Tried clutch swap, I failed! Whats wrong?
10-17-2010, 05:31 PM
#21
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Spent all damn day taking the trans out and redoing everything. I used my old PP this time because the two measured different and I wanted to take out all the variables I could. I bent the retention fingers on the clutch fork to hold a little tighter...
SAME ISSUE! I can still shift fine when the car is off, but cannot go into any gear when the engine is running.
This has got to be related to air in the clutch hydraulics. I can't think of anything else. I'm going to try one of those hand vacuum pumps from AutoZone tomorrow. Any other ideas?
SAME ISSUE! I can still shift fine when the car is off, but cannot go into any gear when the engine is running.
This has got to be related to air in the clutch hydraulics. I can't think of anything else. I'm going to try one of those hand vacuum pumps from AutoZone tomorrow. Any other ideas?
10-17-2010, 07:29 PM
#23
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Yeah, the trans itself shifts fine.
I just realized that I was bleeding it wrong. I left the cap and diaphragm out of the master cylinder the whole time instead of take the cap and diaphragm off, pressing the actuator in the slave cylinder in, re-installing the diaphragm and cap, and then cycling the actuator rod in and out. Oops. I really wish they would have put a bleeder valve on these!
Going to try bleeding it correctly tomorrow, and if that doesn't work I'm going to try a MityVac.
I just realized that I was bleeding it wrong. I left the cap and diaphragm out of the master cylinder the whole time instead of take the cap and diaphragm off, pressing the actuator in the slave cylinder in, re-installing the diaphragm and cap, and then cycling the actuator rod in and out. Oops. I really wish they would have put a bleeder valve on these!
Going to try bleeding it correctly tomorrow, and if that doesn't work I'm going to try a MityVac.
Last edited by 1quickTransAm; 10-17-2010 at 08:08 PM.
10-18-2010, 05:58 PM
#24
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Which side of the clutch faces the flywheel? I remember my RAM instructions mentioned that on our cars the disk is backwards than with most applications, but the AutoZone replacement clutch that I had in said "Flywheel this side", so I put mine in that that side towards the flywheel without remembering how it was installed.
Is this the correct orientation, because mine is the other way around (I have an LT1):
Is this the correct orientation, because mine is the other way around (I have an LT1):
Last edited by 1quickTransAm; 10-18-2010 at 06:36 PM.
10-18-2010, 06:33 PM
#28
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As far as I can tell they are. I read somewhere that someone had their skip shift and reverse lockout switched, but I looked at mine and there was no way I could have messed that up. When I ran the wire loom to the back, but there was one coming out the middle of the loom right near the skip shift, and two plugs coming out the back like this:
The two at the back (reverse lockout and speed sensor) have different shapes and can't be switched.
The two at the back (reverse lockout and speed sensor) have different shapes and can't be switched.
10-18-2010, 07:53 PM
#30
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There was another guy that had a problem like this and it was the clutch disk itself. Some of the Rams are hit and miss and they are not the right thickness
10-18-2010, 07:57 PM
#31
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I saw that too and measured my RAM clutch disk when I had the trans out again and it is right about 0.325" average with thinnest being 0.316" and thickest being 0.332". From what I have found that seems about right. EDIT: This clutch did not work. 0.332" was too thick.
That is a lot thicker than the used AutoZone clutch I removed (0.280"-0.290"), but is close to what I thought it was supposed to be.
That is a lot thicker than the used AutoZone clutch I removed (0.280"-0.290"), but is close to what I thought it was supposed to be.
Last edited by 1quickTransAm; 04-08-2011 at 07:27 AM.
10-18-2010, 08:10 PM
#32
Also the springs/hubs face the flywheel, so the disc should be laying FLAT/EVEN on the pressure plate.
Doubt master/slave went bad during the swap but hard to say. Mine have 160+k and 3 clutches and work fine. I believe both brand new pre-bled are under 200$.
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=1208
10-18-2010, 08:14 PM
#33
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Yes, the pedal feels okay (maybe a little light but I don't remember for sure).
I am pretty sure that the slave is lined up with the clutch fork correctly, especially since I didn't fully seat the metal cover between the slave and the bellhousing until I saw that it was correctly aligned, and I have redone this about 5 times with no change.
