dual plane conversion anyone done this?
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Yep, a little too pricey now for my blood. I'd get the rails and bungs fit and just run what GMRL posted. Only thing you'd have to do is make your own throttle brackets then. And for me, the kick down :\
Originally Posted by GMRL
So after all is said and done, with the intake manifold, elbow, conversion price, throttlebody if your using a single blade, misc hoses, fittings, and intake ducting. You will be spending around 1 grand for all that. Thats money that could be better spent on other areas for a bolt-on to mildly modified car. Especially for just a dual plane intake.
But if you really want to do it, you could do away with the elbow and get one of these from say, holley, to just throw a name out there. Im sure there are more out there. You will have to get a little creative with the intake ducting but its not really a big deal.
But if you really want to do it, you could do away with the elbow and get one of these from say, holley, to just throw a name out there. Im sure there are more out there. You will have to get a little creative with the intake ducting but its not really a big deal.
Just a little hard to use that and an air filter. A friend of mine has a 94 with an old school 350 and carb. It is right under the cowl.
If I could figure out what would be involved in making the TPS and IAC sensors used on 4.6 Ford Cobra engines work, this would be pretty sweet:
Seems like you'd get a helluva lot more plenum volume out of that too since it's longer than the intakeelbows version. Probably more hood clearance as well with the way it flows downward like that.
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../tbadapter.htm
Seems like you'd get a helluva lot more plenum volume out of that too since it's longer than the intakeelbows version. Probably more hood clearance as well with the way it flows downward like that.
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../tbadapter.htm
Last edited by thesoundandthefury; Jun 8, 2007 at 08:48 PM.
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From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
Originally Posted by thesoundandthefury
If I could figure out what would be involved in making the TPS and IAC sensors used on 4.6 Ford Cobra engines work, this would be pretty sweet:
Seems like you'd get a helluva lot more plenum volume out of that too since it's longer than the intakeelbows version. Probably more hood clearance as well with the way it flows downward like that.
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../tbadapter.htm
Seems like you'd get a helluva lot more plenum volume out of that too since it's longer than the intakeelbows version. Probably more hood clearance as well with the way it flows downward like that.
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../tbadapter.htm
GMRL, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking
EDIT: Since their Javascript is not working, here's the bigger pics
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../46_tba_tb.jpg
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y...ges11/tba1.jpg
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y...es11/tba_3.jpg
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y...ges11/tba4.jpg
Last edited by Formula350; Jun 8, 2007 at 11:15 PM.
Nitro daves makes an Elbow as well to use the factory TB's on the single plane conversion like Fastfatboy, I done the Single plane conversion back in the day when Guys like Tony Shepard where doing it (shortly after him) and we didn't have the Elbows to use LTX TB's. We had to convert to a 90mm Ford Accufab TB, and use a Ford IAC and TPS setup (plug and play from a nonvendor)
I had a Super Vic setup that I had $1,500 into it and I was not even finished, the new owner got the thing powdercoated, and had even more work done on it.
Heres a pic
I can do a Badass Single plane setup know using my Monoblade and most of the factory stuff for around a 1,000.
However I think I would try a Dual plane from GM (ported) before I would try another single plane just for fun. The new owner of my intake loss 10lbs of TQ and hp everywhere below 5500, by 7000 though he gained 30+rwhp and was still climbing.
For a street car I think the dual plane Gm intake converted would be a nice intake, haven't ever tested this but in theory it would work
EDIT
Found the link to the Elbow Nitro Daves makes
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...ight=Lt1+Elbow
Have the intake converted to EFI, use a LTX TB ultilizing the factory IAC, TPS, and Run a vaccum line to the Map, on the back of the Elbow have the Vaccum Fittings for everything like on the stock intake.
I had a Super Vic setup that I had $1,500 into it and I was not even finished, the new owner got the thing powdercoated, and had even more work done on it.
Heres a pic
I can do a Badass Single plane setup know using my Monoblade and most of the factory stuff for around a 1,000.
However I think I would try a Dual plane from GM (ported) before I would try another single plane just for fun. The new owner of my intake loss 10lbs of TQ and hp everywhere below 5500, by 7000 though he gained 30+rwhp and was still climbing.
For a street car I think the dual plane Gm intake converted would be a nice intake, haven't ever tested this but in theory it would work
EDIT
Found the link to the Elbow Nitro Daves makes
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...ight=Lt1+Elbow
Have the intake converted to EFI, use a LTX TB ultilizing the factory IAC, TPS, and Run a vaccum line to the Map, on the back of the Elbow have the Vaccum Fittings for everything like on the stock intake.
Last edited by T/A KID; Jun 9, 2007 at 01:35 AM.
