383 hp loss
With all the vacuum, cranking compression and bad setup/clueless owner(trying to learn but has offere a LOT of bad info sofar) problems I think this is just a wild blind "has to be the opti" guess based on nothing more than internet stupidity claiming a good part is not.
Many of us have never had any major opti problems.
I have put over 50K on my wagon since I bought it at 172K and over 130K on my sedan since I bought it at 50K, do the math there my low milage car is 180K miles and I only ever had one car run rough because of an opti cap and rotor being worn out. That is the only opti problem I ever had. Sure some guys do have problems but people are WAY WAY too quick to jump on that bandwagon.
If you can explain how the opti would cause the compression and vacuum issues that have been MEASYRED please share.
the converter could slow a car down bigtime. i dont think it could cause hard starting or some of the other problems you described but a stock converter on a car with a cc306 is not a good idea. do yourslef a favor and while you have it apart, put a good converter in it. once you get your other prolems sorted out that thing will fly.
Have you checked to see if the cam jumped time like FASTFATBOY suggested?
Even if the converter is ruined that still does not explain the nearly 100psi low compression. Honestly it would be best if that result was operator error, would be the cheapest thing to fix.
Even if the converter is ruined that still does not explain the nearly 100psi low compression. Honestly it would be best if that result was operator error, would be the cheapest thing to fix.
k. as i explained to the owner ATAY. didnt understand me right. the grooves i told him were not put into the splash gaurd in the pan. so he interpreted it as that. but anyway. the car hard start was just a couple times. but the car starts right up now. but the only concern i have is that this thing ran great and then just started to act as it lost a **** load of power. but i think that this torque convertor wont hurt it at all to change. we are using a newer one with lower milage. but i figure if the convertor goes then the thing will still move but not have the torque multiplication that its supposed to have. the opti would at least send a code. and if not the motor would miss like hell. i had an opti go bad and i know kinda some symtoms. we tested some **** and all. never did get to the timing gear checking. i will cehck that monday. we did cehck the o2s.
what parts are new--
ignition coil
MAF
MAP
iat
iac
temp sensors
knock sensor
we are changing the convertor and checking the timing. i will have updates on the motor and car.
what parts are new--
ignition coil
MAF
MAP
iat
iac
temp sensors
knock sensor
we are changing the convertor and checking the timing. i will have updates on the motor and car.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Downingtown, PA
The funniest thing in this post is how some know it all thinks a fuel injected car can't be made to run without an O2 sensor. 
Go tell that to Germans that raced FI cars long before the invention of an O2 sensor. But hey, please use the O2's, they're a good thing for managing emissions.
I can't see how it would be the TC. A TC isn't that complex and it'll either work or not. Does it drive right when you're not ******* it?
I'd suspect the timing chain has jumped and definitely make sure the ECT in the WP housing is good and properly hooked up. If it's dead or not hooked up, the PCM will think it's -40f and it will run pig rich and be very hard to start.
Go tell that to Germans that raced FI cars long before the invention of an O2 sensor. But hey, please use the O2's, they're a good thing for managing emissions.I can't see how it would be the TC. A TC isn't that complex and it'll either work or not. Does it drive right when you're not ******* it?
I'd suspect the timing chain has jumped and definitely make sure the ECT in the WP housing is good and properly hooked up. If it's dead or not hooked up, the PCM will think it's -40f and it will run pig rich and be very hard to start.
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The funniest thing in this post is how some know it all thinks a fuel injected car can't be made to run without an O2 sensor. Go tell that to Germans that raced FI cars long before the invention of an O2 sensor. But hey, please use the O2's, they're a good thing for managing emissions.
Go tell that to Germans that raced FI cars long before the invention of an O2 sensor. But hey, please use the O2's, they're a good thing for managing emissions. Teching In
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Downingtown, PA
One other very likely possibility is a bad ground reference signal to the PCM. The PCM uses a few ground reference signal wires for all of the sensors, and losing just one could take out several vital sensors.
As for the O2 statement. Upon initial startup, the car is in open loop and as such it does not use the O2 sensors. You can quite clearly run an EFI engine in open loop and it will run quite well. I've got plenty of DM logs from runs at the track where the entire run was in open loop. Likewise, if this problem is related to the O2's then it would be easy to diagnose by starting up the car cold, then taking it for a quick romp to see if it experiences the power loss while in open loop.
I'm sorry I upset you, Jon. I was poking fun at posts in general, not specifically you, that I perceived as arrogant and completely ignorant. If that hurt your feelings then I apologise. I guess it just proves that two wrongs don't make a right. I won't throw out loose insult if you can do the same.
As for the O2 statement. Upon initial startup, the car is in open loop and as such it does not use the O2 sensors. You can quite clearly run an EFI engine in open loop and it will run quite well. I've got plenty of DM logs from runs at the track where the entire run was in open loop. Likewise, if this problem is related to the O2's then it would be easy to diagnose by starting up the car cold, then taking it for a quick romp to see if it experiences the power loss while in open loop.
