Ah F*** - RANT Time
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Did you go with 3/8 rocker studs or 7/16's?
This is exactly why I went with the solid roller cam.
Also, poly locks should never come loose. I will take a guess and say you just tighten the allen nut. This is incorrect because you will never get enough pressure on it to stop it from backing off. After you set your lash (or in your case lifter preload) tighten the poly lock normaly with a wrench. Then use a box end wrench on the nut and tighten it another 1/16th. This will seat the locks perminantly. The only reason this would not work is if you had dirt between the top of the stud and the lock, or if the top of the stud has a ridge and is not flat.
Be sure to check for coil bind, and make sure your valve train geometry is correct. I had a collapsing lifter problem with my old HR, and all it did was cause me to loose HP there was no dammage to any of the other components.
This is exactly why I went with the solid roller cam.
Also, poly locks should never come loose. I will take a guess and say you just tighten the allen nut. This is incorrect because you will never get enough pressure on it to stop it from backing off. After you set your lash (or in your case lifter preload) tighten the poly lock normaly with a wrench. Then use a box end wrench on the nut and tighten it another 1/16th. This will seat the locks perminantly. The only reason this would not work is if you had dirt between the top of the stud and the lock, or if the top of the stud has a ridge and is not flat.
Be sure to check for coil bind, and make sure your valve train geometry is correct. I had a collapsing lifter problem with my old HR, and all it did was cause me to loose HP there was no dammage to any of the other components.
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From: Tomball (H-Town), TX
Originally Posted by engineermike
Gun5, what makes you think your lifters are bad? How much spring pressure are you running?
You DO realize, they all collapse when the engine is stopped and that valve is open. . .
Mike
You DO realize, they all collapse when the engine is stopped and that valve is open. . .
Mike
Originally Posted by SS Aleks
Did you go with 3/8 rocker studs or 7/16's?
This is exactly why I went with the solid roller cam.
Also, poly locks should never come loose. I will take a guess and say you just tighten the allen nut. This is incorrect because you will never get enough pressure on it to stop it from backing off. After you set your lash (or in your case lifter preload) tighten the poly lock normaly with a wrench. Then use a box end wrench on the nut and tighten it another 1/16th. This will seat the locks perminantly. The only reason this would not work is if you had dirt between the top of the stud and the lock, or if the top of the stud has a ridge and is not flat.
Be sure to check for coil bind, and make sure your valve train geometry is correct. I had a collapsing lifter problem with my old HR, and all it did was cause me to loose HP there was no dammage to any of the other components.
This is exactly why I went with the solid roller cam.
Also, poly locks should never come loose. I will take a guess and say you just tighten the allen nut. This is incorrect because you will never get enough pressure on it to stop it from backing off. After you set your lash (or in your case lifter preload) tighten the poly lock normaly with a wrench. Then use a box end wrench on the nut and tighten it another 1/16th. This will seat the locks perminantly. The only reason this would not work is if you had dirt between the top of the stud and the lock, or if the top of the stud has a ridge and is not flat.
Be sure to check for coil bind, and make sure your valve train geometry is correct. I had a collapsing lifter problem with my old HR, and all it did was cause me to loose HP there was no dammage to any of the other components.
the cam is a CC305 the pushrods are TRICKFLOW 7.200 length .080 thickness
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 220 230
Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.51 0.51
Dur @ 0.006 Tappet Lift 276 290
Last edited by Gun5; Jan 8, 2007 at 01:26 PM.
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From: Tomball (H-Town), TX
Originally Posted by 1QWKT/A
I just installed my MSD but havent put the hub on yet. How do I avoid the problem this guy is having?
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This may help you.
Adjusting valves is easy. This is my method.
1) Install pushrods and rocker arms
2) By hand install all of the locking nuts (do not install locks at this time, compleetly remove them and set them aside).
3) Turn the engine over untill some of the valves are in the open posion. Keep rotating the crank untill you observe maximum lift. You don't need a dial indicator here just close 'nuf.
4) You are now ready to adjust the adjasent rocker arm of the same cylinder.
Note: Step #3 insures that the lifter is on the base circle of the cam. If the lifter is any where on the lift part you will adjust the rockers wrong! This is because you are now tightening against the valve spring and lifter, this will make the rocker higher than it needs to be. You will notice that on the next engine rotation that particular rocker will not be adjusted right. Step #3 also assumes that the intake is on the engine and you can't see the lifters.
5) Loosen the adjusting nut untill the rocker just flopps arround.
6) Begin tightening the nut by hand while lifting up and down on the rocker arm on the push rod side. (forget that spin push rod garbage )
7) Continue tightening by hand untill the rocker arm has no vertical movement. This is zero lash.
