Help me with valve springs
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Teching In
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 42
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Help me with valve springs I don't know much about valvetrain components and trying to figure out the price difference between the LT4 cam kit or going with the cc503,rr, and springs. I think someone said that the 94's came with hardend pushrods, so i should be ok there?? I see that most go with the 918's for springs. Would buying a cheap spring like these be so bad??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m29
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COMP-...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m29
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COMP-...QQcmdZViewItem
In the automotive world you get what you pay for. The cheap springs probably wear out faster. Deff. go with the cc503, just my opinion since i got it and love it. Driveability is great and so is the power.
Got suggestions for my set up from Stealthformula, but ive also heard that porksoda has a stable set up with some non-selfaligning rr's.
Got suggestions for my set up from Stealthformula, but ive also heard that porksoda has a stable set up with some non-selfaligning rr's.
I have a basically stock '96 Z-28. I had nothing to do, a couple of winters ago, while the car was off the road, so I threw in a set of the LT-4 springs and retainers. Got them brand new for $75 + shipping from Scoggin-Dickey. They work OK for me.
One word of caution...Don't install too stiff a spring with a hydraulic lifter.
One word of caution...Don't install too stiff a spring with a hydraulic lifter.
I believe the lift of the cc503 with 1.6rr's is .536/.544. Its always good to go with springs that are rated at least .040 lift over the cams specs. The springs that Stealthformula suggested to me (crane 10308-1) are rated at .600 lift i believe. They're dual springs and have held up well for me and Stealth. The kit includes springs, retainers, and valve locks.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
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I was originally going to run Comp 987 dual springs for my cc306 but after buying them I found out that the heads need to be machined for them to fit. Had I done more research I wouldn't have made that mistake. I ended up going with 918s and am worried that they will break after reading on cz28.com about people having theirs break.
If I had to do it over again, I would go with either some Crane 10308's or the PAC version of the 918. PAC was the original maker of the 918 beehives until Comp cheaped out and went someplace else.
If I had to do it over again, I would go with either some Crane 10308's or the PAC version of the 918. PAC was the original maker of the 918 beehives until Comp cheaped out and went someplace else.
The Crane 10308-1's are about the best "inexpensive" spring set up.
I would not use them on a .600 lift but they are fine for most loves up to .570-.580 lift. The retainers are pretty heavy though and as longa s it is a 6400-6500 RPM set up or less, you should be fine.
They will handle the CC 503 cam with out even breathing hard.
Lloyd
I would not use them on a .600 lift but they are fine for most loves up to .570-.580 lift. The retainers are pretty heavy though and as longa s it is a 6400-6500 RPM set up or less, you should be fine.
They will handle the CC 503 cam with out even breathing hard.
Lloyd
lloyd how do you feel about these springs on the 847 cam that im running? ive had no problems but i plan on selling the cam and springs as a set up unless you dont think its a good combination. you said they would work fine when you had my heads, but from what you just said, it seems you dont think its the "best" spring for my set up. i just dont want to sell someone the cam and springs, and then they break.
those GM 847 lobes are fine with that 10308-1 spring and retainer.
you can always spend more $$$ and get a better spring.
The PAC 1218's are what I use and you can even spens more $$$ and get a PAC 1518 spring. I would suggest the PAC bee hives since they control the valves on some aggressive lobes with a reasonable amount of pressure allowing them to work with cast cams, normal lifters, $80-140 pushrods, normals studs, etc. The steel retainers are smalla nd light also. You can get springs, retainers, locks and locators for $300 or so.
You can always use more pressure and control the valve better. PSI and Isky tool room springs are $400 and a dbl spring really needs a Ti retainer to keep the wt down so add $240 (or more) there plus locks and locators. These will also require a Morel or Comp R lifterr for the pressure, billet cams, GOOD rockers, studs, etc.
Lloyd
you can always spend more $$$ and get a better spring.
The PAC 1218's are what I use and you can even spens more $$$ and get a PAC 1518 spring. I would suggest the PAC bee hives since they control the valves on some aggressive lobes with a reasonable amount of pressure allowing them to work with cast cams, normal lifters, $80-140 pushrods, normals studs, etc. The steel retainers are smalla nd light also. You can get springs, retainers, locks and locators for $300 or so.
You can always use more pressure and control the valve better. PSI and Isky tool room springs are $400 and a dbl spring really needs a Ti retainer to keep the wt down so add $240 (or more) there plus locks and locators. These will also require a Morel or Comp R lifterr for the pressure, billet cams, GOOD rockers, studs, etc.
Lloyd
those GM 847 lobes are fine with that 10308-1 spring and retainer.
you can always spend more $$$ and get a better spring.
The PAC 1218's are what I use and you can even spens more $$$ and get a PAC 1518 spring. I would suggest the PAC bee hives since they control the valves on some aggressive lobes with a reasonable amount of pressure allowing them to work with cast cams, normal lifters, $80-140 pushrods, normals studs, etc. The steel retainers are smalla nd light also. You can get springs, retainers, locks and locators for $300 or so.
