OZ 700 Install on Ls1 Rx7
05-22-2009, 06:27 PM
#21
I really think you're going to have to manually bleed the slave, the old fashioned way. Air bubbles trapped in the slave can't find their way up the hose, they're trapped at a point higher than the hose fitting.
I'd get a helper and do this before digging into the hydraulics.
And just to be clear, bleeding it means cracking the bleeder while a helper applies the clutch. Not putting the clutch pedal down and holding it there, then cracking the bleeder...this is not effective.
I'd get a helper and do this before digging into the hydraulics.
And just to be clear, bleeding it means cracking the bleeder while a helper applies the clutch. Not putting the clutch pedal down and holding it there, then cracking the bleeder...this is not effective.
05-22-2009, 06:34 PM
#22
You really need to scrounge up a helper, or buy one of those spiffy pressure bleeder rigs.
05-22-2009, 06:43 PM
#23
I'll bet dimes to dollars though that bleeding it this way isnt going to change anything but I'm willing to try anything. For the money I should just get a motive power bleeder
05-24-2009, 05:11 PM
#24
Got a hand from my girl friend today. She said she wanted a work out, I told her we were doing legs and to hop in the car and pump the pedal when I say so.
Bled the clutch the classic way with me under the car, crack the bleeder, her put the pedal to the floor and then tighten it back up. Then pump up the pedal again regain pressure and do it over and over. Pedal pressure was the exact same the whole time and again I could hear the fingers of the pressure plate creaking as the slave pushed against them.
So today I decided that because I could stop the wheels from spinning with the ebrake whie the engine can still idle in first, so I figure its not dragging that bad maybe theres a high spot on the clutch or something that if I take it for a drive around the block will smooth out (hopeful thinking) So I put the car in reverse and keep my foot on the clutch (you can see where this is going) and crank the car and as I crank the car it starts moving and then see yah later I'm headed out of the garag and back down my driveway faster than I like I hit the brakes and kill the engine and come to a stop. Thank god I just happened to have the wheel straight when I started the car or I woulda taken out the side of the garage. That woulda been a real bad day. Had to push the car back into the garage.
Deff not driveable and if something is off its WAY the **** off. Its not a minor adjustment sort of thing
I sent a guy an email on v8rx7forum.com who had an issue with the oz700
I asked him what happened and this is what he said
Hi
Basically what happend was they shipped the wrong clutch disc out with the unit. The ears on the disc made contact with the bellhousing and would stick. If you pull the disc back out, and if it is the same problem, you can see where the edges of it are making contact.
This happend some time ago but perhaps more than one of the mispacks made it out. According to my friend they were easy to contact and they also swapped the disc with no hassels.
My Friend travels quite a bit on contract work, but I can put you in touch with a friend of ours who was a lttle closer to the situation from start to finish than I was. His name is Ron and knows GM drivetrains really well.
Hope this helps, FWIW, after the right disc was installed the clutch performed very well.
BTW
I think there was a thread out on LS1tech about it, too
Well I guess either way it looks like I'm pulling the tranny again, but while I'm in there I'll check for that. Anyone have any ideas?
Bled the clutch the classic way with me under the car, crack the bleeder, her put the pedal to the floor and then tighten it back up. Then pump up the pedal again regain pressure and do it over and over. Pedal pressure was the exact same the whole time and again I could hear the fingers of the pressure plate creaking as the slave pushed against them.
So today I decided that because I could stop the wheels from spinning with the ebrake whie the engine can still idle in first, so I figure its not dragging that bad maybe theres a high spot on the clutch or something that if I take it for a drive around the block will smooth out (hopeful thinking) So I put the car in reverse and keep my foot on the clutch (you can see where this is going) and crank the car and as I crank the car it starts moving and then see yah later I'm headed out of the garag and back down my driveway faster than I like I hit the brakes and kill the engine and come to a stop. Thank god I just happened to have the wheel straight when I started the car or I woulda taken out the side of the garage. That woulda been a real bad day. Had to push the car back into the garage.
Deff not driveable and if something is off its WAY the **** off. Its not a minor adjustment sort of thing
I sent a guy an email on v8rx7forum.com who had an issue with the oz700
I asked him what happened and this is what he said
Hi
Basically what happend was they shipped the wrong clutch disc out with the unit. The ears on the disc made contact with the bellhousing and would stick. If you pull the disc back out, and if it is the same problem, you can see where the edges of it are making contact.
This happend some time ago but perhaps more than one of the mispacks made it out. According to my friend they were easy to contact and they also swapped the disc with no hassels.
