TripleTransAm

My most humble apologies if this has been beaten to death before, but I honestly have spent most of today poring over this forum and trying different searches ("screeches" etc., looking through the manual transmission section, etc.) on a really slow mobile connection as I am currently temporarily overseas.

My totally stock 1998 WS6 Trans Am M6 has recently become hard to shift into gear hot or cold and has gotten to the point where there is a nasty metal-on-metal sort of screeching sound. Here's a short video with some indication of when the noise comes in (seems to be mostly with the clutch pedal pressed all the way):


The clutch grabs as well as ever from the looks of it (you can see the car jerk against the parking brake when I allow the clutch to grab briefly now and then). In summary, the screeching noise seems to happen at some point after the clutch pedal is to the floor and come sometimes be provoked by nudging the shifter into any gear... it can be quite hard to get the car into gear now.

The car has just over 70k miles on it, and most of those were easy highway. The car did see literally just a couple of friendly club drag events early on, and I've never even experienced the "pedal stuck to the floor" issue that seems to be plaguing the early cars (from what I've read here).

I'm told (by non-F-body people) that it's the pilot bearing and I should just change out the clutch at this mileage. Here is where I need some advice...


The car is practically daily driven. This includes a lot of stop/go traffic which means clutch work. I have been really happy with the clutch feel all these years. I'm hesitant to change out the clutch (unless this noise turns out to be worse than just the pilot bearing or anything else you guys can home in on) for this reason.

Nonetheless, I'm checking RockAuto and I see two part numbers for a clutch kit.
AC Delco #381408 {#19182561, 88989448} replaces 88989448 which is listed as a "PLATE KIT,CLU PRESS & DRVN (W/ CVR) ; INCLUDES FLYWHEEL"
AC Delco #383564 {#19241585} which is listed as the same thing but has the additional text "optional" as well as "non-self adjusting design".

I'm not sure what the difference is between both of these, nor which one would be a stock replacement for my car? I also don't know if such a kit includes a pilot bearing, I get the impression I might as well replace the slave and flush/bleed the whole mess while I'm at it? What about throwout bearing, should I go for that too? Flywheel bolts? I'm so unfamiliar with this, it's plain ridiculous!

I'm aware of some Ls2/Ls7 kits being sold here and I TOTALLY appreciate the need for them, however my scenario is one where the clutch feel and friction point need to remain 100% as they've been for the past 14 years because of the way the car is used. I'm really trying to avoid changing the car's personality for everyday driving, it's been a great car for me all these years.


Thanks in advance for any help and guidance/feedback... this is a new area for me since I've never ever had to do any clutch work on any of the manual transmission cars I've ever owned! (admittedly, they were all basic low/mid-performance commuter cars)

TripleTransAm

Does anyone know the difference between the LS1 clutch kit 12581650 and GM# 19182561?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The sound could certainly be related to a worn or damaged pilot bearing. The only way to know for sure is to remove the transmission and inspect all componets. As you can imagine it is better to be certain than to assume.

Based on the info included in the copy and paste I would say that the first option (19182561) is like the OE SAC (Self Adjusting cover) and the other (19241585) is a non-SAC option. Both are OEM-like replacement parts. The non-SAC unit eliminates the ratcheting adjustment system which can hang-up and lead to issues when used aggressively or in cars with higher-output. I can't comment on the quality of the disc or other components though. Both of these should fit your car but I would opt for the non-SAC unit because it will be both more consistent and allow for a better knowledge of when the clutch is worn in the future because it doesn't adjust plate depth relatie to disc wear. If you are interested in something with greater capacity and performance than check the link below and let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks

http://www.specclutch.com/cars/Chevy/Camaro/1998/Single

Our Stage 1 clutch is the closest to stock option and it uses a stronger (higher clamp-load pressure-plate and higher friction-coefficient disc material.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

From my experience, pilot bushing issues only present themselves when you are shifting gears. A worn pilot bushing/bearing will make a scuffing NON metallic sound and you will feel a fast vibration come up through the shifter. Again this is only during shifting from one gear to another.

When the clutch is not being pressed, I have never seen a bad pilot bushing symptom.

GMRACER13

iTrader: (1)

Bad throwout bearing. Might as well replace the pilot bearing while you're in there though.

TripleTransAm

Good info, thanks! I'm probably going to do the whole mess, slave and all. I don't feel like going in there more often than I have to! :-)

I've actually got a whole 19182561 assembly in my garage that I picked up a long long time ago. It doesn't match up with the 12581650 that I have come across as being the stock replacement (this is probably one of the LAST stock LS1 Trans Ams in existence, LOL!). I did find a secondary Delco number 381408 on the box, and I'm wondering whether this is the "LS6" kit or something else?

I've read a few negative comments while searching, from people having gone to the LS6 clutch. What's the experience here in this group? Any change in pedal feel / contact point?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

I have personally seen a pilot make noise while the pedal is depressed. Whereas a TOB sound would normally be present when the pedal is released. As noted, at this point all you can really do is pull the trans and take a look. There is no really benefit to opting for the stock LS6 clutch. If you are looking for an upgrade then you really need to consider your aftermarket options. Though you seemed to want to keep it as stock as possible...

TripleTransAm

No one has any comment about the different part numbers? Both appear to be the self-adjusting, both appear applicable to LS1, what's the diff?

Edit: Thanks Jeremy, no need for upgrades here. The car spends so much time in regular everyday traffic, I can't afford to have it become a pain to drive. Or bring any complications to deviating from stock. It's the compromise to make when owning/driving a bunch of F-bodies of different generations, I can't afford a weekend-only warrior so to speak.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

No problem at all! Maybe I am miss-reading your original post but the second part number references "non-self adjusting design" which seems to indicate that it does not have the SAC mechanism.

TripleTransAm

Agreed, I threw that one out once I made the decision to stick with the stock type SAC. So it was really down to understand what was the difference between the 12181650 and 19182561/381408.

SladeX

I never noticed a difference in clutch pedal feel with the LS7 kit. There was only the initial "low" engagement with the first 50 miles then once broken in, it was exactly like stock. Even drove a friend's car with an LS6 kit and the LS7 was lighter in feel. That combo lasted me 65k miles over 3.5 years from stock power to 349rwhp.

I DD my car since I got it, winter too since 05. Did a 2 hr commute in traffic every day for 4 years with the car. 30 miles, 2 hrs each way. You can imagine the stop/go in that mess.

I'm driving a tick master/spec 3+ now.

TWINTURBOLS1

Bringing this thread up from the dead but did you ever find out what this noise is caused by? My 2001 WS6 with 88,000 miles is making the same exact noise when you push in the clutch and goes away when you release it. It also has this very bad grinding noise every when I'm coming to a stop and will go away once i put the car in neutral.

Blake Chambers