View Poll Results: which heads? converted GM 18* heads? or AI's TFS 215cc LT1 heads?
converted to LT1 style GM 18* heads.
10
30.30%
AI's TFS 215cc LT1 heads.
23
69.70%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll
slightly touched up converted to LT1 style GM 18* heads or AI's 215cc TFS heads?
09-29-2008, 12:29 PM
#21
Staging Lane
Join Date: May 2007
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09-30-2008, 01:36 PM
#24
Really? how? For the money spent on a set of All Pro's you can have a set of 15* heads...so why not? The All Pro's have a spread port exhaust right? So ya gotta have headers built anyway.
As far as the Brodix, I havent heard anything ground breaking about the 18X they cost more than a 23* setup and dont flow much better. Everything I have read or seen is that they aint that good.
My heads flow 320@.650(I think, may be at .700) For the money I spent I got a decent set heads. Car makes good power and is very streetable....if it weighed 3400lbs with me in it, it would 10.70's all motor.....so I am pretty happy with it and I can hop in it and drive 60 miles one way to a cruise in on pumpgas and run 11.0's just like it gets driven around .....no changes.
But like I said, if I had to do it over again I would have bought a used set of SB2.2 from Muscle Motorsports and went that way.
But now I am looking into a 408 LSx platform.
09-30-2008, 02:55 PM
#26
Not knocking your setup buddy.. just make sure your statement is factual.. rather than blatantly ignorant... 
Avg 23 vs avg 18* i'd tend to agree.. but there are some pretty stout 23* stuff that will give that 18* stuff a run for the money... SB2.2 stuff is nice... best to start w/ a virgin set and have them done to your combo...
Avg 23 vs avg 18* i'd tend to agree.. but there are some pretty stout 23* stuff that will give that 18* stuff a run for the money... SB2.2 stuff is nice... best to start w/ a virgin set and have them done to your combo...Really? how? For the money spent on a set of All Pro's you can have a set of 15* heads...so why not? The All Pro's have a spread port exhaust right? So ya gotta have headers built anyway.
As far as the Brodix, I havent heard anything ground breaking about the 18X they cost more than a 23* setup and dont flow much better. Everything I have read or seen is that they aint that good.
My heads flow 320@.650(I think, may be at .700) For the money I spent I got a decent set heads. Car makes good power and is very streetable....if it weighed 3400lbs with me in it, it would 10.70's all motor.....so I am pretty happy with it and I can hop in it and drive 60 miles one way to a cruise in on pumpgas and run 11.0's just like it gets driven around .....no changes.
But like I said, if I had to do it over again I would have bought a used set of SB2.2 from Muscle Motorsports and went that way.
But now I am looking into a 408 LSx platform.
As far as the Brodix, I havent heard anything ground breaking about the 18X they cost more than a 23* setup and dont flow much better. Everything I have read or seen is that they aint that good.
My heads flow 320@.650(I think, may be at .700) For the money I spent I got a decent set heads. Car makes good power and is very streetable....if it weighed 3400lbs with me in it, it would 10.70's all motor.....so I am pretty happy with it and I can hop in it and drive 60 miles one way to a cruise in on pumpgas and run 11.0's just like it gets driven around .....no changes.
But like I said, if I had to do it over again I would have bought a used set of SB2.2 from Muscle Motorsports and went that way.
But now I am looking into a 408 LSx platform.
09-30-2008, 03:06 PM
#27
One question to the OP... Why are you planning on running an LT4 intake manifold with a set of 18 degree heads? You will have to go through the trouble and cost of having it converted to fit. Why not go with a single plain intake and have it converted? You should be able to pick up a donor manifold for far cheaper than a LT4 Edelbrock intake. Not even mentioning the money you will the single plain will certainly have the potential to make more power than the LT4. Just put a elbow and a nice 90mm throttle body on top and youll be set.
09-30-2008, 06:56 PM
#28
You saying my statement is NOT factual?? Really........wow so lets break it down....
How much did your 23* All Pros cost when done? 4 grand?
I got 1/2 that in mine, and you got what? 25 more cfm? Granted thats ALOT in cfm terms but 2 g's more?
Like I said, with the cost of the All Pro, Chapman, and the like are WAY over what a used set of SB2.2's cost....and flow less.
You are building and engine for the heads ANYWAY, so buy the pistons, rockers etc for the heads....no brainer here.
How much did your 23* All Pros cost when done? 4 grand?
I got 1/2 that in mine, and you got what? 25 more cfm? Granted thats ALOT in cfm terms but 2 g's more?
Like I said, with the cost of the All Pro, Chapman, and the like are WAY over what a used set of SB2.2's cost....and flow less.
You are building and engine for the heads ANYWAY, so buy the pistons, rockers etc for the heads....no brainer here.
10-01-2008, 05:31 AM
#29
One question to the OP... Why are you planning on running an LT4 intake manifold with a set of 18 degree heads? You will have to go through the trouble and cost of having it converted to fit. Why not go with a single plain intake and have it converted? You should be able to pick up a donor manifold for far cheaper than a LT4 Edelbrock intake. Not even mentioning the money you will the single plain will certainly have the potential to make more power than the LT4. Just put a elbow and a nice 90mm throttle body on top and youll be set.
also other reason for using the edelbrock LT4 intake manifold is that the hood clearance will be an issue with the single plain intake manifold where i will not have this problem with the edelbrock LT4 intake manifold. in the end actualy i want to keep the stock look of the hood.
if there is a fabricated intake manifold similar to the LT4 one that will give more power i would look into that.
