bad given the weather and track conditions. I'm also still trying to undo the years of wrapping my hand around the shifter on the 2-3 shift. Man, that is so hard to do....may seem simple, but it kinda becomes something that is second nature after so long. Just remembering to only use the palm of my hand to push up is burning me bad.

So...the shifter stays in the car. My times are below the average and I think I'll be able to beat my best once I get some ringer weather and track prep.

Edit: Adding this graphic(no months of Feb/March here)....with power shifting the new shifter, I've already managed to beat my best MPH during this time of the year. It's just a matter of getting to where I can consistently put it all together. I'll continue to get more data over the next month or two....that is unless I finally make the move to install ported heads.

ACE1252

I can't find the thread where I mentioned pulling my MGW and installing a Hawks shifter, so I'll just post my updated opinions on it here....

I've been running the Hawks for about 6 months. I like the physical hard stops and general feel of the shifter. The one thing I think that is weak on it is the centering return springs. I think my stock shifter centering springs seem to perform better. I had trouble with the Hawks not wanting to return to center from the drivers side. It would kind of hang up at a point and not return to neutral. This coupled with the slightly angled shifter handle had me hitting the gate between 1st and 3rd on the 2-3 shift more than with my stocker. Having said that, I think I do need to examine my shift "gate guide" in the trans to see if I've damaged the guide somehow. I'll take a peek at it next time I pull the trans, but I plan to give Tick Performance a call and get their take on it....and if necessary, take it to them to have a look.

That said, I never have hit the gate with the MGW. The centering springs are so strong that I think you'd really have to work hard to do it.

Yesterday I pulled the Hawks and reinstalled the MGW. I took a closer look at how high I had the shifter handle as I marked the height before I pulled it last year. I raised it to 7/16" measuring from the machined line in the handle to the shfter handle clamp. I was previously running it at half that height. The shifting effort from that change is much improved over what I remember from 6 months ago.

My biggest complaint with the MGW was putting the shifter in the wrong gear at times......so far I have not put it in the wrong gear yet since raising the handle higher.

The other thing to mention would be that I feel the Hawks shifter transmits bearing noise of the trans to the inside of the car more that the MGW or stocker. I'm not sure why....but I could clearly hear more bearing noise through the shifter handle than with the other two when in neutral with the clutch engaged(engine spinning trans input shaft).

Given how the MGW feels now with the handle at its "7/16" height, I think this is the shifter I'm gong to stick with. It was really a pleasure to drive with yesterday and without a doubt is the best drag racing shifter of all 3.

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

If you wanna get really buried, try digging for old DA and match time slips with a weight to what the DA was on that day.