Tony's motor is awesome and nasty.

Makes my little 385 LT4 look tame by comparison (432/468, through the SSF3500 and 12 bolt, no dyno tricks).

We were all looking forward to seeing the car make some passes last weekend, but more important things came up.

 

That's without a pipe, we bought these heads as cast and did a ton of work to them.
The exhaust flow 239 at .600 lift at 28 inches of H20. Pretty much that's it, at .700 they flow 242cfm.

 

hey what did those flow out of the box?

 

FWIW, I don't need a lesson in the basics of engine design and theory, kinda covered that a long time ago.

Actually, the curtain area has a ton to do with it. Once the port is not the smallest part of the system in areas like the pushrod pinch and the port is mapped out to make sure the velocity is not too high in areas the lift and valve size are the determining factors of how high the motor will make power. You can help it some with more duration to get the area you need but the motor will still not make it's potential power without the lift. I don't make this stuff up, a couple of head porters with more than a few NHRA class records under their belt follow the same rules. Everything from SS, Comp Elminator, and Pro Stock, I just happen to agree with them and work accordingly.

"Tony's motor has a 2.100 valve and the heads flow 320cfm with 396 c.i, it will turn 8500rpm before it stops making power."

I hope you have over .800" of lift then. With that valve size you need about 5.6 sq in of curtain area and a port cross section of about 3.18 sq in. If your really good then 4.9 sq in of curtain area and 2.8" of port cross section would get the job done, with the sonic choke point even lower cross sectional area.

Same thing applies to a 1.0"+ lift 2.440" valve in a 10,000rpm 500 cube Pro Stock motor. Gotta have that lift or they dont make the power at that many RPM.

I pretty young but I'm almost at the 20 year mark in my quest for understanding engines as well, couldn't have been working on them for that long due to child labor laws lol, but none the less still have been figuring the whole system out for that long, and I still learn things everyday too. Figured you would have known that since that Super Vic you did for Tony looks about dead nuts like the ones I do for LT1's, figured you had to have seen what I do already.

Bret

 

I knew Bret was going to have fun with this one

 

I was driving home today and thought, I don't want to sound abrasive here so don't take it as me jumping down your back here.

FWIW 2 years ago made 592fwhp @ 7000 with LT1 castings, a SR cam, single plane and a 750 based carb, then the heads were reworked more and that picked up to 647fwhp. Only bad thing is that the block ended up in two pieces after the big N2O pill, thank god I didn't do the bottom end just the top end. That probably would have worked out to around 490-540rwhp (assuming 20% driveline loss with a big converter). I guess thats why I was a little bitchy before cause i've already BTDT, and I dont take being talked down to very well.

Either way I cant wait to see what it will do with a FAST computer and some RPM. Should see 500rwhp by then.

Bret

 

when can we get track times from this beast?

 

I'm pretty sure Joe O told me he put his on the chassis dyno once, but didn't finish tuning it for some reason. The numbers I remember (I'm old, so could be wrong) were over 600 rwhp, through an automatic and high stall non-lockup converter. I have no idea what Steve Quinn's made at the wheels, but should have been way up there. I haven't heard of them breaking any blocks. My 383" only makes 508 at the wheels, but I'm still running an LT4 intake, heads and rpm limited factory PCM. Can't use much cam or cylinder head. I have had no breakage problems, but also don't make the power those two guys do.

Did spray it a couple of weekends. "125 shot" (Is that how they say it?) It made 614 at the wheels. Didn't make a whole lot of runs like that. May not have lived if I had. I don't know. Could only spray it in 2nd & 3rd, after the front end came back down. Didn't seem to bother it. I've kidded some of the local guys about being bottle babys so much, I had to take it back off. <G>

 

Rick Intrau made 1240RWHP on a stock block..made some dyno runs, and passes (8.08@174) But it did fail, Z8's also had a stock block in the 8's with a Vortech, still living as far as I know. I dont see where a stock block would fail as long as detonation was not in the picture.


Ed, Steve Quinn posted(somewhere) that he made 470 ish to the wheels on a Mustang Dyno, one of the few times it was on one.


Ol humble Ed, it ONLY makes 508 to the wheels, with factory LT4 heads and intake, through a 4L60E

BIG Dave

 

Mine was on my dynojet. I'm sure Steve's would be a good bit higher on a Dynojet. That's a bad fast little engine. Joe's, it appears, even more so. I have no delusions that mine makes the kind of power those guys do. Mine has never been in the nines without a little help from the bottle. Those guys have. I think (hope) mine might run some 10.0s at sea level. Gotta get the wheel stands under better control first. (check the link in the racing section, under travel limiters) Mine has no coatings, gas ports, back cut rings, etc. There is some left, but I'm too old and lazy to face the added maintenence that comes with a more serious-effort engine. Been there, done that, still got the tee shirt. I was younger then.

Take care, Ed

 

All of these combos impress the **** outta me but I am a puppy in a big dawg world!

 

The block that broke in this particular situation was with a healthy shot of N2O, around 500 HP shot. Team that up with the RPM 7000+ and the dyno was reading 1170 when the thing went boom. Turbos and superchargers are much nicer on parts, shots in the 400+ range aren't easy on parts at all, and shock the hell out of everything. This all happened on Mike Morans engine dyno, just kinda sucks that it never got in a car.

Bret

 

Nice numbers, I think I met Tony at the Thunder race year before last. And If i know him its definately a n20 setup and good numbers indeed for n/a.

Mine for the record made 586rwhp @7700 rpm and stayed flat to 8400 on a eddy current/ mustang dyno... what throws people for a loop is, I was at 537rwhp @6000..... something to ponder
Never had it on a regular fixed roller but 600 would be very close if not on the plus side of it ... Quinn went a different route then I did, but we both pretty much derived in the same ballpark...I think he spun his 8+ with nearly 100less rwhp but his setup was gear oriented..as mine is less gear oriented... two different roads close outcome...just goes to show though dynos are a good tool, car setup can make or break a combination...

 

Nothing like a broad, flat power curve to make one haul ***.

 

Indeed ,torque varied around 30 ftlbs from where the verter hits to shift point ..

 

Hey guys....sorry I havent been in on the conversation yet but have been in the hospital with my newborn son for about 10 days. He is fine now though!!

I actually have a TH-400 with a 4600 non-lockup stall and 9" rear. Its nice to see Joe, Brett, Ed...etc in on this conversation. Like Joe stated.....this is setup for nitrous so we are very pleased with the n/a results. I am looking into the FAST XFI right now so we should have new numbers in about a month or two. Gonna try to break the stock LT1 pcm record first.

Thanks Harold for posting the #'s.

 

Brett........what kind of cold air induction tubing are your guys using with this set-up? I had to build my own. Was just curious. The stuff I used is kinda heavy. Wish I could make one out of a different lighter material.

 

Tony, about what you are doing is the way to go. There aren't lots of tubing choices out there for this.

Bret

 

I have an Ls1 front clip on my car, I think I am just goint to use my LS1 induction with my Lid. As far as piping, I may or may not use any.
Between the Lid, MAF sensor, and 90 TB. I want have to have much of anything, besides the rubber pieces I have now.

 

That should work nice!!