350 LT1's in the 11's?
10-26-2007 | 05:15 PM
#21
11s should be the bar for h/c LT1s. The problem is that many stock cube LT1s are way over cammed, and can neither spin to the rpms neccessary for their cam, nor do their heads flow enough to support the cam. Picking a huge high peak HP cam, spending a ton on great ported heads, then installing in a stock bottom end and being scared to spin past 6300 rpms is not a good way to go fast. Not sure if that is worst then having a strong rebuilt bottom end ready for high rpms w/ a huge cam...but crappy heads that fall on their face at 6k. I see both all the time 
.
I run 11.7xs on DRs on ported stock castings w/ a "baby" custom grind cam(similar to alans cam in his 383) and minimal weight reduction. Also worth saying that I am at sea level or lower DA(central florida), so of course that helps. 3200 stall and stock 3.23 gears. Hoping with slicks and 3.73s to hit mid 11s N/A as the temps drop, we will see. Oh and stock unmolested 10 bolt. Wheel hop is the true enemy, and with full UMI suspension and spohn 25mm rear sway bar(stock is 19) I can launch hard and straight, with very little wheel hop. Personally, I sometimes wonder if many of the broken 10 bolts were from people with self installed Adj tq arms who did not set pinion angle correctly...but that is a whole 'nother topic.
A lot of the slow LT1 times - besides from being overcammed and under headed - are because of lack of supporting mods. Headers/K&N FIPK/catback isnt full supporting mods - you need a quality dyno tune, injectors, good tires, and lots of suspension, etc to run good times in a full weight car.
Look at 96caprice - mild but well matched out setup, would be mid 11s with good weather I would guess in a slightly lightened up f-body. 11.9s is hauling in an over 2 ton boat.
.I run 11.7xs on DRs on ported stock castings w/ a "baby" custom grind cam(similar to alans cam in his 383) and minimal weight reduction. Also worth saying that I am at sea level or lower DA(central florida), so of course that helps. 3200 stall and stock 3.23 gears. Hoping with slicks and 3.73s to hit mid 11s N/A as the temps drop, we will see. Oh and stock unmolested 10 bolt. Wheel hop is the true enemy, and with full UMI suspension and spohn 25mm rear sway bar(stock is 19) I can launch hard and straight, with very little wheel hop. Personally, I sometimes wonder if many of the broken 10 bolts were from people with self installed Adj tq arms who did not set pinion angle correctly...but that is a whole 'nother topic.
A lot of the slow LT1 times - besides from being overcammed and under headed - are because of lack of supporting mods. Headers/K&N FIPK/catback isnt full supporting mods - you need a quality dyno tune, injectors, good tires, and lots of suspension, etc to run good times in a full weight car.
Look at 96caprice - mild but well matched out setup, would be mid 11s with good weather I would guess in a slightly lightened up f-body. 11.9s is hauling in an over 2 ton boat.
10-26-2007 | 05:54 PM
#24
Thread Starter
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Good replies guys! I should have changed the title to 350 LT1's NA in the 11's, but I can't go back and edit it, lol. That's what I originally intended it to be. I checked the "top 50" list and I'm at #49 right behind Lloyd Eliot. I looked up further and saw that there were only 2 or 3 other N/A 350 LT1's in the top 50 so that is what prompted me to make this post. I was hoping there was another detailed list of people in the 11's similar to the LS1 guys, who live and die by those lists.
10-26-2007 | 07:10 PM
#25
Yes it can with 1.6 60ft and 3100# weigh in. At 3600# 12.3-12.4 would be about it. Ive seen a bolt on Lt-1 m6 with 4.10, slicks, and 200# weoght reduction go 12.4 at 108. I went 13.3 @ 107 on a 2.1 60ft, stock 3.42, 17inch street tires and no weight reduction(this was of course was with stock motor and full boltons only!) 4.10 and slicks would of put me mid 12's easily. And Im no small guy standing 6'8"!
Dang it Matt!!! I was just about to accuse all the fast bolt-on cars of being on nitrous, LOL! 
Yep I went 11's back in Feb of 03 I think it was, fun stuff!
10-27-2007 | 08:44 AM
#30
The fastest bolton b-body is 12.3, car is lightened but not cut up. Have spoken to the owner and the way it is setup he barely drives it, wont take it 40 minutes to work. Not being negative just honest. 3925lbs with driver is a good part of that equasion, goes 11.3 on the bottle, and launches hard.
