H/C Package HP Numbers?
06-16-2005, 08:33 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Quickshotkimber
I threw the flow sheet away a while ago. When I got them , I figured the car wouldn't go very fast because of what I had seen on the internet. The intake flowed 250 at .500 and carry that past .550. The exhaust is incredible and flows 198 at .550 with no pipe. The bench at that shop has been known to be on the conservative side. I have seen TEA , AFR, and LE LT1 heads flow at least 20cfm lower than advertised. TEA and LE were both at 255 cfm at .550. I think the most important detail is how much was removed to get the flow #s. Mine don't look like any that I have seen from my friends. My ports don't go through the rocker stud holes.
The cam is quite large. It's not just the duration that is important. The lobe profile and lobe seperation are critical. With a steep ramp and a hyd roller, the proper valvetrain and spring pressures are critical. Just because a spring is good to .600 lift doesn't mean it can handle an aggressive lobe that only opens to .550. It just means that it won't bind before.600.
The cam is quite large. It's not just the duration that is important. The lobe profile and lobe seperation are critical. With a steep ramp and a hyd roller, the proper valvetrain and spring pressures are critical. Just because a spring is good to .600 lift doesn't mean it can handle an aggressive lobe that only opens to .550. It just means that it won't bind before.600.
From the heads I have had on my bench, Ai and Lloyd were very close (1-2cfm and maybe 5cfm off at the top end) to what they said they flowed.... GTP was way down from what they were supposed to flow, like 255cfm on a 280cfm head. Blackstone was pretty dam close on a really nice LT1 casting. Meaux was higher than what he said they flowed, and every set I have had of his turned out this way, then again the man has 28 NHRA national records. TEA's LT4 head on my bench was dead nuts on the intake... I didn't test the exhaust because I didn't have a pipe.... Same thing with Weld Tech... every head I have had from them flowed exactly what they said it did AND made some pretty mean power.
The smaller is better theory only works if you don't run into sonic choke in the port bud... EB probably does a good job with the velocity probe to get there.
Bret
06-16-2005, 09:21 PM
#22
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All of the three people mostly talked about here have yielded great results on a whole lot of H/C LT1 cars.
If price is a sensitivity, which it usually is, you cant beat going with heads from Lloyd. From what I've heard, he has produced consistent, repeatable, and stellar results.
However, if you dont mind spending a little more and want to go absolutely as fast as possible, I would give AI a long look. The price is approximately the same as the LE3 setup, but I've never seen any AI H/C car (I have good several good friends that have ran his stuff) that trapped less than 117 mph or dynoed under 400rwhp.
And as for cams, I have but one thing to say. Someone well known in the LT1 world whom I trust has told me that just about everyone around would be suprised as to where most of these custom cam designs originate. To keep a shitstorm from lighting off, I will only say that there is apparently at least one copycat in the top 5 or 6 people who market LT1 H/C packages when it comes to camshaft design.
If price is a sensitivity, which it usually is, you cant beat going with heads from Lloyd. From what I've heard, he has produced consistent, repeatable, and stellar results.
However, if you dont mind spending a little more and want to go absolutely as fast as possible, I would give AI a long look. The price is approximately the same as the LE3 setup, but I've never seen any AI H/C car (I have good several good friends that have ran his stuff) that trapped less than 117 mph or dynoed under 400rwhp.
And as for cams, I have but one thing to say. Someone well known in the LT1 world whom I trust has told me that just about everyone around would be suprised as to where most of these custom cam designs originate. To keep a shitstorm from lighting off, I will only say that there is apparently at least one copycat in the top 5 or 6 people who market LT1 H/C packages when it comes to camshaft design.
06-16-2005, 09:44 PM
#23
HellTeeOne,
I think your copycat story started from one thing a while ago, at least if you think I was part of it. So let me explain....
I started off doing cams for Lloyd because he said he couldn't get a cam from Joe and he couldn't get a hold of him and he needed the cam yesterday... So he told me the specs of the cam and I made as close of a copy of it for him. Then him and I started working together and I designed a bunch of cams to work with his heads, but untill I did that design I still sent him a few cams that were the same specs as what he orginally ordered. I gave the man what he wanted WHEN he wanted them.