I do not "hear the clutch disengage", but don't think I've ever heard that on my car. Maybe I'll lay under it while someone else presses the clutch pedal.
I put the clutch on in the orientation you mentioned. And the master cylinder and slave worked fine when I pulled the trans so I find it odd that they would be bad now, just as you said.
I am pretty sure that the slave is lined up with the clutch fork correctly, especially since I didn't fully seat the metal cover between the slave and the bellhousing until I saw that it was correctly aligned, and I have redone this about 5 times with no change.
I do not "hear the clutch disengage", but don't think I've ever heard that on my car. Maybe I'll lay under it while someone else presses the clutch pedal.
I put the clutch on in the orientation you mentioned. And the master cylinder and slave worked fine when I pulled the trans so I find it odd that they would be bad now, just as you said.
10-19-2010, 06:45 AM
#34
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I am starting to wonder if my transmission wasn't actually the issue and if maybe it was actually the clutch hydraulics going out originally that caused me to be unable to shift when driving.
Before pulling the trans originally, I could drive fine without issue except for every once in a while I would be driving and all the sudden be unable to shift for a few minutes (usually after a short stint of "spirited driving"). Does this sound like it could have been the hydraulics?
Before pulling the trans originally, I could drive fine without issue except for every once in a while I would be driving and all the sudden be unable to shift for a few minutes (usually after a short stint of "spirited driving"). Does this sound like it could have been the hydraulics?
10-22-2010, 06:44 PM
#35
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Alright, so it is clear that the clutch isn't disengaging. Since the hydraulics worked okay before pulling trans and new clutch install, I was hard pressed to believe that they were the source of the issue. I know that some people have had issues with the pressure plate moving enough to disengage the clutch, so I figured that if I machined some material off the slave cylinder cover that it would push the clutch fork further and give more disengagement.
I machined off 1/8" from the back to hopefully result in more pressure plate travel, but STILL NO CHANGE. I still can't shift with the engine running.
At this point I am thinking that it HAS TO BE HYDRAULICS. Thinking about ordering a new master/slave assembly from GM. Thoughts?
10-22-2010, 07:42 PM
#37
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I appreciate the feedback on the stock system. I have heard about the Tick adjustable master cylinder fixing it, but I am reluctant to try it. I would love to get my money back for the RAM as of now...
10-23-2010, 01:26 PM
#38
IMHO you should not have machined the slave spacer/mount down. Moving forward either use 1/8" washers between it and slave to restore to normal spacing or buy another one.
By chance is the plastic cup still on the slave piston?
you mentioned you "bent" the clutch fork prongs in...if you had to do that...I would have replaced the fork first.
you could just put in the entire old clutch to see if it works. if it does than the RAM, for whatever reason, is bad. if still a issue than hydraulics or tranny. the hydraulics being the more likely. D&D is a solid shop but "something" could be wrong with the tranny....I don't think so but after installing the old clutch that did work and still a issue might look into tranny.
By chance is the plastic cup still on the slave piston?
you mentioned you "bent" the clutch fork prongs in...if you had to do that...I would have replaced the fork first.
you could just put in the entire old clutch to see if it works. if it does than the RAM, for whatever reason, is bad. if still a issue than hydraulics or tranny. the hydraulics being the more likely. D&D is a solid shop but "something" could be wrong with the tranny....I don't think so but after installing the old clutch that did work and still a issue might look into tranny.
10-23-2010, 02:06 PM
#39
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I also have a 1/8" spacer to put it back to where it was (really easy to do this just to check). No worries there.
Yes, the plastic cup is still on the slave piston and it is properly seated in the clutch fork. And the part I bent on the clutch fork would not effect the function at all, just helps ensure that it stays engaged prior to the slave being installed. I bent these guys:
Putting in the old clutch again was what I was thinking about doing next. I really think it is the Ram clutch disk, especially considering how many other people have had this issue.
Yes, the plastic cup is still on the slave piston and it is properly seated in the clutch fork. And the part I bent on the clutch fork would not effect the function at all, just helps ensure that it stays engaged prior to the slave being installed. I bent these guys:
Putting in the old clutch again was what I was thinking about doing next. I really think it is the Ram clutch disk, especially considering how many other people have had this issue.