Buy or Build 383?
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Teching In
Joined: Mar 2005
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Buy or Build 383? The patiant is a 96 Corvette.
I wanted to see what everyone thinks. I know both sides had success but Im looking for a price comparison and reliablity.
I have the money and I wanted to build a second motor and keep the stock lt1. All I know is I want a 383 with 195 AFR heads and a cam that will help me get to 500chp area. My choices are custom cam or 847 I guess. If someone knows of a cam that I can research that will give me decent low end and great mid range power that would be great. I dont want to start anything but I heard cc306 is more for top end. I dont want it to choke to death a stop. Decent but smoother cam lope. Ill be adding all supporting mods of course. Good street manners but still wicked, its not a daily driver.
Knowing this is it better to buy from a company or have a local place do the block preps and assemble it. I see a number of shops offering 383 Comp. shortblocks for $4000. Thats forged and ready to rock. If I build one just like it will I go over that budget do you think?
Keep it Clean.......GO type away
I wanted to see what everyone thinks. I know both sides had success but Im looking for a price comparison and reliablity.
I have the money and I wanted to build a second motor and keep the stock lt1. All I know is I want a 383 with 195 AFR heads and a cam that will help me get to 500chp area. My choices are custom cam or 847 I guess. If someone knows of a cam that I can research that will give me decent low end and great mid range power that would be great. I dont want to start anything but I heard cc306 is more for top end. I dont want it to choke to death a stop. Decent but smoother cam lope. Ill be adding all supporting mods of course. Good street manners but still wicked, its not a daily driver.
Knowing this is it better to buy from a company or have a local place do the block preps and assemble it. I see a number of shops offering 383 Comp. shortblocks for $4000. Thats forged and ready to rock. If I build one just like it will I go over that budget do you think?
Keep it Clean.......GO type away
Check out these guys for topend
Notasponsor ahh sorry forgot! Okay there is a company called Advanced Induction, google it.
There are many others, Lloyd Elliot, Portpros etc. As far as the bottom end I was able to piece mine together and save some money that way, HOWEVER it took a LONG time. Too long for most.
I'd say you could assemble a shortblock for around $3000. If you have a reputable machine shop, ie they've done SBCs before and are good at it, they should have no problem doing the honing, boring and basic assembly. Just make sure that if they do the timing chain etc, that they've done gen II Lt1s before, because they are different than a reg. SBC. That being said getting the timing chain and accompanying parts for that also proved to be a long ordeal for me to save some $$. If you're looking to get the shortblock faster than sooner, buy it. Try looking for Karl Ellwein on google. notasponsor sells them, some dude builds and sells them aswell.
Notasponsor ahh sorry forgot! Okay there is a company called Advanced Induction, google it.
There are many others, Lloyd Elliot, Portpros etc. As far as the bottom end I was able to piece mine together and save some money that way, HOWEVER it took a LONG time. Too long for most.
I'd say you could assemble a shortblock for around $3000. If you have a reputable machine shop, ie they've done SBCs before and are good at it, they should have no problem doing the honing, boring and basic assembly. Just make sure that if they do the timing chain etc, that they've done gen II Lt1s before, because they are different than a reg. SBC. That being said getting the timing chain and accompanying parts for that also proved to be a long ordeal for me to save some $$. If you're looking to get the shortblock faster than sooner, buy it. Try looking for Karl Ellwein on google. notasponsor sells them, some dude builds and sells them aswell.
Last edited by Superbeasst; Jun 10, 2008 at 03:10 AM.
I would trust a local shop to do the shortblock before I would make that choice in heads. Shortblock wise they are not much different from a gen 1. Heads is where power is.
Far as shortblock you are probably looking at Golen and I would suggest you keep looking.
Basically what I see is that you are making matrketing based choices not reality based and the results will suffer because of it.
Far as shortblock you are probably looking at Golen and I would suggest you keep looking.
Basically what I see is that you are making matrketing based choices not reality based and the results will suffer because of it.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2005
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I really like what I saw with the AI guys I might call them and talk to them too. Thats the kind of imputs I wanted. So are the commerical heads today over rated and port work is the way to go? From what it looks like you can save almost $500 by getting someone to port your heads over the cost of buying commerical.
