Check Twice, Cut Once
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Canada
Check Twice, Cut Once got my new msd opti today. woohoo!!! now then. there is a little baggie in the bottem of the box with
1- square o-ring
1- normal o-ring
3 new hex bolts
im guessing the hex bolts are new ones for mounting it to the motor
my question is, WTF are the o-rings for???? do i needa worrie about them?? they are just extras right?? this thing is plug and play as far as i can tell... thought id check and make sure now befor i start the guessing game of putting everything back together 2morrow
1- square o-ring
1- normal o-ring
3 new hex bolts
im guessing the hex bolts are new ones for mounting it to the motor
my question is, WTF are the o-rings for???? do i needa worrie about them?? they are just extras right?? this thing is plug and play as far as i can tell... thought id check and make sure now befor i start the guessing game of putting everything back together 2morrow
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2005
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The only bad thing about them is theres no timing mark, so once you've messed around with it with no mark its tough to get it back to where its suppose to be.
This isnt a post trying to be a dick, just a few people post problems with it and OMG its junk.
I agree since i dont mess with my timing i shouldve probably got a stock replacement, but for the money i got it for it was the same cost as the ac replacement so its not a big deal. my .02 sorry.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 417
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From: Canada
i went with this one becuse i wanted some thing new, its red *+10 points* its got a retoro fit vac harness soo my unvented style opti is now a vented *wonders how that is going to hack boost, will deal with that later*
ok soo i need install the o-ring and loc-tight the rotor??
rotor is loc tighted. i put on the square o-ring, its sat nice and flat and i out the cap back on. how can i tell if it stayed that way or is gunna be one of those userer errors?
ok soo i need install the o-ring and loc-tight the rotor??
rotor is loc tighted. i put on the square o-ring, its sat nice and flat and i out the cap back on. how can i tell if it stayed that way or is gunna be one of those userer errors?
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Im kinda tired of hearing this, the reason people have issues with them is installer errors, people not getting the oring on right and having rotor to have contact, hell people do that on stock opti's too.
The only bad thing about them is theres no timing mark, so once you've messed around with it with no mark its tough to get it back to where its suppose to be.
This isnt a post trying to be a dick, just a few people post problems with it and OMG its junk.
I agree since i dont mess with my timing i shouldve probably got a stock replacement, but for the money i got it for it was the same cost as the ac replacement so its not a big deal. my .02 sorry.
The only bad thing about them is theres no timing mark, so once you've messed around with it with no mark its tough to get it back to where its suppose to be.
This isnt a post trying to be a dick, just a few people post problems with it and OMG its junk.
I agree since i dont mess with my timing i shouldve probably got a stock replacement, but for the money i got it for it was the same cost as the ac replacement so its not a big deal. my .02 sorry.
No, some of the most advanced users who have tried the MSD opti have gone back to stock, it is the middleground and slow cars that have owners swearing this is the best thing ever.
Far as this converting to vented opti well a $150 cap and rotor would have done that.
The MSD opti is vastly more troubleprone than stock and it is a bad idea to install it without a keyed hub degreed damper and fabricated pointer so you can verify timing, otherwise you are guessing they did it right but they can't get the rotor tight or the o-ring right so that is a mightly big leap of faith.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Canada
woudlent u have to change cranks to use a keyed damper??
coudlent u also zero it out by getting TDC, and making sure that the roter is right around the 1' prong thing*dont know that proper name for it*
just thought it might be a good invest ment as i plan on doing the motor next winter...hope its not going to bite me in the ***
coudlent u also zero it out by getting TDC, and making sure that the roter is right around the 1' prong thing*dont know that proper name for it*
just thought it might be a good invest ment as i plan on doing the motor next winter...hope its not going to bite me in the ***
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 231
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No, some of the most advanced users who have tried the MSD opti have gone back to stock, it is the middleground and slow cars that have owners swearing this is the best thing ever.
Far as this converting to vented opti well a $150 cap and rotor would have done that.
The MSD opti is vastly more troubleprone than stock and it is a bad idea to install it without a keyed hub degreed damper and fabricated pointer so you can verify timing, otherwise you are guessing they did it right but they can't get the rotor tight or the o-ring right so that is a mightly big leap of faith.
Far as this converting to vented opti well a $150 cap and rotor would have done that.
