My E85 swap, help needed
My E85 swap, help needed I have been researching E85 and biodiesel a lot lately. The more I read about it, the more I'm impressed by its potential. Also the $1 difference between it and premium fuel doesn't hurt. I've decided to swap my '89 LT1 over to E85. I've been mixing 89 gas and E85 for about a week now and as gas prices go up it's pushing me more to just go full E85
Last year I installed a walbro 255 pump, I think that should cover that end. It still has the stock 24# injectors on it, and I know I need to go bigger. I also know that I need to go into the PCM program and change it for more fuel.
This leads me to the following questions as I'm not knowledgeable in these areas yet:
1. What size injectors should I run?
(I'm thinking #36 should be enough to cover it, I'm going this big because I'll eventually install a crane 227 cam also)
2. What kind of injectors should I get?
(I'm looking at these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...spagenameZWDVW
Will they work ?)
3. I need help most in this area. What tables in Tunercat should I change?
(I have obd1 and tunercats and I've changed real basic things for the pcm, but need help knowing what to change for fuel trims, ect.)
The LT1 is stock for the most part, I've installed a shift kit in the auto, but I am going to put in a T56 this summer when I have time. The heads have been milled due to a blown head gasket about .018" so my compression is a little higher. It's got edelbrock shorty headers and a borla catback exhaust.
Last year I installed a walbro 255 pump, I think that should cover that end. It still has the stock 24# injectors on it, and I know I need to go bigger. I also know that I need to go into the PCM program and change it for more fuel.
This leads me to the following questions as I'm not knowledgeable in these areas yet:
1. What size injectors should I run?
(I'm thinking #36 should be enough to cover it, I'm going this big because I'll eventually install a crane 227 cam also)
2. What kind of injectors should I get?
(I'm looking at these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...spagenameZWDVW
Will they work ?)
3. I need help most in this area. What tables in Tunercat should I change?
(I have obd1 and tunercats and I've changed real basic things for the pcm, but need help knowing what to change for fuel trims, ect.)
The LT1 is stock for the most part, I've installed a shift kit in the auto, but I am going to put in a T56 this summer when I have time. The heads have been milled due to a blown head gasket about .018" so my compression is a little higher. It's got edelbrock shorty headers and a borla catback exhaust.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville,Tn
Just change the injector constant to a smaller number, it makes the computer think you have too small of an injector therefore it ups the fuel by increasing pulse width. Of course you wanna keep fooling with that number til you get yer fuel trims right. I never messed with the open loop settings just the injector constant.
I'd try it with the stock injectors first. Get yer fuel trims right then watch yer injector duty cycle, if it aint over about 80% at WOT then yer fine.
The walbro 255 is plenty, I'm running it with 7 lbs on a roots blower and 42 lb injectors and I ran E85 for awhile and it kept up nicely. It takes roughly 30-40% more fuel for E85. I have my IAT sensor in the intake manifold and the air temps would drop dramatically on E85 when I opened it up. I can run about 10-12* more timing with it too, man did that pep it up! Cheap racing gas is what I call it (105 octane).
I'd try it with the stock injectors first. Get yer fuel trims right then watch yer injector duty cycle, if it aint over about 80% at WOT then yer fine.
The walbro 255 is plenty, I'm running it with 7 lbs on a roots blower and 42 lb injectors and I ran E85 for awhile and it kept up nicely. It takes roughly 30-40% more fuel for E85. I have my IAT sensor in the intake manifold and the air temps would drop dramatically on E85 when I opened it up. I can run about 10-12* more timing with it too, man did that pep it up! Cheap racing gas is what I call it (105 octane).
Thank you, NXSLT1, someone has actually contributed useful technical information! When you say decrease the injector constant, the "injector flow rate" table in tunercats? Right now it's at 24.92 lbs/hr, which makes sense if they're 24# injectors. If I only change that constant, will the computer automatically change the pulse width?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville,Tn
Right, decrease that number by 1 or 2 numbers at a time til the fuel trims start hovering close to 128, or 0 if you have yer datalogging sofware on percent (I use datamaster). Of course you will need a wideband for WOT but tune it just like you would for gasoline, whatever AFR a NA motor needs, I think that's around 13:1, not sure, mines at 11.5:1 for FI.
You will notice that the exhaust note is alot quieter with E85, at least I did with mine, it sounded alot smoother. Also, at ethanol's ideal ratio it's suppose to make something like 5% more power than gasoline.
I would probably run it more often in this car but there are only 2 gas stations on the other side of town that sell it here and it's just inconvenient for me.
You will notice that the exhaust note is alot quieter with E85, at least I did with mine, it sounded alot smoother. Also, at ethanol's ideal ratio it's suppose to make something like 5% more power than gasoline.
I would probably run it more often in this car but there are only 2 gas stations on the other side of town that sell it here and it's just inconvenient for me.
You can pick up 42 lb injectors for cheap. Go to your local junkyard and find some Eagle talon or Eclipses. IF they are turbo, voila you have 42 lb injectors. I picked up 4 for $40 from my local junkyard.
