Well I went and got dynoe'd today...
I didn't like the numbers but I guess my fuddle 3800 stall is eating quite abit of hp. The dyno guy said the car sounds very healthy and pulls strong from what he could tell.... my numbers...

318.94rwhp.
301.49tq. It looks from the sheet that he stopped at around 5850-5900 rpm's. but I thought it said 6,000 on the computer...

old numbers w/ headers 2400 stall and cai was

258.96rwhp
292.09tq.

so 60hp. gain with h/c,injectors,t.b. and a couple of other things...
could my stall be eating up 40-50 hp on the dyno

it feels very strong... guess I have to wait until the track tomorrow if it doesn't rain. or on fri. eve...


Plus I know I have a bigger cam, and it was still gaining on hp.. just didn't want to rev. too high with the stock bottom end, and around 171,000 miles...

I'll put up the sheet as soon as I can find the camera

 

I don't know much about stalls and the like, but 3800 seems like a whole hell of a lot. I can't imagine wanting to go over 2800 on a street car.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically your car kicks in at around 3800rpm? Which is at the end of your torque curve I'd think. Then also you've only got 2500rpm's between gears?

If you're bored, put the 2400 back in, I'm sure it'll be much better.

 

was the converter locked up???

 

People dont race dynos, they race time clocks.

Save the dyno competitions for the turbo'd ricers - take her too the track to get a real estimate of how your car is running. Without specs on the heads besides "stage two", it is impossible to tell if your combo is in the correct range or not anyway...not to mention lacking a professional dyno tune will definately hurt your numbers. A 306 should be putting down a fair bit more then that though, but you have to spin it to around 6800 to see it - have you data logged and examined the logs yet?

 

I saw a few cam only LS1's that should dyno close to 400 RWHP. The autos with big stalls(4k+) only put down 310/330 but run mid 11's. Then the M6 cars were strapped in and put down 385-405 HP. So the big stall and inability to lock the conv do play a major factor in #'s but we dont race those. Need some track times to be sure, so go out there and get back to us!!!

 

Yes I have.. pretty normal in the range of a/f. and all sensors are within range..
on the dyno sheet, the af is really smooth holding around a 13.0 af thruout the range on the dyno sheet..I'll get the sheet up pretty quick... the heads have a full p&p from Prowflow performance comparable to a LE2 setup.. manley 2.00/1.57 valves. k-motion k750 springs. crane gold 1.6 rr's. comp hardened pushrods. car pulls very hard. no misses... I do need to get to the track and see how she does...

I went with the bigger stall because of the high lift cam, and my 373's.
the 2400 was way too small to run.. plus I don't run my car on the street too often, about once a week...

 

Well I feel alittle better...

Im off to the track tomorrow if it dosen't rain, if it does I'll be there on fri.. I will def. let you know the track times... Im not sure if the stall was locking, maybe you can tell on the sheet when I put it up....

 

well with the high lift cam I have in there now, it see's full power at around 67-6800 from what I hear...

it didn't start gaining power until 5200 rpm's.. from 5200 rpm's to 5900 it gained around 32hp... and was still gaining, just the dyno guy shut it down at around 5900-6,000... just don't want to spin a bearing w/170,000 on the bottom end, until I can afford a forged stroker kit...

 

You don't know jack about high stalls. My 3400 Edge pulls against the brakes rather hard at a 800rpm in gear hot idle, harder than my wife's completely stock '03 Impala.

You could try locking it and I bet you do gain 20hp+, Fuddle is not a great converter the way people claim it is and I would expect it to be somewhat inefficient, that is what you get when going cheap as possible.

Lift has little do do with peak power rpm, duration does, if you put a cam in that wont peak till 6700+ we can't offer much help if you are going to make decisions that poor.

 

Well sometimes you have to go cheap when you don't have the cash...

and I don't know how getting a cc306 cam is a poor decision, I plan on going 383 when the cash comes in, but with 2 kids,mortgage and car payments sometimes it's better to get some parts that when you upgrade other area's you won't have to upgrade all the parts.... If I remember I was asking about a stall's effiency, not the decision's I make, keep your smartass comment's to yourself...