8) At this point a decision needs to be made with regard to your preload setting. A stock hydraulic lifter takes between 1/4 and 1/2 turn, still other lifters require less like 1/16th tun, and some lifters either run at zero or with lash in which case you would need a feeler gauge. Consult the lifter manufactureure for this part.
9) Install the nut lock. Thread them in by hand.
10) Grab a box end wrench and hold back the nut while you tighten the lock. Use a medium length allen wrench and snug it down pretty tight. I typically use my thumb untill I get some wrench deflection.
11) Lastly take the box end wrench and tighten the nut another degree or two. This will ensure that the locks are set.
NOTE: When removing the nut (for any reason) don't break them loose at the lock. Instead, loosen the nut first then hold back the nut while you remove the lock. This will help preserve the threads on the locks and nuts.
Thats it! Then continue down the line roating and adjusting untill you run out of locks.
Adjusting valves is easy. This is my method.
1) Install pushrods and rocker arms
2) By hand install all of the locking nuts (do not install locks at this time, compleetly remove them and set them aside).
3) Turn the engine over untill some of the valves are in the open posion. Keep rotating the crank untill you observe maximum lift. You don't need a dial indicator here just close 'nuf.
4) You are now ready to adjust the adjasent rocker arm of the same cylinder.
Note: Step #3 insures that the lifter is on the base circle of the cam. If the lifter is any where on the lift part you will adjust the rockers wrong! This is because you are now tightening against the valve spring and lifter, this will make the rocker higher than it needs to be. You will notice that on the next engine rotation that particular rocker will not be adjusted right. Step #3 also assumes that the intake is on the engine and you can't see the lifters.
5) Loosen the adjusting nut untill the rocker just flopps arround.
6) Begin tightening the nut by hand while lifting up and down on the rocker arm on the push rod side. (forget that spin push rod garbage )
7) Continue tightening by hand untill the rocker arm has no vertical movement. This is zero lash.
8) At this point a decision needs to be made with regard to your preload setting. A stock hydraulic lifter takes between 1/4 and 1/2 turn, still other lifters require less like 1/16th tun, and some lifters either run at zero or with lash in which case you would need a feeler gauge. Consult the lifter manufactureure for this part.
9) Install the nut lock. Thread them in by hand.
10) Grab a box end wrench and hold back the nut while you tighten the lock. Use a medium length allen wrench and snug it down pretty tight. I typically use my thumb untill I get some wrench deflection.
11) Lastly take the box end wrench and tighten the nut another degree or two. This will ensure that the locks are set.
NOTE: When removing the nut (for any reason) don't break them loose at the lock. Instead, loosen the nut first then hold back the nut while you remove the lock. This will help preserve the threads on the locks and nuts.
Thats it! Then continue down the line roating and adjusting untill you run out of locks.
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Originally Posted by the_merv
They all drop down with no Oil pressure..
There is no such thing as a collapsed lifter. . . that is, they all collapse when you push down on them for a while. There is such a thing as a worn out lifter, but they're rare.
Mike
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From: Tomball (H-Town), TX
Originally Posted by engineermike
Yep. My bet is that there's nothing wrong with the lifters. Sometimes they act funny because some have oil, while the oil already squeezed out of others. You just need to pay close attention when setting them to a small amount of drag when the lifter isn't full.
There is no such thing as a collapsed lifter. . . that is, they all collapse when you push down on them for a while. There is such a thing as a worn out lifter, but they're rare.
Mike
There is no such thing as a collapsed lifter. . . that is, they all collapse when you push down on them for a while. There is such a thing as a worn out lifter, but they're rare.
Mike
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From: Tomball (H-Town), TX
Originally Posted by SS Aleks
This may help you.
Adjusting valves is easy. This is my method.
1) Install pushrods and rocker arms
2) By hand install all of the locking nuts (do not install locks at this time, compleetly remove them and set them aside).
3) Turn the engine over untill some of the valves are in the open posion. Keep rotating the crank untill you observe maximum lift. You don't need a dial indicator here just close 'nuf.
4) You are now ready to adjust the adjasent rocker arm of the same cylinder.
Note: Step #3 insures that the lifter is on the base circle of the cam. If the lifter is any where on the lift part you will adjust the rockers wrong! This is because you are now tightening against the valve spring and lifter, this will make the rocker higher than it needs to be. You will notice that on the next engine rotation that particular rocker will not be adjusted right. Step #3 also assumes that the intake is on the engine and you can't see the lifters.
5) Loosen the adjusting nut untill the rocker just flopps arround.