I have the specs on the cams that Joe did for him. I don't let those out and I'm not posting them here because I respect him wanting to keep them under wraps.... I will tell you that none of the cams that I designed for Lloyd are even close to Joe's cams. The LE1, LE2, and LE3 are completely in different ball parks. Believe me I've heard this wives tale before. If someone wants to keep spreading that BS, well let them because the new cams are doing even better than the old "copy cats" & disinformation is not a bad thing IMHO.
If I posted the cam specs you would obviously see the difference, but it's going to be a cold day in hell when I put my specs and another guys who doesn't want them out there up for public view.
I've also seen some of Ai's cam specs, and I'm still more than confident that Lloyd has them covered in the cam department.
BTW you would be suprised what Lloyds LE1 heads can do, I know they have made over 400rwhp and that's with a stock valve and a really inexpensive port job. Lloyd doesn't claim to be better than anyone, he just wants to give people one hell of a bang for the buck, and I think he does that better than anyone now.
Bret
I think your copycat story started from one thing a while ago, at least if you think I was part of it. So let me explain....
I started off doing cams for Lloyd because he said he couldn't get a cam from Joe and he couldn't get a hold of him and he needed the cam yesterday... So he told me the specs of the cam and I made as close of a copy of it for him. Then him and I started working together and I designed a bunch of cams to work with his heads, but untill I did that design I still sent him a few cams that were the same specs as what he orginally ordered. I gave the man what he wanted WHEN he wanted them.
I have the specs on the cams that Joe did for him. I don't let those out and I'm not posting them here because I respect him wanting to keep them under wraps.... I will tell you that none of the cams that I designed for Lloyd are even close to Joe's cams. The LE1, LE2, and LE3 are completely in different ball parks. Believe me I've heard this wives tale before. If someone wants to keep spreading that BS, well let them because the new cams are doing even better than the old "copy cats" & disinformation is not a bad thing IMHO.
If I posted the cam specs you would obviously see the difference, but it's going to be a cold day in hell when I put my specs and another guys who doesn't want them out there up for public view.
I've also seen some of Ai's cam specs, and I'm still more than confident that Lloyd has them covered in the cam department.
BTW you would be suprised what Lloyds LE1 heads can do, I know they have made over 400rwhp and that's with a stock valve and a really inexpensive port job. Lloyd doesn't claim to be better than anyone, he just wants to give people one hell of a bang for the buck, and I think he does that better than anyone now.
Bret
06-16-2005, 10:03 PM
#25
Yeah, once you buy the package you get the specs with it. We just like to keep them secret cause were cool guys like that... lol no actually because people would think we are nuts if they saw the cam specs and never ran the setup first. In reality the cams could be sent out with a ICL only so you could install them and go, the specs don't matter its the power that does.
For most guys running a street car the LE2 pacakge or the LE3 heads and LE2 cam is the way to go.
Bret
For most guys running a street car the LE2 pacakge or the LE3 heads and LE2 cam is the way to go.
Bret
06-16-2005, 10:39 PM
#26
TECH Regular
Bret, you or Lloyd were not involved in what I am referring to. I thought it was common knowledge that you designed a few cams for Lloyd. Maybe I'm wrong, and it wasnt really widely known.
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, I am just saying that I've seen cam doctor stuff from a couple different people's cams and the specs were eerily close, and it made sense when someone told me a couple tidbits about what had been going on.
All of that aside, someone looking for a good running H/C LT1 cant go wrong with anyone mentioned in this thread.
As for anyone looking at wanting to do a H/C job on an LT1, just take a look at the outfits mentioned in this thread. All are smaller shops or businesses that spend relatively little on advertising and public relations compared to the larger shops that get a whole lot more ink. I would say that the number 1 mistake made by some people is failing to look a little deeper into this niche market and take notice of these guys. Because all of them are producing results that flat out smoke anything you will see from the big shops that spend tons of $ on advertizing.