 

on a brighter note here is a copy of the dynograph...

blue is todays'
red is from 2005...

 

That Company Has Alot Of Problems!

 

stalls and dynos do not go together. see how it performs at the track.

 

Picking a cam that wants to be shifted at 6800+ when you are only willing to rev to 5800-6000, then complaining about low dyno #'s show how bad your decision was. And the 306 is a pretty bad choice for a stroker, + it's lift is way too low for ported heads so to get halfway decent results out of a 383 you would have to change cams again anyway. And fuddles are cheap inefficient convertors, they dyno low and trap low at the track so thats probably why you dyno'd so low. But you also didn't post any info on the heads so we have no idea how good they are.

 

Well your probably right... On the heads, they are from proflow performance... They have manley 2.00/1.57 valves. kmotions k750 springs. crane gold 1.6rr's. full p&p, flows around 280/190 I believe, I have to dig up the sheet.

I'll take it to the track to see how she does, if the mph is down on the lower end. then it is coming out, and a Vig 3600 going in. I did pick the cam more for the lope... Now Im paying for it... Im sure when I do the stroker, I'll be giving Brett a call for a custom grind cam...

 

lock it up and you'll make more

 

What's with the drop in HP at 5250?

 

An Edge is only $525 and certainly a better converter than a Fuddle or TCI.

Far as a 306 and only reving it to 5800, like it or not that is a bad combination. I learned the hard way doing things RIGHT is cheaper than trying to save the most all the time.

Because of trying to save money I have bought 3 sets or rockers which should have been 2, 3 torque converters which should have been 1 maybe 2, 2 sets of headers which should have been 1, 2 tranny builds which should have been one, have two crap "washable filters" instead of getting the S&B or K&N which would have fit better and not built vacuum, 2 fuel pumps which should have been 1. That is just the highlights and easily represents enough money I could have a nice forged stroker had I not gone "cheap" so many times.
The sooner you learn these lessons the sooner you can start getting more out of your mod dollars.

 

Wait for ETs before making decisions.

A dyno is nothing more then a tuning tool that should be used to fine tune your settings. I could care less about the HP I put to the wheels, or what mph I trap at...the ET is what is important IMO. MPH is not a distance you can race.

Your combo should peak in the 6800 range, that explains your low numbers since it was not spun high enough. True, the fuddle eats up a good amount of hp(less then a TCI or B&M though), but track times show the real picture. I guess its time to either rebuild now for piece of mind, spin it how it wants and have fun till it breaks, baby it and not reach its potential - or just switch to a new cam(custom grind with higher lift but lower duration then a cc306). If you still want the aggressive lope get a 108-110 LSA...

For the record, I have not seen someone who actually owns a fuddle complain about it . Stalls are for 60' and ETs, not rwhp...

What I would like to see is have the shifts set around 6500,take it to the track,run it, and hope for the best...but that is easy for me to say - it is not my car, and I am not the one who will have to pay for whatever breaks

I do not blame you totally for choosing that cam - with all the misinformation floating around the web, it seems like every other week there is a new "magic" off the shelf grind that seems to good to be true...and is. Hotcam, baby crane, 306, 847, some XFI grind, etc etc have all had their spotlight as the "It" cam. Custom grind is the only way to truly get what you want out of a car.

 

These two know hip hop

Take everything people say with a grain of salt, do research yourself and you'll find yourself at a true combination for your specific application that you'll be ultimately happy with. Tossing in the 'best deal' or 'big number parts' with out properly choosing parts that will compliment each other, you'll find yourself in the situation that you're in now.

Granted at this point with the money you've spent, its not a complete loss. Get it dialed in, and learn from your mistakes and start to research and piece together your own setup that'll be best for your ultimate goals for the car.

I'll agree though -- dyno numbers aren't for much more than ***** measuring contests, get that thing to the track and see how it performs.