The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

EDIT:

Clutch had an unforeseen mechanical issue.

Monster replaced the entire clutch and made things right with me.

stevo92z28

iTrader: (22)

If you turn off car, put it in 1st, and start the car what happens? Does it release super close to floor, does car lurch with clutch in?

Without knowing the answer to those questions sounds like air in the lines. I know that's not the response you wanted to hear.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

I'm headed to the shop first thing in the morning to check myself.

I think the mechanic said the wheels WERE moving in gear, clutch pedal pressed, when it was on the lift.

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

Outside of bleeding the only thing I can think of is that the TOB provided by Monster was not used. It is taller and rounded. You have to take the TOB off of the stock slave and replace it with the one Monster provides.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

I didn't know Monster needed a shim. I've seen posts from sponsors and Monster reps stating their clutches are designed without shims.

If one were provided I don't know if the shop used it.

Regardless, I'm telling them to take it apart today.

I am NOT gonna wait 2 weeks for my car to be in the shop just so they can go back and forth with Monster guessing the fix. That's unacceptable on a $1300 clutch.

If its not a bleed or install problem this really makes me second guess my choice in clutches. Never had this problem with Textralia.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

It's getting into gear today and driving around.

Gonna see how she drives for the next few days.

I was concerned with the fact that the shop tried calling Steve a couple times and left messages with Eddie and voicemail but Steve did not call them back.

Guess he's busy.

Hopefully the clutch is good now. I hope.

got-a-ls1

iTrader: (12)

one thing i noticed when i bled my clutch was that i had to bleed it in 30 sec intervals. its not like brakes where you can pump em up, bleed em and repeat. if you do it fast back to back almost no fluid would come out the consecutive time. i dont know if that was only my setup or what... but i had the speed bleeder and taking time between bleedings it worked perfectly

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

It doesn't require a shim. They provide a special throw out bearing(with a stock slave) that is taller and is rounded on the end as the PP fingers are completely flat.

Steve is incredibly busy but they stand by their product.

1 FMF

iTrader: (1)

well if you are using the oem master cylinder and oem slave cylinder, from what I just found out it seems the travel on the slave is only 0.4". Only info i could find on pressure plates was from RAM's website that says their pressure plates require 0.5" minimum of pressure plate finger depression. So unless i am mistaken, with an f-body oem master & slave combination there is no way to fully disengage an aftermarket clutch. so the question to ask, either the guy doing the work or monster clutch, is how much does the slave need to depress the pressure plate fingers to disengage the clutch. and also what is the travel of the slave you are using- with the transmission out and slave removed you can hook it up to the master and work the clutch to verify. I know my math was right, just not sure on master cylinder dimensions- i was going with a ~0.75" bore (1.9cm) and my clutch on my 2002 strokes the master 26mm at most I measured it. And i measured a slave i picked up from autozone, part #13207. Even with the tick master cylinder which is supposed to be a 7/8" bore i calculate only a max of 0.545" of slave travel which would work on a new clutch if you set it up right but with clutch wear you would still have problems (going from my 0.5" number from RAM's website).
using a different throw out bearing would not fix anything, it all has to do with insufficient movement of the slave because of the dimensions of the stock hydraulics.

typo: "Account for that plus another to 0.2" of clutch wear over time and you need a slave that can move 0.7"." i said that previously and was incorrect. Meant to say you need to know how much travel the pressure plate requires to disengage the clutch, and the slave needs to travel that amount which was 0.5" for my example. but with clutch wear the fingers come out more so you need a slave that can also retract an extra 0.2" and not bottom out. but anytime you depress the clutch the slave (using my example) would need to travel only the 0.5" to always disengage the clutch. the slave #13207 I measured had a total of an inch of travel, from bottoming it out by hand to letting the spring push the throwout bearing all the way out so as long as it's located properly when installed it would work.

64post

iTrader: (5)

This why they make power bleeders. Get an extra cap for your reservoir (brake master) and make a bleeder cap with an air fitting, to hell bleeding it manually. It sounds like there is just not enough disengagement. Try a different brand of slave cyl. if that doesn't work

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

Clutch is not disengaging.

Can't even get it into reverse when car is on and warm.

Barely get it into 1st when warm.

When in gear pedal on the floor car moves.

Steve actually suggested to the mechanic that we do a drill mod on the Master; which I thought odd since they were specific about using the stock Master and Monster supplied stock Slave.

Is this thing gonna need a shim at this point even though Monster advertises no?

I'm about ticked off at this point with almost $2k into a clutch including install etc. and can't even enjoy my freaking car.

Blackbird-WS6

iTrader: (15)

you and me both. same brand, diff clutch..... enough said.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

Good info here. Thank you.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

This thing needs a damn shim. No way around it.

The only aftermarket clutch I've used in over 12 years that doesn't require a shim. Well; it does.

Can't get it into reverse. Put it in gear (IF I can) with pedal on the FLOOR and I'm moving upwards of 3 mph. Couple inches of slop at the bottom before it grabs. Super light pedal because no pressure.

It is NOT air in the system. The plate has no space to travel.

blue99fbody

iTrader: (5)

You did put the required piece on the new throwout bearing didn't u? Do you have the right style throw out bearing on it so that it fits snug? Haven't had a issue from mine I love it its a bad *** piece

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

Yup. Everything supplied by Monster.

Last time we talked to Steve was Friday morning. We've called 3 times since then and he has STILL not returned a call.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

It's Tuesday, I wasn't here Saturday and I spent pretty much all day yesterday in the machine shop, so, I apologize I didn't get the messages until this morning to call the guys at the install shop back. Regardless, any of my guys that answer the phone can help him out, no need to talk directly to me.