On the "custom cam" thing, the problem with most off the shelf grinds is that the cam companies know what Puck said above, most guys will overcam. As such they compromise the grinds ofyen by widening the LSA to maintain some drivability with too much duration, in the process they hurt output a fair amount. The average guy never realizes how much power his motor is missing with the poorly spec'd cam, but is happy with the drivability so he is a happy customer.
It is not some custom magic or anything it is just a willingness to spec the cam right and talk the customer down from the 242 intake duration cam they want to put in a stock shortblock.
Now sometimes for say emmissions purposes a wide LSA is appropriate but with the smaller hydraulic stuff we should all be running on the street the 112-114 seen in all the catalogues is usually spread from optimal. Not that LSA is a spec that should be choosen, just that if the lobes are in the right place these are usually not the numbers that will result.
On the "custom cam" thing, the problem with most off the shelf grinds is that the cam companies know what Puck said above, most guys will overcam. As such they compromise the grinds ofyen by widening the LSA to maintain some drivability with too much duration, in the process they hurt output a fair amount. The average guy never realizes how much power his motor is missing with the poorly spec'd cam, but is happy with the drivability so he is a happy customer.
It is not some custom magic or anything it is just a willingness to spec the cam right and talk the customer down from the 242 intake duration cam they want to put in a stock shortblock.
Now sometimes for say emmissions purposes a wide LSA is appropriate but with the smaller hydraulic stuff we should all be running on the street the 112-114 seen in all the catalogues is usually spread from optimal. Not that LSA is a spec that should be choosen, just that if the lobes are in the right place these are usually not the numbers that will result.
10-27-2007 | 11:25 AM
#31
So caprice do you think my 114 lsa is costing me some power? This was cam was ground for forced induction. I sold the blower and currently running this cam na. I was told it would still work well with a 383? you seem to know your stuff, so give some advice. I really dont care about being down a few horsepower, just a street warrior on a stock rearend.
Last edited by kinglt-1; 10-27-2007 at 03:21 PM.
10-27-2007 | 03:00 PM
#32
I checked the "top 50" list and I'm at #49 right behind Lloyd Eliot. I looked up further and saw that there were only 2 or 3 other N/A 350 LT1's in the top 50 so that is what prompted me to make this post. I was hoping there was another detailed list of people in the 11's similar to the LS1 guys, who live and die by those lists.
. If I was really stuck on numbers I most definetly wouldn't have choosen an LT1 to build up 
.It is true about the saying that their are more 10 second cars on the internet then on the streets, but still the automotive world is much more wide spread then the internet!
10-28-2007 | 08:15 AM
#33
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Joined: Oct 2007
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There are very few people, myself included, who even bother posting times into "top" boards. I can promise you that even among the LS1 members there are a ton of guys who would be very high up there but do not even submit any times. My current best of 11.71 on DRs N/A would put also squeeze me right at #49, and as the weather cools down here in florida I may go for broke with slicks and gears w/ some weight reduction and shoot for +/-11.5...but to be frank, who really cares??? It is just a fun street car for me, not a race car, so seeing my name on a list is not as important to me as seeing my times at the track . If I was really stuck on numbers I most definetly wouldn't have choosen an LT1 to build up .
It is true about the saying that their are more 10 second cars on the internet then on the streets, but still the automotive world is much more wide spread then the internet!
. If I was really stuck on numbers I most definetly wouldn't have choosen an LT1 to build up .It is true about the saying that their are more 10 second cars on the internet then on the streets, but still the automotive world is much more wide spread then the internet!
LOL, i see your point. It was just kinda funny to me that after I ran my times, I checked the list and saw that I'd actually make it on there. I figured a lot of guys were hiding out somewhere, and i made the post to see if I could find out where. The LS1 guys live and die by those lists, just take a look at how competitive they get, everything is 'top 50" with bump spots and so-on. It's just nice to know where you stand against other cars with similar mods/setups, but i can't really tell when I'm in the middle of a list with 383's on nitrous, or prochargers and whatnot. Again, I originally intended the title to be N/A cars 350 (stock) in the 11's, that would weed it out a bunch.