You can always use more pressure and control the valve better. PSI and Isky tool room springs are $400 and a dbl spring really needs a Ti retainer to keep the wt down so add $240 (or more) there plus locks and locators. These will also require a Morel or Comp R lifterr for the pressure, billet cams, GOOD rockers, studs, etc.
Lloyd
you can always spend more $$$ and get a better spring.
The PAC 1218's are what I use and you can even spens more $$$ and get a PAC 1518 spring. I would suggest the PAC bee hives since they control the valves on some aggressive lobes with a reasonable amount of pressure allowing them to work with cast cams, normal lifters, $80-140 pushrods, normals studs, etc. The steel retainers are smalla nd light also. You can get springs, retainers, locks and locators for $300 or so.
You can always use more pressure and control the valve better. PSI and Isky tool room springs are $400 and a dbl spring really needs a Ti retainer to keep the wt down so add $240 (or more) there plus locks and locators. These will also require a Morel or Comp R lifterr for the pressure, billet cams, GOOD rockers, studs, etc.
Lloyd
To retainers jumped up to $240 a set.
The steel ones are $50 or so and the weight difference is not much (7g vs 11g).
The dbl springs have a much larger diameter retainer and there is ahuge weight difference (10g vs 30-35g).
I use the steel retainers for cost reasons but if a customer wants to shave the weight and has the coin, I have no problem upgrading him.
Lloyd
The steel ones are $50 or so and the weight difference is not much (7g vs 11g).
The dbl springs have a much larger diameter retainer and there is ahuge weight difference (10g vs 30-35g).
I use the steel retainers for cost reasons but if a customer wants to shave the weight and has the coin, I have no problem upgrading him.
Lloyd
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
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You can run the 503 cam with a set of LT4 springs IF YOU KEEP THE 1.5 ratio rockers. The LT4 springs are good up to .525 lift. The 503 cam is .503/.510 with a 1.5 rocker. The LT4 springs are dirt cheap ( I think I paid like 35 bucks for springs reatainers and locks), and were used on production GM vehicles (Grand Sport Vette) so you know they are up to the durability test of a daily driven car.
The LT4 hot cam springs will have about 100 lbs on the seat and 280 lbs open. Almost ANY hyd roller cam needs at least 120 lbs on the seat and most would like to see 130 lbs or more on all hyd roller cams and 145-150 lbs on the seat with aggressive hyd roller cams.
Luckily the Hot Cam has some lazy lobes that slowly open and close the valves so it is able to get away with this low amount of spring pressure.
Even if the spring doesn't coil bind, it really doesn't have enough pressure to be used on aftremarket cams that open/shut the valves faster. I would NOT use those springs on ANY Comp XE cam.
I am not saying there are people out there that have run them with no problems on aftermarket cams but there are people that have had problems also and I would not wanna fall in that catagory.
I would rather spens a lil more $$$ on springs and oly have to change them once. It would suck having to change springs on the car and if you are lucky, you will only be changing springs at that time since if the spring broke, you could have dropped a valve, destroyed the engine, etc.
All in all, this is a worse case scenario but I would not take the chance for the $$$ involved in getting a better spring compared to the $$$ involved if things go bad.
Lloyd
Luckily the Hot Cam has some lazy lobes that slowly open and close the valves so it is able to get away with this low amount of spring pressure.
Even if the spring doesn't coil bind, it really doesn't have enough pressure to be used on aftremarket cams that open/shut the valves faster. I would NOT use those springs on ANY Comp XE cam.
I am not saying there are people out there that have run them with no problems on aftermarket cams but there are people that have had problems also and I would not wanna fall in that catagory.
I would rather spens a lil more $$$ on springs and oly have to change them once. It would suck having to change springs on the car and if you are lucky, you will only be changing springs at that time since if the spring broke, you could have dropped a valve, destroyed the engine, etc.
All in all, this is a worse case scenario but I would not take the chance for the $$$ involved in getting a better spring compared to the $$$ involved if things go bad.
Lloyd
You can run the 503 cam with a set of LT4 springs IF YOU KEEP THE 1.5 ratio rockers. The LT4 springs are good up to .525 lift. The 503 cam is .503/.510 with a 1.5 rocker. The LT4 springs are dirt cheap ( I think I paid like 35 bucks for springs reatainers and locks), and were used on production GM vehicles (Grand Sport Vette) so you know they are up to the durability test of a daily driven car.
LT4 springs might be good to .525 lift but they have no where near the spring pressure required to control the xe lobes...
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
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Sorry for the bad advice. I ran them without any problems for a full year. Then I got the 918 beehives with a set of 1.6 rockers, and broke one inside of a month, go figure. I didn't realize that the XE lobes have some crazy-outrageous hard on parts ramp rates.
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 212
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From: NC
Your spring failure was not caused by your camshaft. It was a manufacturing defect.
