KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Oh yeah, pilot bearing is new now Tranny is in the shop getting rebuilt. 5th gear was toast according to the shop, and next day air on all the parts is pushing my grand total there to about $1300. Yikes/ouch. It has to be done though (or that's what I am telling myself). F%#K! The price of the clutch and rebuild could have been a F#^king 9" rear.

Yeah, the space around the alignment tool compared to the PP isnt equal distant. Can you loosen the PP with the belhousing still attached? That would be nice...

slowandrichws6

iTrader: (2)

dont quote me on this cause i have never tried it but i doubt you can... sorry to hear about the luck

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

Actually,yes you can do it this way.I rebuild 2-3 of these a week and know you can remove the input shaft from the front very easilly -if needed.Learned it years ago when I had to replace a few input shafts on my personal tranny.
The correct rebuild is from the back and work your way forward.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Well, at the end of the day its a car with 133k miles. Par for the course I gess (the clutch still had life on it with 133k miles!!!). Now, when the engine lets loose I am going to have to find vehicle #2... Lets hope that regular oil changes, new oil pump, valve springs, timing chain, and comp pushrods help to get me to at least 160k.

ZTwentyAteU

iTrader: (12)

If its not bad, you can polish the input shaft, i've had to do it before, those stock pilots can really screw up one. I always go with a pilot BUSHING when replacing it. To me it looks like you may be able to polish it and run a bushing

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Can someone post up a pic of a bushing that they have used? Where did you get it? Mine was ground down enough that if I had something that would ride on the damaged surface then I would probably needed to machine down the front of the shaft just so it could be installed.

BALLSS

very common part at auto part store. most clutch kits come with both bearing and bushing

agree with post stating "polish" shaft and install bushing and go

stevied916

iTrader: (30)

for the bushing go to any auto parts store and ask for the bushing for a 68 camaro with 4 speed muncie

Don@D&D performance

Kurt:

Recommend replacing the input shaft. We sell and stock them. Buy the factory pilot bearing from your dealer, it's the best part available. The input shaft can be replaced from the front of the trans. by removing the front adapter even though the shop manual says it can't be done that way. Call us at 248-735-6220 for parts or advice.

Don @ D&D Performance

Dip Stick

iTrader: (1)

Yea I found out the hardway, that you can remove that front adapter plate, which when I rebuilt mine, was the base, and you can replace that seal, replace the input shaft/4th gear, and also replace the gasket/seal if you get a leak from there.

Kinda handy

Just be sure to either re-use the bearing on the input shaft or get a new one when you order the input shaft.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Dammit, I've already got this thing being rebuilt for me. After reading the service manual I thought to myself that I could do it, but time is my enemy since I am moving next week. If I had known that it was that easy, or that I could have just gotten a bushing, then this probably turned out a little different. Oh well, at least I'll have a freshly rebuilt tranny out of the deal

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Oh btw, I was able to re-align the clutch without removing the bell housing. Universals are your friend It still isnt 100% equal distant from the alignment tool. The tool slides in and out PERFECTLY though, so maybe I wont get caught with the final 2 inches. We'll see. Thanks for all the quick responses.

BALLSS

...by confirming clutch disc edge & PP edge are = align around...I mean the outer edge of disc & PP.....

If one side of the clutch disc is hanging over or inside the PP edge more than the opposite side...you would need to adjust clutch alignment.

not the best Pic but it shows the edge of PP & disc being even

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

With the mileage you were better off having it fully rebuilt.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

$1280 was the final bill. New 5th and 6th gears, and 5th and 6th syncros, bearings, small parts, and input shaft. $400 of that was labor. I dunno if I can call it a FULL rebuild, but he said that everything else looked good. Looking around his shop I saw a nascar 428 ford, a SBC on a stand with a 671 blower, a rail car, a 69 camaro with a near 500ci BB... and a square port head 427... He had a huge knowledge of the 4l60 and 4l60e. I'm pretty sure he was the DUDE to work on this thing. He said this makes the 6th one that he's done.