Trending Topics
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette , Indiana
Right, decrease that number by 1 or 2 numbers at a time til the fuel trims start hovering close to 128, or 0 if you have yer datalogging sofware on percent (I use datamaster). Of course you will need a wideband for WOT but tune it just like you would for gasoline, whatever AFR a NA motor needs, I think that's around 13:1, not sure, mines at 11.5:1 for FI.
You will notice that the exhaust note is alot quieter with E85, at least I did with mine, it sounded alot smoother. Also, at ethanol's ideal ratio it's suppose to make something like 5% more power than gasoline.
I would probably run it more often in this car but there are only 2 gas stations on the other side of town that sell it here and it's just inconvenient for me.
You will notice that the exhaust note is alot quieter with E85, at least I did with mine, it sounded alot smoother. Also, at ethanol's ideal ratio it's suppose to make something like 5% more power than gasoline.
I would probably run it more often in this car but there are only 2 gas stations on the other side of town that sell it here and it's just inconvenient for me.
Chris
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Keep in mind that tuning isn't all that needs to be changed when going to E85... Ethanol works as a solvent, so it will break down any deposits inside of the fuel system over time. I would strongly recommend changing your fuel filter often.
It is also somewhat corrosive, and will eat at the fuel lines, injector O-rings, FPR diaphragm, and possibly the lining of the fuel tank itself...
Lastly, ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it draws in and retains moisture. This can lead to rust, especially in fuel systems that are designed to be open to the atmosphere.
It's a great idea, and I hope it works out well for you, but I think you're getting into a much bigger project than you were anticipating... Good luck.
It is also somewhat corrosive, and will eat at the fuel lines, injector O-rings, FPR diaphragm, and possibly the lining of the fuel tank itself...
Lastly, ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it draws in and retains moisture. This can lead to rust, especially in fuel systems that are designed to be open to the atmosphere.
It's a great idea, and I hope it works out well for you, but I think you're getting into a much bigger project than you were anticipating... Good luck.
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,564
Likes: 4
From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
He's right about needing to upgrade all the rubber lines to something that'll handle E85. GM might even sell rubber line for E85. Might as well get O-Rings while you're there.
Will those molded plastic fuel lines hold up to E85?
I believe it is a steel tank, but I thought they also had a liner in them... I could be wrong about that, so someone speak up if that's the case. As far as the fuel lines go, they aren't going to be eaten away within a week or anything, but there is a reason that the Flex Fuel Vehicles specify teflon lined lines. Over the course of a few years, they may be corroded...
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville,Tn
Ethanol is nowhere near as corrosive as people think. I've ran it quite awhile and saw no ill effects whatsoever. I've got a mason jar filled with ethanol and in that jar there is a piece of steel, aluminum, rubber gas hose, an o ring and a piece of surgical hose. Been in there for well over a year and the only thing that was ate up was the surgical hose and I bet ya regular gasoline would eat it up too. Methanol on the other hand is a different story, very corrosive. I ran 3 gallons of methanol thru my car and had to put a new fuel pump on it the next week.
Yes it might "ungum" everything so after a couple tanks it wouldn't be a bad idea to change the fuel filter. Yes alcohol will absorb moisture but if yer fuel system is sealed there are no worries there either.
As far as the AFR, the meter will read the same as for regular gasoline unless you calibrate the AFR meter for E85. Yes the stoich and WOT mixture is richer but yer O2 sensor doesn't know that, all it reads is O2 content. If you try to get the AFR reading to the stoich for E85 (which is 9.7:1) without calibrating the meter for E85 then yer car will most likely not even start, it will be pig rich, trust me I've been thru this already. If you do calibrate the meter for E85 then you will need to shoot for 9.7:1. WOT is anywhere from 6.9 to 8.5:1 IF the meter is calibrated for E85. If it isn't then again just tune like you would for gasoline. As far as going to a dyno to find peak power, that's yer choice but I don't race on a dyno, I race on a track so that's where I tune.
Yes it might "ungum" everything so after a couple tanks it wouldn't be a bad idea to change the fuel filter. Yes alcohol will absorb moisture but if yer fuel system is sealed there are no worries there either.
As far as the AFR, the meter will read the same as for regular gasoline unless you calibrate the AFR meter for E85. Yes the stoich and WOT mixture is richer but yer O2 sensor doesn't know that, all it reads is O2 content. If you try to get the AFR reading to the stoich for E85 (which is 9.7:1) without calibrating the meter for E85 then yer car will most likely not even start, it will be pig rich, trust me I've been thru this already. If you do calibrate the meter for E85 then you will need to shoot for 9.7:1. WOT is anywhere from 6.9 to 8.5:1 IF the meter is calibrated for E85. If it isn't then again just tune like you would for gasoline. As far as going to a dyno to find peak power, that's yer choice but I don't race on a dyno, I race on a track so that's where I tune.