Originally Posted by Formula350
The lack of IAC though (unless my eyes deceive me), that might be something different. Using the Ford IAC, while in a different spot, may still be doable, but I don't have a clue.
http://www.powergridinc.com/iac.asp
Direct plug-and-play GM IAC adapter.
Now if I'm looking at this right, it looks like the IAC motor bolts up to the machined area on the bottom side of the Sullivan elbow that has the two holes.
Originally Posted by Formula350
Don't know if the Ford one is bigger, but could we just bolt up the GM TB?
Originally Posted by T/A KID
The new owner of my intake loss 10lbs of TQ and hp everywhere below 5500...
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Verdad Gallardo No need of that sensor (unless like you stated you wanted to use the ford Elbow which to be honest I really don't like)
http://www.raceprovenmotors.com/cart...p?cPath=43_127
Us the 90-105mm TB (same site) and just use the Ford to GM TPS, and IAC connections. OR use the factory TB and don't worry about it.
http://www.raceprovenmotors.com/cart...p?cPath=43_127
Us the 90-105mm TB (same site) and just use the Ford to GM TPS, and IAC connections. OR use the factory TB and don't worry about it.
Originally Posted by T/A KID
No need of that sensor (unless like you stated you wanted to use the ford Elbow which to be honest I really don't like)
http://www.raceprovenmotors.com/cart...p?cPath=43_127
Us the 90-105mm TB (same site) and just use the Ford to GM TPS, and IAC connections. OR use the factory TB and don't worry about it.
http://www.raceprovenmotors.com/cart...p?cPath=43_127
Us the 90-105mm TB (same site) and just use the Ford to GM TPS, and IAC connections. OR use the factory TB and don't worry about it.
Looking at the pic of that TPS adapter harness, looks like all that changes is the plug. I was under the impression that Ford TPS's used a different resistance value than GM and needed some type've "box" to translate one to the other. But hell if all that's different is a plug, you could probably just buy a regular Ford TPS harness and just splice it into your stock wiring harness ya think?
That Sullivan elbow is alot easier on the eyes than a welded sheetmetal box.
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If I had the money, I'd get a nice intake and that Sullivan elbow.
As for the IAC, I redited but forgot to remove that line :S The machine spot on the bottom IS for the IAC.
As for the IAC, I redited but forgot to remove that line :S The machine spot on the bottom IS for the IAC.
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Im pretty sure Fords TPS and IAC both use the same 5 volt system that GM uses. All you would have to do is splice the ford connectors into the GM harness. The PCM is capable of resetting itself to learn to idle and use the TPS anyways.
So out of the three elbow choices:
1. Wilson ($200)- need to convert to an Accufab (or equivalent) single bore TB. Stock hood needs to be cut for clearance.
2. Sullivan ($300)- appears to have the most plenum volume and best hood clearance. Needs a Cobra throttle body and (most likely) a GM IAC adapter.
3. Nitro Dave ($300)- you save $$$ by being able to use the stock TB. It doesn't fit under a stock hood, so you may or may not have to factor in the cost of an aftermarket cowl/ramair type hood.
Rough ballpark estimates for each are:
Wilson option:
GMPP intake-$280
Wilson elbow- $200
Fuel rails & conversion labor from Aaron- $370
Ford style 75mm TB- $265
GM IAC adapter- $65
Total: $1,180 + shipping costs
Sullivan option:
GMPP intake- $280
Sullivan elbow- $300
Fuel rails & conversion labor from Aaron- $370
4.6L Cobra style TB- $360
GM IAC adapter for Sullivan elbow- $175
Total: $1,485 + shipping costs
Nitro Dave option:
GMPP intake- $280
Nitro Dave elbow- $300
Fuel rails & conversion labor from Aaron- $370
Total: $950 + shipping costs
Which one is the best bang for the buck seems to come down to whether or not you already have a ramair/cowl hood. If you do, Nitro Dave wins. If you don't and have to buy one and pay to have it painted/fitted, then Wilson wins.
1. Wilson ($200)- need to convert to an Accufab (or equivalent) single bore TB. Stock hood needs to be cut for clearance.
2. Sullivan ($300)- appears to have the most plenum volume and best hood clearance. Needs a Cobra throttle body and (most likely) a GM IAC adapter.
3. Nitro Dave ($300)- you save $$$ by being able to use the stock TB. It doesn't fit under a stock hood, so you may or may not have to factor in the cost of an aftermarket cowl/ramair type hood.