My Friend travels quite a bit on contract work, but I can put you in touch with a friend of ours who was a lttle closer to the situation from start to finish than I was. His name is Ron and knows GM drivetrains really well.
Hope this helps, FWIW, after the right disc was installed the clutch performed very well.
BTW
I think there was a thread out on LS1tech about it, too
Well I guess either way it looks like I'm pulling the tranny again, but while I'm in there I'll check for that. Anyone have any ideas?
Last edited by sciff5; 05-24-2009 at 05:18 PM.
05-24-2009, 05:21 PM
#25
You ruled out the usual culprit, so it wasn't wasted time.
If any part of the rotating clutch assembly was in contact with the bellhousing, it'll be easy to spot...lots of aluminum filings and a freshly-milled ring around the interior.
Time to drop the trans. Again.
The only other thing that comes to mind would be possibly needing a shim behind the slave.
If any part of the rotating clutch assembly was in contact with the bellhousing, it'll be easy to spot...lots of aluminum filings and a freshly-milled ring around the interior.
Time to drop the trans. Again.
The only other thing that comes to mind would be possibly needing a shim behind the slave.
05-25-2009, 06:14 PM
#26
Just doing some brainstorming over on v8rx7forum.com
and another guys had an issue with his clutch install where he used lotite on the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel and I guess some of the loctite got on th clutch face and was holding the clutch disk to the pressure plate even though the clutch was released from the flywheel. I wouldn;t think it would cause this sort of issue but he said he had an isue similar to mine and it turned out to be that.
Another idea is that I may not be getting full pedal travel out of the MC. In RX7s the stock clutch MC is bolted to the firewall using flaared edges (like any MC) and the flared edges are at 45 degree angle. Most aftermarket MCs bolt in at a 90 degree angle to the ground. So if you mount the aftermarket MC to the stock bolt holes it sits cocked at a 45 degree angle. Its easy to fix this but for short money you can buy this lttle adapter plate that hinson makes.
http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-753...l-adapter.aspx
the plate bolts to the stock holes in the firewall and then aligns the aftermarket MC straight up and down the way it should be when you bolt the mc to the plate but in doing so it moves the MC away from the pedal by about a quarter inch or however thick the material is. Which meens you might lose that part of the pedal travel.
This was fine on a stock worn out clutch but because the new disk is like new that last quarter inch may just be enough to fully disengage the clutch. Textralia does say they want the cutch to start engaging almost right off the floor with a new clutch because the engagement point will move towards the center of the pedal travel as it wears. Hopeful thinking but I'm gonna pull that plate and bolt the mc directly to the firewall first before dropping the tranny again, its woth trying for the hours worth of time it will take.
and another guys had an issue with his clutch install where he used lotite on the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel and I guess some of the loctite got on th clutch face and was holding the clutch disk to the pressure plate even though the clutch was released from the flywheel. I wouldn;t think it would cause this sort of issue but he said he had an isue similar to mine and it turned out to be that.
Another idea is that I may not be getting full pedal travel out of the MC. In RX7s the stock clutch MC is bolted to the firewall using flaared edges (like any MC) and the flared edges are at 45 degree angle. Most aftermarket MCs bolt in at a 90 degree angle to the ground. So if you mount the aftermarket MC to the stock bolt holes it sits cocked at a 45 degree angle. Its easy to fix this but for short money you can buy this lttle adapter plate that hinson makes.
http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-753...l-adapter.aspx
the plate bolts to the stock holes in the firewall and then aligns the aftermarket MC straight up and down the way it should be when you bolt the mc to the plate but in doing so it moves the MC away from the pedal by about a quarter inch or however thick the material is. Which meens you might lose that part of the pedal travel.
This was fine on a stock worn out clutch but because the new disk is like new that last quarter inch may just be enough to fully disengage the clutch. Textralia does say they want the cutch to start engaging almost right off the floor with a new clutch because the engagement point will move towards the center of the pedal travel as it wears. Hopeful thinking but I'm gonna pull that plate and bolt the mc directly to the firewall first before dropping the tranny again, its woth trying for the hours worth of time it will take.
05-25-2009, 11:52 PM
#27
Ohh yeah I just wanted to make sure others with the textralia also had allen key pressure plate bolts. I tightened them as much as I could but I dont see how anyone could get close to 60lb/ft with a little allen key
I used loctite red on everything anyway.
I used loctite red on everything anyway.
05-26-2009, 05:08 AM
#28
There's a recipe for disaster. You buy an allen key socket, put it on your torque wrench, and do it properly...if you want good results.