Now... I can't get the trans to go that last 1/2". I'm pretty sure its the dowel rods on the trans going into the bell housing that are holding me back. Any tips on getting that bitch to line up right? I can get the closest bolt (to the dowel) on the drivers side to start, but then the passenger side is like 1/4 off... and wont budge. I am guessing that everyone has gotten it to go in without trying to get a bolt here and there started. This thing is making me

I got out a hole saw that was just under 3" and made an access hole in the floor to the bleeder screw on the slave. I didnt bother trying to peel back the insulation and plastic... I just cut thru it I did at least peel the carpet back, lol. If only I could get the freakin trans to go on then I could get the dang car back on the road.

Dip Stick

iTrader: (1)

I went to the store and initially bought some bolts about an inch longer.. used those to get it lined up and started right. The second time I put it back on, ended up not needing them.

What is missing, is that final click, of the shaft popping into the bearing. What we did, was had one guy up front, wiggling side to side. and up and down if possible.. be sure to loosen up the tranny straps or whatever... We also adjusted and loosened up the front banana nuts so we could jiggle that tranny like mad.

Then the guy in the back just pushes the best he can with his legs or whatever.. and occasionally gives it some sideways movement to.

it took all that chaos twice to get it in. little frustrating.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

I have an idea: Get some non-threaded rod about 4" long, then thread about 1/3 of it the same pitch of the bell housing. Then, put the other end on a grinder and grind it down to a point, kinda like the motor mount bolt that everyone hates. Do about 4 of them, and get them threaded into the bottom 4 or 5 holes. There should be room behind the tranny to back it up a little... or enough to line it up right with those pointy rods. Now I have at my disposal a transmission jack adapter from harbor freight, but we didnt use it because the car would need to be super high to remove the tranny. But since mine is resting ontop of the jack, more or less already in position, I think the tranny jack adapter would fit under the car to support it. The sweetest part of that thing isnt so much how much area it supports, but rather the angle adjustment rod. I think I should be able to get it to line up perfect if 60% of the holes are lined up. The tranny dowel rods shouldnt be a problem. Then I can just remove the rods while the trans is in place.

I don't really think it has much to do with the input shaft trying to fit inside the pilot bearing, or I know it in my case. I can see that the dowel rods arent lining up on both sides, and its a major PITA to get them both lined up. Maybe a little emery cloth on the dowels would loosen things up

BALLSS

What you are describeing is "classic" clutch disc missalignment OR you do not have the engine and tranny at the same angle top/bottom & L&R.

DO NOT pull the tranny in with bolts.

Don't beat yourself up, many of us have been there on clutch swaps. "IF" your clutch disc is aligned correctly (which means you may have to pull tranny, bell housing and losen PP bolts and re-align it again CONFIRMING it is right) than confirm the angle of engine and tranny is ==, Meaning is there a bigger gap top or bottom?...there can't be.

What is happening is the input shaft is hanging up on your NEW pilot bearing/bushing (whatever you went with). I use a floor jack under motor (protect with thick towel) and the Harbor Freight tranny jack and jack/lower the engine until the alignment (=space all around tranny & bell houseing is right) and then push the tranny in. Yes you may have to also wiggle tranny side/side and up/down to get it in.

Again DO NOT force tranny in last 1/2" by pulling in with bolts. Also while the tranny is still 1/2" out slide the clutch fork on the T.O. bearing.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Yeah, I wasnt talking about pulling the trans back onto the bell housing with bolts, simply having them sticking out of the bell housing to line things up. Once everything is mated up 100% then the threaded rods come out and the bolts go back in.

If the alignment tool slides in and out with no resistance, then the clutch should be lined up, right?

TA-Swede

iTrader: (4)

Only if you have a very good alignment tool.
Unfortunately, the plastic ones are not very good.

If you can wiggle your alignment tool when it's inserted, it's not one of the better ones.
However, just make sure you can wiggle it equally in all directions, and you should be good to go.

Also, the splines in the clutch disc might not line up 100% with the splines on the input-shaft. This is usually not a problem unless they're exactly one half spline offset. Ask me how I know...