Why so slow?
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: I moved to over there
Stock tuning has these cars running rich at that rpm , that's why I leaned them out. I was seeing FALSE knock at that rpm also so that's why I took out the retard in the PCM. When I removed those things, I picked up 2 tenths. I also forgot to mention I have a Mallory 685 box.
I leave the knock sensors in with open headers, twin turbo's, roller rockers I have never had to tune around a false knock. I know it is tempting but it is also expensive if the engine does knock.
I don't use LT4 km either, my $.02 enable the knock sensors.
Good luck
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
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From: Michigan
OK, I don't feel so bad then. I do think I have a problem with the tranny though, on that 13.12 run, I had an 8.29 eigth mile ET which converts to a 12.94 quarter mile ET using this
http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/eight-to-quarter.htm
So I'm thinking maybe It quits pulling somewhere down track.
http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/eight-to-quarter.htm
So I'm thinking maybe It quits pulling somewhere down track.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: I moved to over there
How rich was your tune? How did you determine you are rich?
The formula I was given is
1/8 * 1.5832 = 1/4 is 13.12 for your track time
Which is dead on your number. Therefore, I do not see a problem from the time with your transmission. And if you want to know why there are differences in calculators here is a read
http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm
The formula I was given is
1/8 * 1.5832 = 1/4 is 13.12 for your track time
Which is dead on your number. Therefore, I do not see a problem from the time with your transmission. And if you want to know why there are differences in calculators here is a read
http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm
Last edited by BattleShip; May 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
How did you verify it is false knock? You often pick up power leaning a motor out, BUT lean motors seldom last long. I often believe it is false knock like an LT1 almost always knocka ~4000 rpm.
I leave the knock sensors in with open headers, twin turbo's, roller rockers I have never had to tune around a false knock. I know it is tempting but it is also expensive if the engine does knock.
I don't use LT4 km either, my $.02 enable the knock sensors.
Good luck
I leave the knock sensors in with open headers, twin turbo's, roller rockers I have never had to tune around a false knock. I know it is tempting but it is also expensive if the engine does knock.
I don't use LT4 km either, my $.02 enable the knock sensors.
Good luck
I verified that it was false, by running Torco Accelerator mixed at 104 octane, plus studying numerous Datamaster logs plus pulling the plugs and checking them. Hope that explained my reasoning for what I did
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: I moved to over there
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
http://www.widebandcommander.com/
Surprisingly enough, the logged AFR is really close to what the PCM is commanded from the tables.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
How rich was your tune? How did you determine you are rich?
The formula I was given is
1/8 * 1.5832 = 1/4 is 13.12 for your track time
Which is dead on your number. Therefore, I do not see a problem from the time with your transmission. And if you want to know why there are differences in calculators here is a read
http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm
The formula I was given is
1/8 * 1.5832 = 1/4 is 13.12 for your track time
Which is dead on your number. Therefore, I do not see a problem from the time with your transmission. And if you want to know why there are differences in calculators here is a read
http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 325
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From: I moved to over there
That's a fair enough question. I have an excel spreadsheet that I use to calculate the numbers I need to plug into the AFR tables to get the AFR I'd like to have, then I use this little gadget
http://www.widebandcommander.com/
Surprisingly enough, the logged AFR is really close to what the PCM is commanded from the tables.
http://www.widebandcommander.com/
Surprisingly enough, the logged AFR is really close to what the PCM is commanded from the tables.
What RPM are you trapping at? Since I read you don't shift into fourth, there is a technique I always wanted to try, but never had the need. With a 'good' torque convertor and transgo transmission kit you can lock the torque convertor in any gear (I don't have tuner cat here but I think 2, 3 and 4 might be just 3 and 4) at WOT.
I have NEVER tried it, BUT in your case it could give you say a 200 - 300 RPM 'upshift' to lunge your car at the end of 1/4 mile. I talked to a guy at a drag strip in Florida a couple years ago that used it and claimed it helped him and as I recall he claimed to do it in 2 and 3, but since it has been so long I can't be sure.
Might be worth looking into if your RPMs are above your sweet spot.
Good luck
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Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
I have had similiar experiences it is amazing how well this stock system works. I didn't want to explain to much because then your answer might have been biased. I do similiar, do you find your narrowband O2's are stable ie read consistent mv compared to your wideband?