05-26-2009, 10:21 PM
#29
So I'll be pulling the tranny anyway to make sure those are torqued to spec I know what will happen if one of them backs out. I also ordered a remote bleeder from tick performance, so installing the remote bleeder gives me another reason to pull the tranny even if I dont have to, to fix my current issue.
05-27-2009, 06:59 PM
#30
So I figured out what the issue was. I am running an adapter plate that bolts to the firewall on the engine side and takes the mc and takes it from a 45 degree angle and aligns it vertically.
Hinson Super Cars - MC Firewall Adapter
As you can see it has some considerable thickness. Thus pulling the pedal down and decreasing the total pedal stroke length thus not getting full travel and thus I'm assuming not full extension of the slave cylinder. So I pulled that POS outta there and bolted the MC directly to the firewall. Basically the clutch was half engaged at the floor before. Now it engages close to the floor but not right off the floor.
Everything seems really good thus far except for the fact that my clutch pedal travel is like a mile and a half from the top to the floor but the clutch is stupid easy to drive. You can slip it easily like stock and has stock style engagement. Pedal pressure is higher, but the longer pedal stroke makes it feel a little less stiff than it did before (I might be getting used to it to) I brought the car out without letting the permatex dry on the headers long enough and the exhaust sealed up around idle but then I brought it up on the highway and did some nice 1st 2nd 3rd gear roll and filled the car with exaust fumes. I really just need to put some v-bands on the headers. It was misting out so I couldent get on it much but I did get a couple 6k+ rpm shifts in to see if it would go into the next gear easily. My tuner told me theres high rpm engagement issues with these clutches and wanted to make sure I didnt have that issue. Doesnt look like it but I'll need to check again.
Also will need more traction to check how well the clutch grabs. Today I was spinning more than going. I wasnt even wot though and quick shifted into third and the back end stepped out a bit so I am guessing it is biting a lot harder than stock and I got none of that sticky pedal issue I had with the stock clutch even shifting pretty hard a couple times. Need more time to tell and need to redo the seal where the exhaust mates up to the headers, but other than that seems like a big improvement. Cant wait to get the slicks on the car.
Hinson Super Cars - MC Firewall Adapter
As you can see it has some considerable thickness. Thus pulling the pedal down and decreasing the total pedal stroke length thus not getting full travel and thus I'm assuming not full extension of the slave cylinder. So I pulled that POS outta there and bolted the MC directly to the firewall. Basically the clutch was half engaged at the floor before. Now it engages close to the floor but not right off the floor.
Everything seems really good thus far except for the fact that my clutch pedal travel is like a mile and a half from the top to the floor but the clutch is stupid easy to drive. You can slip it easily like stock and has stock style engagement. Pedal pressure is higher, but the longer pedal stroke makes it feel a little less stiff than it did before (I might be getting used to it to) I brought the car out without letting the permatex dry on the headers long enough and the exhaust sealed up around idle but then I brought it up on the highway and did some nice 1st 2nd 3rd gear roll and filled the car with exaust fumes. I really just need to put some v-bands on the headers. It was misting out so I couldent get on it much but I did get a couple 6k+ rpm shifts in to see if it would go into the next gear easily. My tuner told me theres high rpm engagement issues with these clutches and wanted to make sure I didnt have that issue. Doesnt look like it but I'll need to check again.
Also will need more traction to check how well the clutch grabs. Today I was spinning more than going. I wasnt even wot though and quick shifted into third and the back end stepped out a bit so I am guessing it is biting a lot harder than stock and I got none of that sticky pedal issue I had with the stock clutch even shifting pretty hard a couple times. Need more time to tell and need to redo the seal where the exhaust mates up to the headers, but other than that seems like a big improvement. Cant wait to get the slicks on the car.
05-27-2009, 07:24 PM
#32
Thanks for sticking with me through it man I really appreciate it. I am here doing this alone and everyone around me was kinda scratching their head. But it wasnt really a problem with a certain part or something I did, just an incompatibility of different parts from different manufacturers from different countries from different decades. Kinda part of the game with a swap like this 
I need to pull the tranny out at some point and install the remote bleeder I am waiting on and torque the flywheel bolts appropriatly, but for now I'm gonna run the car and get used to the setup, I am actually waiting for my old man to get back in town so I have a second set of hands next time I drop the tranny. Temporarily it should be fine. Like I said I tigtened them as much as I could and used red loctite.
I need to pull the tranny out at some point and install the remote bleeder I am waiting on and torque the flywheel bolts appropriatly, but for now I'm gonna run the car and get used to the setup, I am actually waiting for my old man to get back in town so I have a second set of hands next time I drop the tranny. Temporarily it should be fine. Like I said I tigtened them as much as I could and used red loctite.