Rough ballpark estimates for each are:
Wilson option:
GMPP intake-$280
Wilson elbow- $200
Fuel rails & conversion labor from Aaron- $370
Ford style 75mm TB- $265
GM IAC adapter- $65
Total: $1,180 + shipping costs
Sullivan option:
GMPP intake- $280
Sullivan elbow- $300
Fuel rails & conversion labor from Aaron- $370
4.6L Cobra style TB- $360
GM IAC adapter for Sullivan elbow- $175
Total: $1,485 + shipping costs
Nitro Dave option:
GMPP intake- $280
Nitro Dave elbow- $300
Fuel rails & conversion labor from Aaron- $370
Total: $950 + shipping costs
Which one is the best bang for the buck seems to come down to whether or not you already have a ramair/cowl hood. If you do, Nitro Dave wins. If you don't and have to buy one and pay to have it painted/fitted, then Wilson wins.
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GMRL said no IAC or TPS adapter is needed. But check out the 1200 and 1600 cfm versions. http://www.rpmoutlet.com/musv8bull.htm
This would be nice to have. It's on an L98, but not hard to convert. Shame there's no links :\
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...37&postcount=8
This would be nice to have. It's on an L98, but not hard to convert. Shame there's no links :\
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...37&postcount=8
So the only issues with the Sullivan is it is wider than the LT1 throttle bodies, say Holley offers? I know on their site it said it would bolt to any Holley 4150 square pattern.
Originally Posted by titter
So the only issues with the Sullivan is it is wider than the LT1 throttle bodies, say Holley offers? I know on their site it said it would bolt to any Holley 4150 square pattern.
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I still dont think you need an elbow. IMO the cheapest, easiest way to do it would be to just use and aftermarket 4 bbl Tb like the one linked from holley.
The IAC/TPS sensors provided should work with the PCM.
You may be able to find a machine shop locally to drill/weld the injector bungs onto the GMPP intake for a decent price. Then you could use the stock LT1 fuel rails, it wouldnt be hard to fab up some brackets to hold them onto the manifold.
Use and intake bonnet like these.
Then you may need to use a vacuum distribution block for the brake booster/map sensor/opti vents/FPR/ETC.
Thats the way I would do it, I dont think hood clearance would be a problem.
The IAC/TPS sensors provided should work with the PCM.
You may be able to find a machine shop locally to drill/weld the injector bungs onto the GMPP intake for a decent price. Then you could use the stock LT1 fuel rails, it wouldnt be hard to fab up some brackets to hold them onto the manifold.
Use and intake bonnet like these.
Then you may need to use a vacuum distribution block for the brake booster/map sensor/opti vents/FPR/ETC.
Thats the way I would do it, I dont think hood clearance would be a problem.
Originally Posted by GMRL
I still dont think you need an elbow. IMO the cheapest, easiest way to do it would be to just use and aftermarket 4 bbl Tb like the one linked from holley.
See how close this elbow sits to the front edge of the cowl?:
Whatever gets put over the opening in the top of the intake is going to have to angle forward. A big honkin' carb hat that wraps all the way around the perimeter of the throttle body isn't going to clear.
If you also notice, the intake opening sits just far enough back that the cowl overhangs about half of it. So lets say that you do a crapload of trimming to a carb hat and manage to get it short enough that it fits underneath the cowl. If we take it for granted that afterwards you're still able to get any decent kind've seal with it, then we're onto Problem #2: how are you going to get it on and off without dropping the motor?
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I test fitted a vic jr on my car a while back.. with little more than 1 small dimple with a ball-pein (sp?) hammer I could easily fit a mech. secondary holley carb. a vacuum secondary would be even easier (or anything w/o a secondary metering block). but, a GMPP dual plane intake is actually taller than a vic jr...
seeing as the average holley carb is about 4.5" tall, and the edelbrock 4bbl TB is right at 2 7/16" there's an easy 2" difference in height right there.
I've had this thought out a few months back, already got the intake converted to EFI, new few rails, etc... just haven't had the money to finish it yet.
there is plenty of room under the cowl of an LT1 car if you use a vic jr and a 4-bbl TB. the only thing I was having a problem with, was finding an air-cleaner that would fit right w/o cutting up the cowl. I think the carb hat that has been posted would work great!
now... how bad would a single plane be on a H/C motor?
seeing as the average holley carb is about 4.5" tall, and the edelbrock 4bbl TB is right at 2 7/16" there's an easy 2" difference in height right there.
I've had this thought out a few months back, already got the intake converted to EFI, new few rails, etc... just haven't had the money to finish it yet.
there is plenty of room under the cowl of an LT1 car if you use a vic jr and a 4-bbl TB. the only thing I was having a problem with, was finding an air-cleaner that would fit right w/o cutting up the cowl. I think the carb hat that has been posted would work great!
now... how bad would a single plane be on a H/C motor?