10-28-2007 | 04:10 PM
#34
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,265
Likes: 1
From: CHITOWN
11s should be the bar for h/c LT1s. The problem is that many stock cube LT1s are way over cammed, and can neither spin to the rpms neccessary for their cam, nor do their heads flow enough to support the cam. Picking a huge high peak HP cam, spending a ton on great ported heads, then installing in a stock bottom end and being scared to spin past 6300 rpms is not a good way to go fast. Not sure if that is worst then having a strong rebuilt bottom end ready for high rpms w/ a huge cam...but crappy heads that fall on their face at 6k. I see both all the time .
I run 11.7xs on DRs on ported stock castings w/ a "baby" custom grind cam(similar to alans cam in his 383) and minimal weight reduction. Also worth saying that I am at sea level or lower DA(central florida), so of course that helps. 3200 stall and stock 3.23 gears. Hoping with slicks and 3.73s to hit mid 11s N/A as the temps drop, we will see. Oh and stock unmolested 10 bolt. Wheel hop is the true enemy, and with full UMI suspension and spohn 25mm rear sway bar(stock is 19) I can launch hard and straight, with very little wheel hop. Personally, I sometimes wonder if many of the broken 10 bolts were from people with self installed Adj tq arms who did not set pinion angle correctly...but that is a whole 'nother topic.
A lot of the slow LT1 times - besides from being overcammed and under headed - are because of lack of supporting mods. Headers/K&N FIPK/catback isnt full supporting mods - you need a quality dyno tune, injectors, good tires, and lots of suspension, etc to run good times in a full weight car.
Look at 96caprice - mild but well matched out setup, would be mid 11s with good weather I would guess in a slightly lightened up f-body. 11.9s is hauling in an over 2 ton boat.
.I run 11.7xs on DRs on ported stock castings w/ a "baby" custom grind cam(similar to alans cam in his 383) and minimal weight reduction. Also worth saying that I am at sea level or lower DA(central florida), so of course that helps. 3200 stall and stock 3.23 gears. Hoping with slicks and 3.73s to hit mid 11s N/A as the temps drop, we will see. Oh and stock unmolested 10 bolt. Wheel hop is the true enemy, and with full UMI suspension and spohn 25mm rear sway bar(stock is 19) I can launch hard and straight, with very little wheel hop. Personally, I sometimes wonder if many of the broken 10 bolts were from people with self installed Adj tq arms who did not set pinion angle correctly...but that is a whole 'nother topic.
A lot of the slow LT1 times - besides from being overcammed and under headed - are because of lack of supporting mods. Headers/K&N FIPK/catback isnt full supporting mods - you need a quality dyno tune, injectors, good tires, and lots of suspension, etc to run good times in a full weight car.
Look at 96caprice - mild but well matched out setup, would be mid 11s with good weather I would guess in a slightly lightened up f-body. 11.9s is hauling in an over 2 ton boat.
You know thats not the case, its bad head ports and cams that are not matched well to the heads also
And there are alot of big camonly LT1 running around putting down fast times
Its all about how you setup the car, and what it is ment for
I see hogged out heads, with baby dick cams putting out weak times and even weaker numbers....Goes both ways
10-28-2007 | 04:12 PM
#35
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,265
Likes: 1
From: CHITOWN
The fastest bolton b-body is 12.3, car is lightened but not cut up. Have spoken to the owner and the way it is setup he barely drives it, wont take it 40 minutes to work. Not being negative just honest. 3925lbs with driver is a good part of that equasion, goes 11.3 on the bottle, and launches hard.
On the "custom cam" thing, the problem with most off the shelf grinds is that the cam companies know what Puck said above, most guys will overcam. As such they compromise the grinds ofyen by widening the LSA to maintain some drivability with too much duration, in the process they hurt output a fair amount. The average guy never realizes how much power his motor is missing with the poorly spec'd cam, but is happy with the drivability so he is a happy customer.
It is not some custom magic or anything it is just a willingness to spec the cam right and talk the customer down from the 242 intake duration cam they want to put in a stock shortblock.
Now sometimes for say emmissions purposes a wide LSA is appropriate but with the smaller hydraulic stuff we should all be running on the street the 112-114 seen in all the catalogues is usually spread from optimal. Not that LSA is a spec that should be choosen, just that if the lobes are in the right place these are usually not the numbers that will result.