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, I am just saying that I've seen cam doctor stuff from a couple different people's cams and the specs were eerily close, and it made sense when someone told me a couple tidbits about what had been going on.
All of that aside, someone looking for a good running H/C LT1 cant go wrong with anyone mentioned in this thread.
As for anyone looking at wanting to do a H/C job on an LT1, just take a look at the outfits mentioned in this thread. All are smaller shops or businesses that spend relatively little on advertising and public relations compared to the larger shops that get a whole lot more ink. I would say that the number 1 mistake made by some people is failing to look a little deeper into this niche market and take notice of these guys. Because all of them are producing results that flat out smoke anything you will see from the big shops that spend tons of $ on advertizing.
06-16-2005, 10:49 PM
#27
Hey, PM me with those details on that then... I'd like to hear that story...
I know one thing my cams are out in left field in terms of specs compared to the other guys out there, but they seem to work...
I agree that the LT1 is a market where you have to know the players and not the places that spend the $$$ on advertising.
bret
I know one thing my cams are out in left field in terms of specs compared to the other guys out there, but they seem to work...
I agree that the LT1 is a market where you have to know the players and not the places that spend the $$$ on advertising.
bret
06-16-2005, 11:39 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Quickshotkimber
First off, that sucks about your timing chains, Did you ever figure out what was causing it?
Second, I should have been more clear. I meant with a stock bottom end. It is hard to compare with 355s or 383 because so much is changed. Some for the worse, some put together very well. 95 bird is hauling, but that is with a built 355.
Steve is the quickest H&C That I am aware of. I've never seen a definative post about that pass or if it was a stock bottom end. That 10.54 is actually what we are going for. Should be there by the end of the season. My boss gave me 5 grand the other day for parts, so I can finally get some of the weight down. Hoping to be around 3350lbs. If you give me the .29 I lost in just the first 60ft, it would have run at LEAST 10.7s that night. I don't know though, because that little tire was KILLING me at the top end. Watching a tach bounce around 7000 for 3 seconds is very painful
I guess I'm kinda partial because of what went down with Bret and Joe. Joe got me where I am, so I'm sticking with him. Tim Jewel runs a hyd roller alot like mine. His stock heads were ported by eric. I think he went 10.30 at over 130 with a stock bottom end.
Second, I should have been more clear. I meant with a stock bottom end. It is hard to compare with 355s or 383 because so much is changed. Some for the worse, some put together very well. 95 bird is hauling, but that is with a built 355.
Steve is the quickest H&C That I am aware of. I've never seen a definative post about that pass or if it was a stock bottom end. That 10.54 is actually what we are going for. Should be there by the end of the season. My boss gave me 5 grand the other day for parts, so I can finally get some of the weight down. Hoping to be around 3350lbs. If you give me the .29 I lost in just the first 60ft, it would have run at LEAST 10.7s that night. I don't know though, because that little tire was KILLING me at the top end. Watching a tach bounce around 7000 for 3 seconds is very painful
I guess I'm kinda partial because of what went down with Bret and Joe. Joe got me where I am, so I'm sticking with him. Tim Jewel runs a hyd roller alot like mine. His stock heads were ported by eric. I think he went 10.30 at over 130 with a stock bottom end.
In all honesty with stock castings the extra cubic inches aren't going to help much, and a 355 isn't going to help hardly any unless it's running some crazy compression.
My original goal was to beat Sar2k's time, but do it with a baby cam. I had the 383 le2 setup come up for sale for dirt cheap so thats the only reason I sold my original setup.
I've never ran a Bret cam, both of mine were from Joe, ALTHOUGH I will say that my buddy ordered his heads/cam package from Lloyd and it was supposed to be a Joe O. cam, but Joe never sent a cam(waited almost a month) so he ended up with a Bret cam. I'm sure he was one of the first to get a Bret cam, and I do know the specs weren't close to the le1 cam from Joe.