Well they're not over rated, but porting IS the way to go, I mean take my setup for example, I have stock TFS (Trick Flow Specialties), and my power isn't anything to write home about all things considered. But the guys getting the same heads from AI ported are making WAAAY more power. Other things obviously contribute, cam, springs, valves etc. But I've probably got another 20hp or so do unlock with a few small things, electric water pump, intake etc. Plus I passed CA smog with my setup, which was important at the time.
The old AFR stuff was decades old designs bought from Brownfeild. The stock LT1 head was a BIG step up from even a lot of the aftermarket gen 1 stuff of the time. AFR admitted their stuff was old and outdated when they decided to redesign it all with the Eliminator line but those are untested.
Fact of the matter is on a good race setup the GM heads with good porting are capable of taking an over 3400lbs car into the 9s with a pump gas capable motor and porting of the stock manifold not replacing.
Most of the guys who will tell you to buy something else are either too quick to believe in bench racing or are defending their mistake of spending thousands more for LESS result.
Not a pretty fact but is the case.
Even those who swear you need aftermarket heads will agree with me that there are NONE worth running without porting, meaning you can either port stockers or spend $1000+ on aftermarket castings and then port them too and in all likelyhood not go any faster.
Fact of the matter is on a good race setup the GM heads with good porting are capable of taking an over 3400lbs car into the 9s with a pump gas capable motor and porting of the stock manifold not replacing.
Most of the guys who will tell you to buy something else are either too quick to believe in bench racing or are defending their mistake of spending thousands more for LESS result.
Not a pretty fact but is the case.
Even those who swear you need aftermarket heads will agree with me that there are NONE worth running without porting, meaning you can either port stockers or spend $1000+ on aftermarket castings and then port them too and in all likelyhood not go any faster.
As already suggested go with a local shop to do your shortblock. It is much easier to establish and maintain a relationship with your builder if you can do it personally rather than on the internet. That way if you have any questions you can deal with the builder face to face instead of some clown over the phone possibly hundreds/thousands of miles away who hasn't the foggiest idea nor does he care about you or your engine.
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I will echo what has been said that "any" head will perform better with port work and with that said GM AL heads done well will be as good and most likely better than a "aftermarket" ported head. You should be $ ahead going with GM AL heads vs DART, AFR, etc.
Regarding shortblocks, if you have a local shop who knows the LT1 motors inside/out go with them unless their costs warrent more shopping.
I have a Golen short block and have no issues with it. karl has Golen do his machine work.
The heads/cam is where the power is so consult with people who do that for a living (LE, AI are well regarded)
Regarding shortblocks, if you have a local shop who knows the LT1 motors inside/out go with them unless their costs warrent more shopping.
I have a Golen short block and have no issues with it. karl has Golen do his machine work.
The heads/cam is where the power is so consult with people who do that for a living (LE, AI are well regarded)
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From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
I'll +2 all the info given and go with what ****** said about the LT1 rebuilding and finding a builder who knows about them.
You can also buy the parts for the motor and then have all the prep work done, then assemble yourself and save some cash, or some places will let you bring in all your own parts and do everything and assemble. If you have a few more bucks to spare, get a good balance job thrown in there.
You can also buy the parts for the motor and then have all the prep work done, then assemble yourself and save some cash, or some places will let you bring in all your own parts and do everything and assemble. If you have a few more bucks to spare, get a good balance job thrown in there.
+1 on the balance job! The motor btw can be balanced externally (big weight on the flywheel/flexplate) or internally (no weight on the flexplate) but slugs in the crankshaft bob weights. Make sure you have the assembly balanced WITH whichever flywheel/flexplate you are going to use on the car.
Check out these guys for topend
Notasponsor
There are many others, Lloyd Elliot, Portpros etc. As far as the bottom end I was able to piece mine together and save some money that way, HOWEVER it took a LONG time. Too long for most.
I'd say you could assemble a shortblock for around $3000. If you have a reputable machine shop, ie they've done SBCs before and are good at it, they should have no problem doing the honing, boring and basic assembly. Just make sure that if they do the timing chain etc, that they've done gen II Lt1s before, because they are different than a reg. SBC. That being said getting the timing chain and accompanying parts for that also proved to be a long ordeal for me to save some $$. If you're looking to get the shortblock faster than sooner, buy it. notasponsor sells them, some dude builds and sells them aswell.
Notasponsor
There are many others, Lloyd Elliot, Portpros etc. As far as the bottom end I was able to piece mine together and save some money that way, HOWEVER it took a LONG time. Too long for most.