The MSD opti is vastly more troubleprone than stock and it is a bad idea to install it without a keyed hub degreed damper and fabricated pointer so you can verify timing, otherwise you are guessing they did it right but they can't get the rotor tight or the o-ring right so that is a mightly big leap of faith.
woudlent u have to change cranks to use a keyed damper??
coudlent u also zero it out by getting TDC, and making sure that the roter is right around the 1' prong thing*dont know that proper name for it*
just thought it might be a good invest ment as i plan on doing the motor next winter...hope its not going to bite me in the ***
coudlent u also zero it out by getting TDC, and making sure that the roter is right around the 1' prong thing*dont know that proper name for it*
just thought it might be a good invest ment as i plan on doing the motor next winter...hope its not going to bite me in the ***
Putting the crank at TDC has noting to do with anything.
Checking the location of the rotor compared to where it "should" be at TDC is meaningless too because the MSD opti "adjusts" timing by lying to the pcm about engine position.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...0&postcount=35
Guy who made that post manages to make a 4500lbs car run over 146mph in the quarter and been invited to the last two Pump Gas Drags, last year faulty wheel stud from Moser took him out of competition. He also manages to do this with a 4L60E and 8.5" 10bolt, the engine is a Donovan aluminum block converted to accept everything LT1 specific including the opti and WP. At the top you can click and read the whole thread. 1FAST94 runs 10.8 NA in an Impala at over 3800lbs.
Common thread I see is guys who like to overengineer and end up with mediocre results love the MSD and LTCC/Delteq while many guys who actually understand things and get results like the stock piece. If given a choice I will listen to the guy with a grasp of reality over the one who can so no further than a drawing every time. What works on paper does not necessarily work in reality and when this kind of cash is involved people will often convionce themselves of things that are false.
First thing I did to my car was a Jacob's Ignition and I loved it at the time, in hindsight it was complete garbage did noting but eat plugs and wires and cause problems I spent months chasing and replacing good parts. I am the rarity though in my ability to admit mistakes.
The keyed hub is so you can use a degreed damper and have it be accurate and check timing with a light, "checking" it by looking at mechanical positions of stuff is completely meaningless.
Checking the location of the rotor compared to where it "should" be at TDC is meaningless too because the MSD opti "adjusts" timing by lying to the pcm about engine position.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...0&postcount=35
Guy who made that post manages to make a 4500lbs car run over 146mph in the quarter and been invited to the last two Pump Gas Drags, last year faulty wheel stud from Moser took him out of competition. He also manages to do this with a 4L60E and 8.5" 10bolt, the engine is a Donovan aluminum block converted to accept everything LT1 specific including the opti and WP. At the top you can click and read the whole thread. 1FAST94 runs 10.8 NA in an Impala at over 3800lbs.
Common thread I see is guys who like to overengineer and end up with mediocre results love the MSD and LTCC/Delteq while many guys who actually understand things and get results like the stock piece. If given a choice I will listen to the guy with a grasp of reality over the one who can so no further than a drawing every time. What works on paper does not necessarily work in reality and when this kind of cash is involved people will often convionce themselves of things that are false.
First thing I did to my car was a Jacob's Ignition and I loved it at the time, in hindsight it was complete garbage did noting but eat plugs and wires and cause problems I spent months chasing and replacing good parts. I am the rarity though in my ability to admit mistakes.
The keyed hub is so you can use a degreed damper and have it be accurate and check timing with a light, "checking" it by looking at mechanical positions of stuff is completely meaningless.
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 231
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I can see we are going to disagree. You are correct the MSD allows for timing adjustments. It does not trick anything. You have to adjust the screw to make a change. You can put a Mark on a non keyed hub and install a pointer. Then use a timing light. You can then adjust the screw to set your timing. Yes, thats right, its as simple as turning a screw.
How is checking mechanical positions useless? You need a place to start your work.
I am in no way in love with the MSD, and I surely hate delteq and LTCC. However, Given the MSD's abilities over a stock unit in the right hands, it is a better piece. As far as the first batch having a few with issues. You know, Its the first batch. I think I can forgive them.
How is checking mechanical positions useless? You need a place to start your work.
I am in no way in love with the MSD, and I surely hate delteq and LTCC. However, Given the MSD's abilities over a stock unit in the right hands, it is a better piece. As far as the first batch having a few with issues. You know, Its the first batch. I think I can forgive them.
The MSD achieves timing change by moving the optical pickup which in effect lies to the computer about where in rotation the engine is.
I have not made the mistake of buying the MSD opti but I have handled one, I think people mistake pretty for quality and ugly for a lack thereof. Only reason the stock opti gets a bad rap is because the average person lacks the intellectual tools to truly comprehend much of anything. They leave an original cap and rotor on for 100K and when it fails blame the design. Tell you what, that is in reality proof of what a good design it is.
You are just in denial and will blindly believe what you wasted $500 is good even though you are saying you have to practically rebuild it before installation. TYou will dismiss all problems one at a time rather than stepping back and looking at them as a collection of proof of anything.