6) Begin tightening the nut by hand while lifting up and down on the rocker arm on the push rod side. (forget that spin push rod garbage )
7) Continue tightening by hand untill the rocker arm has no vertical movement. This is zero lash.
8) At this point a decision needs to be made with regard to your preload setting. A stock hydraulic lifter takes between 1/4 and 1/2 turn, still other lifters require less like 1/16th tun, and some lifters either run at zero or with lash in which case you would need a feeler gauge. Consult the lifter manufactureure for this part.
9) Install the nut lock. Thread them in by hand.
10) Grab a box end wrench and hold back the nut while you tighten the lock. Use a medium length allen wrench and snug it down pretty tight. I typically use my thumb untill I get some wrench deflection.
11) Lastly take the box end wrench and tighten the nut another degree or two. This will ensure that the locks are set.
NOTE: When removing the nut (for any reason) don't break them loose at the lock. Instead, loosen the nut first then hold back the nut while you remove the lock. This will help preserve the threads on the locks and nuts.
Thats it! Then continue down the line roating and adjusting untill you run out of locks.
Adjusting valves is easy. This is my method.
1) Install pushrods and rocker arms
2) By hand install all of the locking nuts (do not install locks at this time, compleetly remove them and set them aside).
3) Turn the engine over untill some of the valves are in the open posion. Keep rotating the crank untill you observe maximum lift. You don't need a dial indicator here just close 'nuf.
4) You are now ready to adjust the adjasent rocker arm of the same cylinder.
Note: Step #3 insures that the lifter is on the base circle of the cam. If the lifter is any where on the lift part you will adjust the rockers wrong! This is because you are now tightening against the valve spring and lifter, this will make the rocker higher than it needs to be. You will notice that on the next engine rotation that particular rocker will not be adjusted right. Step #3 also assumes that the intake is on the engine and you can't see the lifters.
5) Loosen the adjusting nut untill the rocker just flopps arround.
6) Begin tightening the nut by hand while lifting up and down on the rocker arm on the push rod side. (forget that spin push rod garbage )
7) Continue tightening by hand untill the rocker arm has no vertical movement. This is zero lash.
8) At this point a decision needs to be made with regard to your preload setting. A stock hydraulic lifter takes between 1/4 and 1/2 turn, still other lifters require less like 1/16th tun, and some lifters either run at zero or with lash in which case you would need a feeler gauge. Consult the lifter manufactureure for this part.
9) Install the nut lock. Thread them in by hand.
10) Grab a box end wrench and hold back the nut while you tighten the lock. Use a medium length allen wrench and snug it down pretty tight. I typically use my thumb untill I get some wrench deflection.
11) Lastly take the box end wrench and tighten the nut another degree or two. This will ensure that the locks are set.
NOTE: When removing the nut (for any reason) don't break them loose at the lock. Instead, loosen the nut first then hold back the nut while you remove the lock. This will help preserve the threads on the locks and nuts.
Thats it! Then continue down the line roating and adjusting untill you run out of locks.
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From: Tomball (H-Town), TX
Originally Posted by engineermike
Gun5 how much spring pressure we talkin'? I'm running 160 seat and others have been as high as 190 with no problems.
Again, they're supposed to go down when the valve is open.
Mike
Again, they're supposed to go down when the valve is open.
Mike
I didnt adjust them myself my mechanic and another mechanic that built m car did it, and they are pretty good with LT1/LS1's having built hundreds of motors working at 2 peformance shops... although maybe they are missing something?
we know the lifters go down, but i will lay on the starter and crank it for a good 10-15 seconds then they will try and set it some will set some go down real quick
Last edited by Gun5; Jan 8, 2007 at 07:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by camar0corey
Sucks about the opti, I was freaking when I put my underdrive pulley on, I had to put a shitload of washers on so that the crank bolts wouldn't rub the MSD opti.
Yeah, well I guess its not too many washers, 3 per bolt.
Brain wasn't working that great at the time, I just wanted to get out of the auto hobby shop and out to the runway.
Its doing ok though, they have never come loose.
Only reason why I had long bolts anyway was because I had a grade 8 bolt snap that came with the Autospecialties underdrive pulley. Don't know how, friend was torqueing them to the torque spec listed in the Chiltons, snapped the bolt. Closet bolt size avaible at the hardware store was 1/4 inch longer.
Brain wasn't working that great at the time, I just wanted to get out of the auto hobby shop and out to the runway.
Its doing ok though, they have never come loose.
Only reason why I had long bolts anyway was because I had a grade 8 bolt snap that came with the Autospecialties underdrive pulley. Don't know how, friend was torqueing them to the torque spec listed in the Chiltons, snapped the bolt. Closet bolt size avaible at the hardware store was 1/4 inch longer.
