No just tired of trying to help those who won't listen, I have long tried to help other avoid making costly mistakes and am becoming more willing to let them screwup and THEN tell them how to fix it. They listen a whole lot better then. At the track for instance people chuckle to see a Caprice but then when I start beating cars that came in on trailers and that sprayed Camaro which I think was an LS1, people take notice and get the idea I might have a clue what I am talking about with this motor. The Camaro did MPH 10mph higher than me and even ET'd better BUT his .6xx(.000 being perfect) light meant he was looking at tailights the whole way.

 

the only thing i had to do was clean the surfaces and bolt them up with the correct gasket..those were my 'minor' mods....very simple an 96 caprice is correct, LT4's aren't the end all be all...mostly just overpriced stuff that sucker guys in...like myself.

 

Over priced... yeah your right now they are over priced. But back when I bought my LT4 intake I paid $250.00 for it on summit like 8-9 months ago. Come on you really cant go wrong for that price. Look at the LS1 you want an 90/90 intake your gonna have to pay way more than that. For what 15-20 HP????? and spend over $800.00. I am happy with my setup. I'm not saying it's the best but I't will defend itself against them pesky stangs, and some LS1's out there. I also had told myself when I bought my car in 2000. It had 31,000 miles that around 80-90,000 miles I was gonna do an engine swap, and I did. I wanted everything to be brand new, down to every single sensor. The onlything I kept used was the starter and the alternator. All the suspension is new, and the rearend is new. Thats just what I wanted and I know I paid alot.

 

I think you got sold a fake LT4 manifold...I have one sitting on a mock up engine right now and they dont bolt right. Its sits too high and is raised off the heads. Also, if you just cleaned the surfaces and bolted them right the ports on the LT4 manifold are misaligned with the LT1's...not the best thing to do for power.

 

In every head post you bash AFR, which is your perogative. However, you have never provided actual numbers showing this. People are in agreement that 195's or smaller with AFR's portwork dont put the numbers out. However, getting the castings and having a ported like LE or AI will yield better numbers than what AFR originally advertised. AFR's are stout heads and my LE ported AFR210's murder his LE3 heads by 25-30cfm across the board.

BY the way, you telling stories how you beat other cars at the track with your setup has nothing to do with a head post. If you want it to be relevant, compare it to other heads/cam cars that have good traction and compare slips. Not bashing, you got a heavy car moving fairly good, but thats about it.

 

Since you are asking for examples why not post some yourself? Find a few examples of 195 and smaller AFR castings actually working even if ported and post them up.
A friend has TPIS ported AFRs one of the smaller castings on a TPIS built 383 with their big hydraulic roller something like 240/240, TPIS tuned and running well, no obvious problems. Last time we both went to the track he ran 12.7-8 at 104 or so, I went 13.0 at 104 due to a failing fuel pump(I did the Racetronix kit since), he didn't get to run last night but the night we both ran was a -700ft DA and last night was +610ft. I was able to equal the 13.0 times from the other night on street tires this time with the slicks and tools in the trunk. Both of us 60ft. 1.7-8, the real kicker his LT1 is in a third gen, he is a great guy it is a nice car I just think it is a good example of lots of money spent on bad parts. He blew his tranny so it will be awhile before we get to run headsup, but he is already talking about looking into a package like I have the AI 190s with a mid 220s intake cam and mid .500s lift, too bad his stock heads were the cores I sent to AI.
Other pertinents he has a 3300 Edge I have a 3400 Edge he has 3.73s and 26" ET Streets on draglites I have 28x10.50 ET Drags on HEAVY stock Suburban steel rims with 3.42s, deeper gears are awaiting install and I want to get shorter tires too since the 5100rpm trap rpm isn't doing this combo justice. With the weight advantage and gearing advantage to me it just makes the AFR/TPIS stuff look even worse.

I am not even saying it is just AI that can make stock castings work this well, they are the company I chose to spend my money with and am very happy and should I decide I want more power they WILL get the call. At the same time though I know there are a lot of other companies that can make stock castings work very well, Lloyd, RacePrep, CM and the list goes on, I believe thes forums are full of evidence that most of us are best served with ported stock castings. Then again I also feel many of those foolish enough to jump on the aftermarket casting bandwagon so easily are not capable of making the parts work to their potential which certainly is a part of why we so often see AFRs and LT4s not perform well.

 

i have lt4 heads, with an LT1 intake. And no the lt4 head/intake combo aren't a great combo for great power. I'm currently looking to unload the lt4 intake i picked up for an edelbrock victor setup for fuel injection....but yeah thanks for the heads up there.

 

Ive heard from a friend that 96capricemgr has a very mean setup.

Tony.