I have not made the mistake of buying the MSD opti but I have handled one, I think people mistake pretty for quality and ugly for a lack thereof. Only reason the stock opti gets a bad rap is because the average person lacks the intellectual tools to truly comprehend much of anything. They leave an original cap and rotor on for 100K and when it fails blame the design. Tell you what, that is in reality proof of what a good design it is.
You are just in denial and will blindly believe what you wasted $500 is good even though you are saying you have to practically rebuild it before installation. TYou will dismiss all problems one at a time rather than stepping back and looking at them as a collection of proof of anything.
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 231
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So you are saying I am like a LS1 owner talking about my piston slap?
It is not a lie its a tool for tuning.
You are going to tell me you don't do a once over on the Parts you buy before you install them? For me to believe a product is bad I have to experience it. I do not know the competence of the individual that installed it.
If I am denial and blind. Then what are you? You say that you have never used an MSD, so you are fool enough to make a decision on hear say alone?
Again it is a Tool. If you know what you are doing it will aid you in your search for horse power. If you are just swapping out from a bad opti go OEM.
It is not a lie its a tool for tuning.
You are going to tell me you don't do a once over on the Parts you buy before you install them? For me to believe a product is bad I have to experience it. I do not know the competence of the individual that installed it.
If I am denial and blind. Then what are you? You say that you have never used an MSD, so you are fool enough to make a decision on hear say alone?
Again it is a Tool. If you know what you are doing it will aid you in your search for horse power. If you are just swapping out from a bad opti go OEM.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 313
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From: Eastern PA
Wow, every time the MSD Opti is mentioned, 96capricemgr loves to bash. Who cares that the other guy can build a 10 second car. Does he not make mistakes? He even mentioned that after they fixed it, he never installed it. But don't listen to me, I just have a stock LT1. 
Anyway, back on topic. The hex bolts are for mounting the opti. I had one of the older MSD units with the non square o-ring, and didn't have a problem keeping it from coming off, so the square o-ring should stay put. Just make sure it is on all the way before you mount the opti. I also didn't use loctite either on the screws but it probably wouldn't hurt anything. Like 96slow6 said, ALWAYS check the part before installing it, no matter what it is. If you need any other help while installing it, let me know.
Anyway, back on topic. The hex bolts are for mounting the opti. I had one of the older MSD units with the non square o-ring, and didn't have a problem keeping it from coming off, so the square o-ring should stay put. Just make sure it is on all the way before you mount the opti. I also didn't use loctite either on the screws but it probably wouldn't hurt anything. Like 96slow6 said, ALWAYS check the part before installing it, no matter what it is. If you need any other help while installing it, let me know.
I too have the MSD Opti along with the LTCC kit. I have the Deltec blank cap and no rotor. I have no issues with the MSD unit and I consider it a well made item. I have the advance locked at zero or where it would be "stock". I'll let the PCM decide how much advance there should be.
The MSD unit eliminates the plug in the unit on the passenger side. They employ a sealed tail to the next plug up on top. This is a good idea.
I won't claim any power or mileage improvements but it does run smoother. Others here have said the same. I have no more issues with wires buried under the drive bracket or burning on the headers. It also cleans up the front of the engine by eliminating the stock coil and ignition module.
By no means does either item, the MSD opti or the LTCC kit cause any loss of power. IMHO, it does make everything more reliable and it looks neat too. Of course, the down side is the initial cost of everything. I don't think I'll ever need to replace my opti ever again.
The MSD unit eliminates the plug in the unit on the passenger side. They employ a sealed tail to the next plug up on top. This is a good idea.
I won't claim any power or mileage improvements but it does run smoother. Others here have said the same. I have no more issues with wires buried under the drive bracket or burning on the headers. It also cleans up the front of the engine by eliminating the stock coil and ignition module.
By no means does either item, the MSD opti or the LTCC kit cause any loss of power. IMHO, it does make everything more reliable and it looks neat too. Of course, the down side is the initial cost of everything. I don't think I'll ever need to replace my opti ever again.
Last edited by Paul Bell; Apr 6, 2008 at 10:03 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 417
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From: Canada
well got the new opti in, new plugs, wire, new coil *thats todays chour of poping out the old stock rivits and mounting the new coil* then i can start putting the front end back together
question about the vent hose off the bottem of the opti cap with the T in the end of it, i cant get the end of the t to fit tight onto the vac hose i spliced it onto, any thing i should use to get it to seal better so i dont have a stupied leak when i get this thing running again?
question about the vent hose off the bottem of the opti cap with the T in the end of it, i cant get the end of the t to fit tight onto the vac hose i spliced it onto, any thing i should use to get it to seal better so i dont have a stupied leak when i get this thing running again?