On the "custom cam" thing, the problem with most off the shelf grinds is that the cam companies know what Puck said above, most guys will overcam. As such they compromise the grinds ofyen by widening the LSA to maintain some drivability with too much duration, in the process they hurt output a fair amount. The average guy never realizes how much power his motor is missing with the poorly spec'd cam, but is happy with the drivability so he is a happy customer.
It is not some custom magic or anything it is just a willingness to spec the cam right and talk the customer down from the 242 intake duration cam they want to put in a stock shortblock.
Now sometimes for say emmissions purposes a wide LSA is appropriate but with the smaller hydraulic stuff we should all be running on the street the 112-114 seen in all the catalogues is usually spread from optimal. Not that LSA is a spec that should be choosen, just that if the lobes are in the right place these are usually not the numbers that will result.
10-28-2007 | 06:19 PM
#36
You know thats not the case, its bad head ports and cams that are not matched well to the heads also
And there are alot of big camonly LT1 running around putting down fast times
Its all about how you setup the car, and what it is ment for
I see hogged out heads, with baby dick cams putting out weak times and even weaker numbers....Goes both ways
And there are alot of big camonly LT1 running around putting down fast times
Its all about how you setup the car, and what it is ment for
I see hogged out heads, with baby dick cams putting out weak times and even weaker numbers....Goes both ways
On a street application, almost always small cam'd car with great heads will run faster times then a huge race grind with crappy stock heads.
I'm not talking huge "square lobe" race LT1s with 5k stalls, 4.33 gears, and a 2900lb race weight here, but the majority of our modded LT1s that see street duty.
10-29-2007 | 08:55 AM
#37
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: Southern Maryland
1/4 times listing Let me try to throw in the "other" LT1 powered GM platform into the heads/cam 350LT1 discussion.
Here is a link to the 94-96 Impala SS 1/4 times page (and other related b-bodies).
Sorted by "power" (scroll until you see the motor guys).
http://dan.esteban.com/impalass/Retu...SelectedClass=
Lotsa good LT1 combos can be found on that web page even though these are in B-body Chevy cars.
But note:
Only 4 Impala SS cars are in the 11's all natural with heads/cam 350LT1.
The combo variety is nice to see in that list.
One guy, (Ryan Ahart) hit 11's in Texas at 77F/89% humidity with heads some would say are too big (AFR 210cc) and a cam that is too big, (Comp 306).
I would say they are too big for the heavy car and the 350LT but they worked for him.
Hopefully there will be more and more Fbodies and Bbodies in the 11's (natural heads/cam 350LT1's). The head and cam quality seem to improve every year and people are finding all kinds of neat combos that work well for the street and strip.
I've had doggy combos in the past until I found the right torque converter to seemingly breath new life into the motor. (wake it up in a big way). Sometimes it seems my motor is a slave to the torque converter.
Karl Ellwein
PS:
Only 3 Impala SS (and other cool bbodies) are in the 10's all natural
Here is a link to the 94-96 Impala SS 1/4 times page (and other related b-bodies).
Sorted by "power" (scroll until you see the motor guys).
http://dan.esteban.com/impalass/Retu...SelectedClass=
Lotsa good LT1 combos can be found on that web page even though these are in B-body Chevy cars.
But note:
Only 4 Impala SS cars are in the 11's all natural with heads/cam 350LT1.
The combo variety is nice to see in that list.
One guy, (Ryan Ahart) hit 11's in Texas at 77F/89% humidity with heads some would say are too big (AFR 210cc) and a cam that is too big, (Comp 306).
I would say they are too big for the heavy car and the 350LT but they worked for him.
Hopefully there will be more and more Fbodies and Bbodies in the 11's (natural heads/cam 350LT1's). The head and cam quality seem to improve every year and people are finding all kinds of neat combos that work well for the street and strip.
I've had doggy combos in the past until I found the right torque converter to seemingly breath new life into the motor. (wake it up in a big way). Sometimes it seems my motor is a slave to the torque converter.
Karl Ellwein
PS:
Only 3 Impala SS (and other cool bbodies) are in the 10's all natural
10-29-2007 | 03:28 PM
#39
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Mine is 11 sec "capable". I say that because it turns 115 mph through full exhaust with cats (and all the other smog crap) at nearly 3800 lbs... NA. I haven't had sticky tire on it yet and as such can't put it to the floor until 3rd gear. And this has a small (low 220's duration) cam in it.