 

It isn't that wild or anything just researched things and then picked parts, as are the rest of you I am budget limited which should not mean buy cheap parts it just means do it right the first time. I am reasonably sure these are the last LT1 heads I will ever need, the cam I can see me playing with in the future.
http://impalassforum.com/noncgi/ulti...968;p=1#000005
Here are the details and it is pretty strong testimony to what a good set of ported LT1 castings and a decent cam can do.
Look at my sig for the old setup and ET, my car has never been an overperformer there are a handful of bolton guys faster than my cammed times they pull weight and such to do it but were faster. What I am trying to say is AI gets the lions share of the credit here, I do not have a car that went 12s boltons only like some of the other Impalas/Caprices. There are about a dozen heads/cam cars in front of me most of them with some combination of lightening, electric WP, extreme gears, or much better weather, as the year goes on I will pick away at my standing and move up the list. Went 12.6-7 6 times last night though so this is consistent and no fluke.

The relavance of this post is look what LT1 stuff can do before asuming you need LT4 or aftermarket

 

those are damn good numbers for a 4300 lbs car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It seems evident to me that the heads arent his problem. Who traps 104mph with a hads/cam at a negative DA? I was trapping more than that with bolt-ons and stock heads/stock cam. I would think he haslots of issues including tuning with such a big cam. Stock headed baby cammed cars (hotcam, XE224/230, etc.) run up to 110mph or so on stock heads.

I am willing to bet his next setup will run a lot better, especially with a smaller cam.

Again, your looking to place blame on the heads when it appears he does not have enough gear or stall for that cam and I am guessing he needs a better tune for sure.

I agree with all of this.

 

My mistake.

 

Are you comparing a LT4 intake to a 90/90?

 

How about Caprice drives this guy's car? Perhaps he's a shitty driver... It'd be funny if Caprice clicked off an 11 second timeslip with those shitty heads.

 

Driving very rarely affects mph...104mph is slow.

 

not even

 

I think the whole engine package leaves something to be desired in that car, he had those heads on a stock shortblock with a much smaller cam a TPIS offering down around 210-212 intake was going 13.2 at 102-3 in good weather. The car runs well so while the tune may be poor it can't be that bad either. I believe he is only running about 11:1 which is a hinderance to a big cam.

The current stall and gear should be enough for this primarily street car for all out race that would be different, consider the cubes will soak up a lot of cam.
Once the tranny is back in I will get the car hooked up to my laptop and Datamaster.
Look at the gear I am running with my heavier car, it is not ideal and is slated to be changed but I am doing OK.
I really hope to help this guy make the parts he has work, but at the same time feel those heads and working with TPIS are mistakes and have politely voiced that opinion too him.
The tranny was stock plus transgo I believe, maybe it was slipping and that was the cause of low MPH time will tell.

 

dam if i new that this was going to happen to this thread i never would have started it.

but plz im just looking for some new heads that are better then the stock ones, looking for a decent price, direct bolt up, good power gain with a cam package.
i also came across these
http://www.eportworks.com/LT1LE2.htm
i dont want to read 20 more posts "they suck, not worth it" or if you think so plz link to somthing better!?

 

You just stated that with those same crapy heads he has done 102-103, but with a smaller cam and less cubes. Now he has a 383 and a large cam. Seems clear to me whether its the engine's tune or the tranny shifting is ou of whack....but the tune fo sure. Remember, an LT1 (fbody) with stock LT1 heads and stock LT1 cam can run more mph than that with bolt-ons only. I have seen autos run 105-106mph setup right on stock heads and stock cam. You may think the car runs well, but a dynotune will tell you that. Even if the heads suck like you think, I sincerely doubt they are worse than stock heads. That leaves a big a$$ cam and the tune to blame for poor mph (assuming mechanically everything else is fine). A big cam like that can be a bear to tune.

The cubes wont soak up that much. Street or track, he decided the cars use by picking a large cam like that. You dont really set the stall up based on the "street or the track", you set it up based on how the engine perfoms (i.e. powrband/tq curve). With that cam he should be making high rpm power.

That could be very useful, but why not go to the dyno? Atleast you will be able to see knock count and fuel trimming with datamaster...something is better than nothing.

You are having success do to a smaller cam, probably better heads, and a better tune. I a guesing he has a very soggy low end, and you have a stout one. This goes back to his cam and tuning IMO.

Its good you ant to help, but the cheapest thing for him would be a dynotune rather than swapping heads. Either way, start with datamaster like you said.

 

Bah, dont worry. If you want a stout heads/cam package (400rwhp street car N/A) than contact Lloyd Elliott (the link you have there) or contact Advanced Induction (AI). The use ported LT1 stock heads and get them flowing great. You can also have them port aftermarket heads as well (like Trickflow or the hated AFR's ).