So am I correct in assuming that, according to your posts above, the clutch is intermittently working? If it's bled properly and the installation is done correctly it will release. Monster twins only require .250" of travel for full release, factory hydraulics are more than adequate. We all know the Fbody hydraulics are prone to failure and issues, it's not uncommon to see guys having disengagement issues with them.

As far as shims, DO NOT SHIM A MONSTER TWIN/TRIPLE - PERIOD. These clutches are hand assembled and triple checked for holding capacity and lift/release before they leave here. We do this for numerous reasons but mainly because a twin disc is a pretty involved piece and if you don't know what you're doing you can screw it up pretty easily.

I'm on the phone with Mark right now, I'll get this settled and we'll go from there.

As far as getting a hold of me, shoot me an email as that's the easiest way. It doesn't matter where I'm at, I ALWAYS get them.

Just got off the phone with Mark - The guys that you have working on your car are not a performance shop. The questions I was asking them were basic questions that most guys that deal with 4th gen modding should know and they didn't. I'm not judging them, it just makes diagnostics a little tedious. I shot them instructions on what to measure and look for and I explained to them that email is the best means of contact for me and they said they understood - the good news is they seem very interested in getting this settled and are very friendly!

If you have any other questions feel free to give me a call or shoot me an email, I make myself as available as possible to any and all that want to contact me.

In the end, we'll get it handled.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

They were doing what they were told by "Eddie," and whomever else they spoke with on the phone, told them to do; which was speak to you directly.

When I called Friday afternoon, to paraphrase, Eddie specifically told me he doesn't "know about that stuff" and that I "need to speak to Steve." Otherwise I'd have been more than happy to talk to ANYONE that could resolve this catastrophic issue

Every part installed was as per the instructions and parts provided by Monster.

The clutch has never fully disengaged from the start even after bleeding the clutch with bottles and bottles of fluid.

The pedal has had the same resistance feel Thursday afternoon AND Friday afternoon after repeated bleeding of the system; which is an unusually soft feeling pedal with slop at the floor (normally indicative of not fully disengaging).

I've driven the car less than 55 miles since Friday night. Very brief trips each outing less than 10 miles at a time and almost all at night (coolant temps never exceeded 188* on my aftermarket digital gauge).

I just got off the phone with the Shop and they told me that you (Steve) called them back today and they sent you pictures of the clutch and you requested the clutch boxed up and shipped back to you.

The Shop called me to get permission to do so before sending the clutch at which point I called your company immediately to find out the details as to why it needs to go back.

The representative that answered put me on a brief hold and said he needed to "talk to Steve" because he didn't have the information.

When he got back on the phone he tells me it's because one of the discs is cracked "probably from getting too hot because it wasn't disengaging maybe" (paraphrasing again).

At the end of that call, I called the Shop back and authorized them to ship the clutch back to you.

True, the Firehawk is not at Vengeance Racing, Texas Speed, etc. but it's a D &D T56 tranny and a beautiful Twin Disc Clutch. It might make for diagnosis and questioning difficult as you say, but its still just a T56 and a clutch.

Had this been internal motor work on my 402" I would've flown my Race Mechanic up from Fort Lauderdale.

I just want my car fixed and running without it taking weeks to do so. I've spent a decent sum of money thus far obviously.

That being said, I like to say that if the Space Shuttle can blow up, ANY part can fail or have an an unforeseeable defect (stuff happens sometimes).

Thank you for your time and I hope it gets resolved soon

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

This would be what I was referencing about the intermittent workings of the clutch.

I got the pictures in an email and the heat that was caused by the lack of disengagement did crack the discs, that's not paraphrasing, that's what happened. It does make it difficult, no matter who's clutch it is, to get the information required when the person on the other end isn't familiar with the setup.

Regardless, we'll get it back here and put it through it's paces and will get to the bottom of it. I apologize you had issues with the clutch and I will get it handled.

I'm still waiting on them to get me the weight of the package and their address so I can make a FedEx label to email to them. If you can get a hold of them to expedite this that would be awesome!

Thanks again for your patience!

BALLSS

OP

putting a gallon or 20 gallons of fluid through the system does not mean it is free of air. If, for example, the MC is at an angle which makes the "feed" side of it lower it will not bleed if there was an air bubble trapped above the feed from the resovoir.

I am not saying your issue is not clutch related, Steve will address that when he get the unit back. But a hydraulic system that is not bled causing the clutch not to disengage and running the car that way, even for a short time, will generate a great deal of heat which will glaze and/or crack the disc material

I encourage you, or really the shop doing the work, to take a close look at the hydraulics.

I just did my McLeod twin disc clutch install and put in the new (larger than stock) .81 mm MC. My car is not a f-body but I use "F-Body" compatable componets. My MC installs at roughly a 60-70 degree angle making the MC feed side on the bottom. No matter how long I tried bleeding, even with a Mighty Vac, it would not bleed resulting in clutch not disengageing and having to force it in gear. I had to pull the MC, which in my car ment removing the custom fabricated clutch pedal assembly, and "bench" bleeding it which allowed the "high" part of the MC to be in a position that let all the air out.

Another issue with multi disc clutches is the "stack height" needed between the bottom disc and floater plate. If Monster, like McLeod, has shims specific to the stands that hold the floater and they somehow got mixed or mis matched during the install that would also cause issues like you have regarding disengagement. As **** as I was in marking and keeping these shims in order because I sent the unit to be balanced (neutral) to a machine shop I did FU this part on install and experienced disengagement issues. Pulled coutch out to find I had put 2 sets of shims on one stack....my bad. Re-installed and all was good.

I hope between Monster and your shop you get your issue resolved. I can say a working "twin" disc clutch is great