10-16-2008, 08:25 AM
#30
On The Tree
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You saying my statement is NOT factual?? Really........wow so lets break it down....
How much did your 23* All Pros cost when done? 4 grand?
I got 1/2 that in mine, and you got what? 25 more cfm? Granted thats ALOT in cfm terms but 2 g's more?
Like I said, with the cost of the All Pro, Chapman, and the like are WAY over what a used set of SB2.2's cost....and flow less.
You are building and engine for the heads ANYWAY, so buy the pistons, rockers etc for the heads....no brainer here.
How much did your 23* All Pros cost when done? 4 grand?
I got 1/2 that in mine, and you got what? 25 more cfm? Granted thats ALOT in cfm terms but 2 g's more?
Like I said, with the cost of the All Pro, Chapman, and the like are WAY over what a used set of SB2.2's cost....and flow less.
You are building and engine for the heads ANYWAY, so buy the pistons, rockers etc for the heads....no brainer here.
I think what steve is trying to point out is that really nasty 23 degree heads do exist. The RHS castings IS one of those heads. It is just a matter of WORK to get the heads to perform on that level. 2hp/CI is very possible with that casting on a 400" engine. It just comes down to the work involved to make it happen.
If you do not have a valve angle rule and need to buy everything else to start with there is NO REASON not to start with a 15 degree casting. If you want to produce 2+hp/ci the 23 degree casting will end up costing you more in the end... I absolutely agree with your statement and try to educate my customers with this information daily (I think you and I might have had this discussion before
)On the other hand if I received a call from someone who was in your position currently and was looking for 520RWHP the last resort would be a shallow head. The cost to fix the 23 degree head would be FAR less than new castings, pistons, valvetrain, intake, headers.
You must put everything into perspective. Not sure if that makes sense.
For instance, the SB2 head would not make a good fit for a 600RWHP application due to the cost. You can find throw away heads on ebay and other places (you didn't think the cup teams sold their good heads did you) but until you factor in portwork and valve train you find the readily availible 15 degree stuff is cheaper. Now if we were shooting for 750rwhp...different story.
Make sense? Atleast this is my way of looking at it...but I am a cheap bastard! I HATE to waste money.... probably because I don't have any of it!
Dennis
10-16-2008, 09:06 AM
#32
.. But whatever the case is.. Go where your budget takes you.. Just don't make blanket statement's.. There are ton's of options out there for everyone.. Getting the guy that's gonna send ya in the right direction is the ticket... But yea.. 2K for the castings alone.. They're not cheap by any means...
10-16-2008, 10:34 AM
#33
01-09-2009, 01:21 PM
#36
i did some research on the GM 18* heads and i found that it will take a lot of money to convert the GM 18* heads to LT1 style and install them on LT1 engine and do all the conversions needed and do all the custom parts needed for it beside i might loose low end torque needed for the street due to the big runner size of the GM 18* heads.
since trick flow will release the TFS 21* LT1 heads this month or next month i will go with a set of them reworked by AI with AI ported LT1 intake manifold and a matched AI custom cam.
since trick flow will release the TFS 21* LT1 heads this month or next month i will go with a set of them reworked by AI with AI ported LT1 intake manifold and a matched AI custom cam.
Last edited by Abdullah; 01-09-2009 at 01:37 PM.
01-09-2009, 06:30 PM
#37
i did some research on the GM 18* heads and i found that it will take a lot of money to convert the GM 18* heads to LT1 style and install them on LT1 engine and do all the conversions needed and do all the custom parts needed for it beside i might loose low end torque needed for the street due to the big runner size of the GM 18* heads.
Probably a better chocie for you.
01-09-2009, 10:31 PM
#38
I too am waiting on the 21* TFS's from AI, and will most likely send my intake to them as well for them to match it.
01-09-2009, 11:54 PM
#39
A lot of money? Define a lot. My friend can "convert" a set of sbc heads in a day. They aren't as different as you think. Brodix makes an 18 degree head that supports 23 degree valvetrain components and has stock exhaust location. It is offered in spread port or standard port. Keep your headers and go with the standard port. The 18 degree manifold will obviously bolt right up, but it will need to be fabbed for EFI bungs, need the distributor hole, plugged, and possibly the water neck trimmed off with the ends plugged. Then a custom elbow will need to be made or purchased. The head flows around 320cfm out of the box, unported. It has the potential to go higher.
Probably a better chocie for you.
Probably a better chocie for you.
The Conversion to the head itself is 400-500 dollars.
Dont let the big runner scare you, you have to factor runner LENGTH, that also adds cc to the runner. I have a big runner on a 383 LT1 it makes 430 ftlbs of tq at 3000 at the rear wheels through a 9 inch and a 4l60E. Just got to be cammed correctly.
If I had to do it over again I would have went a different route. But I already had big money tied up in headers(its a long story) for a standard port 23* head.
But the old pig dont run too bad for a steetcar on pumpgas.
I see alot of power potential in the 21* head from Trick FLow. I want to see Dennis, Ai or Larry Meaux get a hold of a set and see what they REALLY are.