I'd say you could assemble a shortblock for around $3000. If you have a reputable machine shop, ie they've done SBCs before and are good at it, they should have no problem doing the honing, boring and basic assembly. Just make sure that if they do the timing chain etc, that they've done gen II Lt1s before, because they are different than a reg. SBC. That being said getting the timing chain and accompanying parts for that also proved to be a long ordeal for me to save some $$. If you're looking to get the shortblock faster than sooner, buy it. notasponsor sells them, some dude builds and sells them aswell.
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2008
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From: CharlesTown WV
I had mine assembled on a budget by a local guy that was known to do good work with classic GM's and he did a damned good job on my LT1. He did my head porting aswell, I might have gotten more power going elsewhere, but for the price I paid and how well the car runs I can't complain at all. Total price for the machine work, assembly, porting work on heads and port matching of intake cost me 2500. To get it alll done at this price I had to leave the car with him for quite sometime though so it could be done afterhours when he could. My patience paid off though now that I have a relatively inexpensive engine that runs extremely well and now know someone in the industry that I can count on if I ever need help. Putting together a car is more than just buying the parts, it's about building the relationships that make this the wonderful hobby that it is.
i'll keep my AFR's, didn't pay that much for them
as has been stated there are plenty of great head porters around (just read some sigs)
golen builds a solid LTx
but an LTx isn't a far cry from a traditional SBC
find a local guy with a good solid rep, contact the head porter of choice and talk compression/cam/TRUE intent of the car and buy parts accordingly
do your homework, the good shops have earned their followings
as has been stated there are plenty of great head porters around (just read some sigs)
golen builds a solid LTx
but an LTx isn't a far cry from a traditional SBC
find a local guy with a good solid rep, contact the head porter of choice and talk compression/cam/TRUE intent of the car and buy parts accordingly
do your homework, the good shops have earned their followings
I run a Lingenfelter built 383...Its on its 13th year and the shortblock has never been apart! If I were to do it again id go with their longblock minus the cam and have a custom cam ground for it...Which is what I wound up doing anyway back in 2005...I dont know what one of their short blocks and heads would cost, but after 13 years and 51,000 hard track and street miles id say its plenty durable...They use a Callies crank, Oliver billet steel 5.85" rods and JE pistons...I think its one of the best most durable combos out there...The LPE heads are also a good choice even though they are a bit pricey, but again they use manley severe duty 2.00/1.56 valves, titanium retainers and a great dual valve spring...Aside from having E.B. Porting re-port my heads in 2005 to find a wee bit more air, the heads still retain the original valves, springs and retainers from 1995!
--Alan
--Alan
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
I like assembling my own stuff, for the fun of it, I just enjoy doing it, But as said the LT1 IS so close to a traditional SBC that any semi competent Dirt track oriented machine shop that does SBCs every day will do a good job on the machining. There is no rocket science involved.
The heads have many choices , go with what your budget allows , just budget a good 1500 $ plus to do them right.
AI, LE,AFR, Dart, TFS whatever, all work. I always think its funny when people talk about something they have never tried.
My previous motor had the old style AFR 190s , with a 9 and a half to one compression 383 shortblock (with the voodoo bad karma hyper pistons from KB) in a full weight 97 T/A with leather (lol) and a spare tire (lowly GM847 off the shelf used cam) it ran 11.48 in the Oklahoma heat (it gets hot here in July) @ 121 mph.
I know I know I havent set any world records and I suck by most peoples standards, but I've yet to remove the smile from my face driving the thing around town, AND I strike fear in the hearts of all the local LS1s and pullied Cobras.
The heads have many choices , go with what your budget allows , just budget a good 1500 $ plus to do them right.
AI, LE,AFR, Dart, TFS whatever, all work. I always think its funny when people talk about something they have never tried.
My previous motor had the old style AFR 190s , with a 9 and a half to one compression 383 shortblock (with the voodoo bad karma hyper pistons from KB) in a full weight 97 T/A with leather (lol) and a spare tire (lowly GM847 off the shelf used cam) it ran 11.48 in the Oklahoma heat (it gets hot here in July) @ 121 mph.
I know I know I havent set any world records and I suck by most peoples standards, but I've yet to remove the smile from my face driving the thing around town, AND I strike fear in the hearts of all the local LS1s and pullied Cobras.
Last edited by WS Sick; Jun 11, 2008 at 10:19 AM.