07-08-2005, 01:06 AM
#29
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OK Rev Xtreme makes a head and cam package that has seen 450rwhp......yes 450!
Now I am not aying you will get 450, but it is the only kit I know of that is capable of doing that. Call Rev Xtreme up and ask Dino which kit was in Ryan's car that made 450rwhp and say you want that one, or better. Then we can send you a tune, and bam! You should be peaking WELL over 420rwhp in a 6 speed car.
REMEMBER REV XTREME!!! Not to mention their package is priced competatively with everyone else. :yup:
Now I am not aying you will get 450, but it is the only kit I know of that is capable of doing that. Call Rev Xtreme up and ask Dino which kit was in Ryan's car that made 450rwhp and say you want that one, or better. Then we can send you a tune, and bam! You should be peaking WELL over 420rwhp in a 6 speed car.
REMEMBER REV XTREME!!! Not to mention their package is priced competatively with everyone else. :yup:
07-08-2005, 11:25 AM
#30
Originally Posted by CamaroSS
OK Rev Xtreme makes a head and cam package that has seen 450rwhp......yes 450!
Now I am not aying you will get 450, but it is the only kit I know of that is capable of doing that. Call Rev Xtreme up and ask Dino which kit was in Ryan's car that made 450rwhp and say you want that one, or better. Then we can send you a tune, and bam! You should be peaking WELL over 420rwhp in a 6 speed car.
REMEMBER REV XTREME!!! Not to mention their package is priced competatively with everyone else. :yup:
Now I am not aying you will get 450, but it is the only kit I know of that is capable of doing that. Call Rev Xtreme up and ask Dino which kit was in Ryan's car that made 450rwhp and say you want that one, or better. Then we can send you a tune, and bam! You should be peaking WELL over 420rwhp in a 6 speed car.
REMEMBER REV XTREME!!! Not to mention their package is priced competatively with everyone else. :yup:
07-09-2005, 01:41 PM
#32
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Sorry about the size, but you get the idea....
Over 350rwtq from 3200-6500rpm
Over 400rwhp from 5200rpm on to a 449.22 rwhp peak and 402.20rwtq
Rev Xtreme Stage III Heads and Cam with exhaust and a FasterPROMS tune by Jeremy Formato. That is the N/A package, there is also one with lower compression for forced induction.
Over 350rwtq from 3200-6500rpm
Over 400rwhp from 5200rpm on to a 449.22 rwhp peak and 402.20rwtq
Rev Xtreme Stage III Heads and Cam with exhaust and a FasterPROMS tune by Jeremy Formato. That is the N/A package, there is also one with lower compression for forced induction.
07-09-2005, 04:52 PM
#33
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how can i check this package out without buying it?? is there anyone else that has it with the same proven #'s, i looked on the web site revXtreme.com and there is no indication that they do any kind of packages for LT1's.. basically there is nothing i can see on there site for LT1's that shows a H/C package. I would love to get 450RWHP from a H/C package but i would love some details of this package and to hear from people that have used it or currently have it now.
07-09-2005, 04:55 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Yeah, once you buy the package you get the specs with it. We just like to keep them secret cause were cool guys like that... lol no actually because people would think we are nuts if they saw the cam specs and never ran the setup first. In reality the cams could be sent out with a ICL only so you could install them and go, the specs don't matter its the power that does.
For most guys running a street car the LE2 pacakge or the LE3 heads and LE2 cam is the way to go.
Bret
For most guys running a street car the LE2 pacakge or the LE3 heads and LE2 cam is the way to go.
Bret
07-10-2005, 11:46 PM
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We do have a package for LT1s, that is for the LS1s. I did not realize you had and LT1. Please call Dino at Rev Xtreme 813-628-0080 and tell him you saw a H/C kit Stage III on LS1tech for LS1s, and was wondering what you could get in power for the same thing for the LT1.
Good Luck, my name is Kevin DiOssi, and I am a member of RevXtreme the club.
Good Luck, my name is Kevin DiOssi, and I am a member of RevXtreme the club.