What RPM are you trapping at? Since I read you don't shift into fourth, there is a technique I always wanted to try, but never had the need. With a 'good' torque convertor and transgo transmission kit you can lock the torque convertor in any gear (I don't have tuner cat here but I think 2, 3 and 4 might be just 3 and 4) at WOT.
I have NEVER tried it, BUT in your case it could give you say a 200 - 300 RPM 'upshift' to lunge your car at the end of 1/4 mile. I talked to a guy at a drag strip in Florida a couple years ago that used it and claimed it helped him and as I recall he claimed to do it in 2 and 3, but since it has been so long I can't be sure.
Might be worth looking into if your RPMs are above your sweet spot.
Good luck
What RPM are you trapping at? Since I read you don't shift into fourth, there is a technique I always wanted to try, but never had the need. With a 'good' torque convertor and transgo transmission kit you can lock the torque convertor in any gear (I don't have tuner cat here but I think 2, 3 and 4 might be just 3 and 4) at WOT.
I have NEVER tried it, BUT in your case it could give you say a 200 - 300 RPM 'upshift' to lunge your car at the end of 1/4 mile. I talked to a guy at a drag strip in Florida a couple years ago that used it and claimed it helped him and as I recall he claimed to do it in 2 and 3, but since it has been so long I can't be sure.
Might be worth looking into if your RPMs are above your sweet spot.
Good luck
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
I lost a lot of logs when my hard drive crashed last winter. I went back to look and can't find them. I did log about 30 minutes of highway driving with Datamaster and my wide band though last saturday. Part throttle driving logs show my narrow band sensors toggling red/green/red/green and between 125 and 135 on the short terms and the O2's running between 250- and 850 both sides. The wideband toggles back and forth between 14.5 and 15.0 just not as fast as the oem sensors do. I will say though that running WOT, as I understand how the GM PCM works, the PCM goes into a "sort of" open loop mode where it used the PE tables to determine fueling and not the O2 sensors. I will say, that I do remember some of my WOT logs with Datamaster showed the O2's showed somewhere around 800-900 mv at wide open throttle. Keep in mind that these o2 sensors have about 60K miles on them. But to answer your question, it looks like they may be following each other. The narrow bands swing between their full range and the wideband is toggling in a narrow range of AFR that would seem to match that of the narrow bands.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
I have had similiar experiences it is amazing how well this stock system works. I didn't want to explain to much because then your answer might have been biased. I do similiar, do you find your narrowband O2's are stable ie read consistent mv compared to your wideband?
What RPM are you trapping at? Since I read you don't shift into fourth, there is a technique I always wanted to try, but never had the need. With a 'good' torque convertor and transgo transmission kit you can lock the torque convertor in any gear (I don't have tuner cat here but I think 2, 3 and 4 might be just 3 and 4) at WOT.
I have NEVER tried it, BUT in your case it could give you say a 200 - 300 RPM 'upshift' to lunge your car at the end of 1/4 mile. I talked to a guy at a drag strip in Florida a couple years ago that used it and claimed it helped him and as I recall he claimed to do it in 2 and 3, but since it has been so long I can't be sure.
Might be worth looking into if your RPMs are above your sweet spot.
Good luck
What RPM are you trapping at? Since I read you don't shift into fourth, there is a technique I always wanted to try, but never had the need. With a 'good' torque convertor and transgo transmission kit you can lock the torque convertor in any gear (I don't have tuner cat here but I think 2, 3 and 4 might be just 3 and 4) at WOT.
I have NEVER tried it, BUT in your case it could give you say a 200 - 300 RPM 'upshift' to lunge your car at the end of 1/4 mile. I talked to a guy at a drag strip in Florida a couple years ago that used it and claimed it helped him and as I recall he claimed to do it in 2 and 3, but since it has been so long I can't be sure.
Might be worth looking into if your RPMs are above your sweet spot.
Good luck
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: I moved to over there
The wideband toggles back and forth between 14.5 and 15.0 just not as fast as the oem sensors do.
I will say though that running WOT, as I understand how the GM PCM works, the PCM goes into a "sort of" open loop mode where it used the PE tables to determine fueling and not the O2 sensors.
I will say, that I do remember some of my WOT logs with Datamaster showed the O2's showed somewhere around 800-900 mv at wide open throttle.
Keep in mind that these o2 sensors have about 60K miles on them. But to answer your question, it looks like they may be following each other.
The narrow bands swing between their full range and the wideband is toggling in a narrow range of AFR that would seem to match that of the narrow bands.
Good luck with your setup, I already see why most no longer post here it is simply too much trouble.