I'm sorry I upset you, Jon. I was poking fun at posts in general, not specifically you, that I perceived as arrogant and completely ignorant. If that hurt your feelings then I apologise. I guess it just proves that two wrongs don't make a right. I won't throw out loose insult if you can do the same.
One other very likely possibility is a bad ground reference signal to the PCM. The PCM uses a few ground reference signal wires for all of the sensors, and losing just one could take out several vital sensors.
As for the O2 statement. Upon initial startup, the car is in open loop and as such it does not use the O2 sensors. You can quite clearly run an EFI engine in open loop and it will run quite well. I've got plenty of DM logs from runs at the track where the entire run was in open loop. Likewise, if this problem is related to the O2's then it would be easy to diagnose by starting up the car cold, then taking it for a quick romp to see if it experiences the power loss while in open loop.
I'm sorry I upset you, Jon. I was poking fun at posts in general, not specifically you, that I perceived as arrogant and completely ignorant. If that hurt your feelings then I apologise. I guess it just proves that two wrongs don't make a right. I won't throw out loose insult if you can do the same.
As for the O2 statement. Upon initial startup, the car is in open loop and as such it does not use the O2 sensors. You can quite clearly run an EFI engine in open loop and it will run quite well. I've got plenty of DM logs from runs at the track where the entire run was in open loop. Likewise, if this problem is related to the O2's then it would be easy to diagnose by starting up the car cold, then taking it for a quick romp to see if it experiences the power loss while in open loop.
I'm sorry I upset you, Jon. I was poking fun at posts in general, not specifically you, that I perceived as arrogant and completely ignorant. If that hurt your feelings then I apologise. I guess it just proves that two wrongs don't make a right. I won't throw out loose insult if you can do the same.
You were just poking fun at posts in general but, I was just poking fun at yours. And don't feel bad it doesn't normally hurt my feelings to read dumb **** on the internet. It was a complete pointless post, with evidently no thought behind it. I don't believe that anyone said that you couldn't run with out 02s. So to bring up some old german technology is slightly irrelevant. Maybe you're on the wrong board?
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Downingtown, PA
As has been mentioned, the static compression is way too low. I've run a similar cam on a 350 and it's around 190. If the timing chain did jump the sprocket, then the cam could be retarded and the intake is opening late and closing late, thus reducing DCR. The piston would also be getting closer to the exhaust valve now, which is dangerous.
Also, the vacuum is way off. Where did you hook up the vacuum gauge, which port? It has to be a non ported source. Try to get a good reading with the vacuum gauge, it's a great tool if all else fails. http://www.centuryperformance.com/vacuum.asp
About the temp sensor, just because it's new doesn't mean it's working. If the ground reference signal is cut, then it isn't working from a PCM perspective. Take it to Advanced or AutoZone and have them check to see if the PCM sees the correct temp. You can use DM for this, if you have the right cable. It's easy to use and shows you the engine temp on the main screen, at the top. Likewise, it will show you real time DTC codes.
Also, the vacuum is way off. Where did you hook up the vacuum gauge, which port? It has to be a non ported source. Try to get a good reading with the vacuum gauge, it's a great tool if all else fails. http://www.centuryperformance.com/vacuum.asp
About the temp sensor, just because it's new doesn't mean it's working. If the ground reference signal is cut, then it isn't working from a PCM perspective. Take it to Advanced or AutoZone and have them check to see if the PCM sees the correct temp. You can use DM for this, if you have the right cable. It's easy to use and shows you the engine temp on the main screen, at the top. Likewise, it will show you real time DTC codes.
ok. this thread wasnt opened for people to ******* argue. we are trying to get a car running. now if somoneone wants to help please stay in this forum. if not dont say anything. i will check everything when the motor goes back in
i understand what your point was. if the pcm isnt sending the right **** out. or recieving then it has nothing to adjust other stuff to. soo in turn for example. if the map sensor voltage is being dropped somewhere along the way. then the motor will run off of the MAF readings. if it loses that signal then its like a paper weight.
alright. i checked the timing marks. they are good while #1 is at TDC. cleaned the whole motor up. noticed paint was kinda fucked up looking on the TQ convertor as paint would do when it is severely heated up. soo hopefully. replaced pan gasket. and timing cover seals and gaskets. i forgot to tell everyone that this motor will not run in speed density mode. if you tune it for MAP readings only or unplug MAF so it runs in SD mode. it will start and run for about .5 seconds and die. anyone know what to look for?
I will bet you $1,000 to a bottle of **** that it is not the TQ converter. If you put that motor back in that car and only change the converter you will be pulling it back out . You said the engine was already out pull the oil pan .Look around see what you see. It won't cost that much to tear the enging down and fresshen it up .With your low cranking compression somthings wrong. Besides at least then you will know exactly what is in the engine.Fresh machine work and rings ,bearing and gaskets could be the cheapest way to go instead of putting it back in the car and throwing a rod through the block.